petazulu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:32 am

NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:41 am

Why hasn't jetblue started services to Houston and Dallas from NYC. The market is huge on those routes and is dominated by the cartel carriers we all love. I want to go to Houston around April 20th and a round trip direct flight clost well over $1000 dollars. Some fares are in the $1800 range! WTF? This trip is over 4 weeks away. The cheapest option is Air Tran via Atlanta as well as a couple of inbetween options on the other majors.

Continental and American absolutely rake you over the coals on these routes and it is unacceptable. JetBlue could fill several flights daily to and from these cities. So could Airtran and others. What is taking so long? This is why people develop a serious axe to grind with the majors. They complain about LCC's, yet charge outrageous fares on any route that the LCC's do not fly.

Anyone have any ideas or thoughts on this? Pleas Jetblue- come and help us. This is a huge potential market. Think of it as ATA for the NYC Chicago run. Those guys have done wonders for us all.
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:43 am

When I look, I do not see the elevated fares you suggest

J
 
petazulu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:32 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:47 am

Leaving NYC (any airport) on April 20th, returning NYC (any airport) on April 23rd. Any time of day on a direct flight. Cheapest fare is over $1900. What do you see?
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:49 am

IMHO, the best that they would do is one daily flight.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 2895
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:49 am

I just found rt leaving 4/20 out of LGA for $300.
It sounds like you just want us to think the major's are charging alot.
 
N670UW
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:55 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:51 am

B6 could probably do very well on these routes. The O&D is tremendous, and there is little current low-fare competition.

***

Funny, however, I found EWR-IAH around 4/20 for $273 on US (connecting in CLT or PIT), while FL is $338.



670
 
trey
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 11:28 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:51 am

AA from JFK via DFW for 392
 
COTXDFW777AA
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:36 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:53 am

Why don't you keep Jetblue to your self. We are doing fine with Delta, Continental, American (both HQs in Texas) and Southwest.

-COTXDFW777AA

Texas- it's like a whole different country!
 
petazulu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:32 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:55 am

I refer to direct routes. The market is huge and can support many many direct (nonstop) routes. Why should it cost $1900 to fly non-stop between 2 of the 3 largest cities in the USA? There is not reason I should have to connect through Pittsburgh, Dallas, Atlanta, etc to fly this routing. I can understand a premium for direct service- but a $1500 + dollar premium! 4 weeks out? That's insane and demonstrative of the problem with the major carriers IMHO.
 
COTXDFW777AA
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:36 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:58 am

Seems like the problem with the majors carriers, is the Lccs. IMHO

Texas- it's like a whole different country!
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4888
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:58 am

I think we've already answered your question in one of the last posts- JFK-DFW for $392.
So what are you complaining about? That even lincludes MRTC, something you won't find on JetBlue's latter half of the cabin. (See www.seatguru.com for details).
R
 
petazulu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:32 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:58 am

Trey- you are right about JFK- Dallas. That was my fault. Still- if you want to fly through LGA Direct its $1000. Quite high in my experience. Lets focus on Houston then- what gives?

I am not trying to be antagonizing here. I am not married to the LCC idea at all. Any airline that can come in and charge less than that would be acceptable- how about $600? seems more reasonable to me.

[Edited 2004-03-11 01:00:39]
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:01 am

Petazulu-a lack of a Saturday stay hurts your case also...I am flying LGA-IAH on 4/22 (returning 4/26), and would be paying $325 through ORD if I wasn't on a free ticket (on United)...I do that route all the time, and Houston is the highest-fare major city from New York City in the United States...NYC-Houston is BEGGING for Southwest or jetBlue service...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
JFKviaPHX
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:31 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:35 am

541.40 from EWR to HOU on CO. This is the lowest price direct I found. I get 313 form JFk to DFW but 1600+ for LGA to DFW. That is crazy.
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:40 am

It's simple.
JetBlue to MSY then WN to HOU...same for the return.

I have a friend who is an independent contractor that does it monthly for less than $400 rt.
 
COAB767
Posts: 1313
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:32 pm

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:45 am

Petzalu, exactly where were u getting ur fare information? There is no way it can cost $1900 for an economy class ticket from NYC-Houston/Dallas unless of course your flying first class.
Continental Micronesia: "Fly With The Warmth Of Paradise"
 
CALMSP
Posts: 2895
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:48 am

continental.com from 4/20-4/25 is rt out of LGA-IAH $313. That is pretty cheap. You should take that up.
 
ssides
Posts: 3248
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:58 am

You guys are forgetting key element: the dates Petazulu has inserted have no Saturday night stay. That is key -- the fares are assuming he's a business traveler.

If he comes back on Sunday the 25th instead of Friday the 23rd, then he could get a ticket for $271 on AA, non-stop LGA-DFW.

As far as the JetBlue situation is concerned, they are still very small. So far, they have focused primarily on leisure destinations. As far as the Texas-NYC market is concerned, the business travelers who frequent this route are, for the most part, fiercely loyal to AA and CO. They like the non-stops, they like AAdvantage and OnePass, and they like the possibility of being upgraded. Plus, the New York market is one of the most lucrative in the country. I'd never pay these fares, but the frequent flyers on these routes don't either -- their employer (investment bank, oil company, etc). pay them.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
warren747sp
Posts: 979
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:51 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:03 am

Why fly JetBlue at all and export jobs to France?
The major carriers have pretty much matched them on fares on virtually all routes.
I say keep the jobs here in this country.!
747SP
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8545
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:08 am

American would trounce JetBlue at DFW. The only other way into the metroplex is DAL, and the Wright Amendment takes care of that. JetBlue didn't fare too well against Delta at ATL, mega-hubs are tough shells to crack.

Besides, most people in Dallas have not even heard of JetBlue and the DFW-JFK market is well served by AA.
 
petazulu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:32 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:31 am

I appreciate all of your responses. I am not a ra ra Jetblue champion, however the LCC's have show that the Saturday night stay requirement is probably the majors undoing and may have given rise to the SW's, Air Tran's, etc. I looked for these fares on Expedia.com

My trip is for business. I work for a small company- we don't pay 1900 in any situation. I am sure there are others just like me who would gladly take up an alternative direct flight. Doesn't the price desparity between $1900 and $248 seem unreasonably harsh? I can see a walkup- or short notice fare this high- but over one month away? That just makes me ANGRY. It's like the dark ages - if I was Jetblue- I'd look that up and start my service next week offering $400 dollar roundtrips and $600 walkup fares on 3 roundtrips per day. They have quite a little following in the biggest city in the US.

Sure, CO would hack at their fares- but the Jetblue gig would be able to fill a few planes per day just off of people who prefer TV's or JFK.

It's happenned to NYC-LA area markets. All of you naysayers pointed to the same reasons- fiercely loyal FF'ers (not $1000 loyal), more frequency, etc.
Jetblue, SW, ATA, America West have all shown that it can be done. I say attack Texas! Do the same thing!

JFKviaPHX,
Where did you find that flight? I'll book it tomorrow!
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 3932
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:33 am

First of all, you guys are raking the gut who started this thread over coals for no reason. He is absolutely right!

Forget fares, how about schedule?
If I want to fly from JFK to IAH, what are my options. I do believe one daily flight on CO with a 737. Now is that fair?!?! Is it right that the nation's largest int'l gateway and largest airport in the nation's largest city would have one flight a day to Houston?!?!
And why is this? Because CO wants me to use their hub in Newark. It is a nice hub indeed, but it's wrong to screw people like that. Especially considering the population of Queens, Brooklyn, and Long Island, which uses JFK.

Then let's look at DFW from JFK.
Two flights a day on an MD 80. And lets not forget the stellar RJ service blessed on JFK from Delta. Is that right??
How dare Delta? Who the hell are they to make a nonstop flight from NYC to DFW on an RJ! That flight was flown with L1011s in the days of Pan Am. Do you think for a second that there is only demand for an RJ between JFK and DFW once a day?

As for you guys who say u don't need a LCC in Texas--that's great. But guess what, we love our JetBlue here in NY. That's how they became the largest carrier at New York's largest airport in 4 years.
When they do start the service--which we all know they will--you can rest assured that both DL and AA will put some 757s on the route.
And as for my beloved CO, I am sure they will do better than one flight a day in that horrendous aircraft Boeing calls a 737!

That's why B6 is making money and CO, DL, and AA are fighting for their lives.
 
N670UW
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:55 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 am

That's why B6 is making money and CO...are fighting for their lives

CO isn't exactly fighting for their life. CO is the healthiest and strong financially of the network carriers, and reported profits twice in 2003.

And lets not forget the stellar RJ service blessed on JFK from Delta

If DL's mainline flights filled up, there wouldn't be the RJ problem. Obviously the flights weren't going out with satisfactory loads.

That flight was flown with L1011s in the days of Pan Am

Yeah, and look where Pan Am is now.


670
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2852
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:39 am

Why fly JetBlue at all and export jobs to France?
The major carriers have pretty much matched them on fares on virtually all routes.
I say keep the jobs here in this country.!


So employing 5,000 Americans means nothing to you?

JetBluefan1
 
COTXDFW777AA
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:36 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:49 am

Jfklganyc
Hold up ....."That's why B6 is making money and CO, DL, and AA are fighting for their lives." Umm Continental is not "fighting" for there lives by any means, and neither is Delta.

"I am sure they will do better than one flight a day in that horrendous aircraft Boeing calls a 737!"
Horrendous!? Harsh words for the number one selling aircraft family of all time.

"How dare Delta? Who the hell are they to make a nonstop flight from NYC to DFW on an RJ!"
Who the hell are you to demand a larger aircraft! Research and you will see they fly a 757 to LGA at least once a day.

"As for you guys who say u don't need a LCC in Texas--that's great."
It is called Southwest and if you don't know it is based at DAL.

"If I want to fly from JFK to IAH, what are my options. I do believe one daily flight on CO with a 737. Now is that fair?!?!"
Why fly any bigger aircraft when you fly 777s to an airport that serves the same area.

-COTXDFW777AA

Texas- it's like a whole different country!
 
warren747sp
Posts: 979
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:51 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:51 am

Yes, except that most of them are low-paying service jobs.
Machinist jobs in the manufacturing sector is worth much more !
747SP
 
User avatar
coronado
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 1999 9:42 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:06 pm

I too work for a small business (my own) and when I have to fly NWA to SAN I can get a good fare if I fly out on a Saturday and come back on Wed thereby meeting the Saturday night stay requirment.

Since I would rather spend Saturday and part of Sunday with my wife and daughters I book on F9 connecting in DEN and while it takes me an extra 1 1/2 hours each way I save a few hundred dollars.

While all the bean counters at the majors think on how to force businessmen to pay higher fares by sticking to these silly Sat night requirements businessment think with their wallets and are thus giving LCC's a chance to show that there is not a heck of a lot of difference between service on a major and service on a LCC.

And I will give NWA credit--- their advance purchase business flex fares are a good first step toward pricing tickets based for advance purchase business flyers on a more rational basis. Now if they just get rid of the Sat night stay they will remove a lot of the reasons why so many business travellers are willing to even look at LCC's. If this were to happen it would remove a lot of the reasons for the growing success of the LCC's. I wonder which one of the big 5 will give up on this Sat night stay requirement first? UAL, AA, DL, CO or NWA?
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
ssides
Posts: 3248
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:16 pm

Why fly JetBlue at all and export jobs to France?

What are you talking about ?!?
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 3932
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:17 pm

I know WN is based in Texas. I was referring to the guy who said that "we don't need B6 in Texas."

I am also very well aware of DL's LGA flight schedule considering I live 2 miles from the airport and feel the vibrations of landing aircraft every 90 seconds.
I am pointing out JFK! It was all based on JFK!
And if B6 starts service from JFK to IAH or DFW you will see DL, CO, and AA match it with larger aircraft.

Remember JFK-FLL prior to B6?
2 727s on DL
1 MD 80 on TW
Now the most heavily travelled route in the nation!

Remember JFK-PBI prior to B6?
1 MD 80 on TW

How about TPA?
One MD 80 on DL

How about LGB, OAK, DEN, MSY?
Didn't exist. Although DL tried MSY for two months after 9/11.

Let's not forget BTV, BUF, and ROC. They had Saab service.

Like I said, the B6 effect is great. Not an opinion--A FACT!

PJ
 
VC745D
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:52 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:30 pm

unacceptable

Why should it cost $1900 to fly non-stop between 2 of the 3 largest cities in the USA? There is no reason I should have to connect through Pittsburgh, Dallas, Atlanta.

unreasonably harsh

Now is that fair?!?!

it's wrong to screw people like that

Is that right??

How dare Delta?

What is all this outrage? It's somehow a person's right to pay what he thinks is reasonable for something?
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8545
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:40 pm

I do slightly resent JetBlue ordering Airbus, but mainly because they laid a smack down on the 737NG when they placed the order. I don't have the quote from the JetBlue official, but he basically called the 737 last-generation trash. That's the kind of trash talk Branson, Leah, and all the other PR asses do, and I have zero respect for it

But in terms of exporting jobs to France, the CFM engine is a 50/50 alliance between GE and SNEMCA of France, so any 737 order leads to some French jobs anyway. And what's wrong with that?

I say attack Texas! Do the same thing!

Texas is the birthplace of the LCC. A good 30 years ago this thing called the Texas Triangle grew into the largest, most profitable carrier in the U.S.

JetBlue would be attacking American's strongest hub moving into DFW, AA would not let that happen. Dallas travelers are statistically loyal to WN and AA. DFW is already a well served market.

To be successful at DFW, JetBlue would have to allocate more resources than it possibly has. Maybe that’s an exaggeration, but why wastes money on a single destination when you could add 2-3 cities for the same price? From a business standpoint, DFW doesn't make sense. I would like to fly JetBlue for the experience, but I'm not holding my breath on them coming to Dallas.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13174
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:14 pm

"If I want to fly from JFK to IAH, what are my options. I do believe one daily flight on CO with a 737. Now is that fair?!?! Is it right that the nation's largest int'l gateway and largest airport in the nation's largest city would have one flight a day to Houston?!?!
And why is this? Because CO wants me to use their hub in Newark. It is a nice hub indeed, but it's wrong to screw people like that. Especially considering the population of Queens, Brooklyn, and Long Island, which uses JFK."

Hey gues what..

There's an airport in the SAME BOROUGH as JFK, it's Called Laguardia. Apparently it's been there a while and CO has something like 9 daily flights from this "Laguardia" Airport to Houston, also AA flies from "Laguardia" Airport to Houston Hobby.

And you should not complain about CO only flying 1 flight from JFK to IAH, try finding a flight from JFK to Chicago!

Laguardia is JFK's Domestic Terminal for flights less than 1,500 miles.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
petazulu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:32 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:31 pm

I don't think anyone has the right to demand a certain airfare- however I do have the right to get pissed off or outraged at a $1900 RT fair 4 weeks in advance. I can fly roundtrip to Paris multiple time from New york for the same price. How come there is more intense competition on the nonstop CDG-NYC route, than between NYC-HOU? It's a market that is ripe for the pickings of someone with an alternative approach to pricing.

Some of you seem to want to blindly defend LCC's or blindly defend your HUB/Major carriers, etc. Alll I am saying is that objectively in the 21st cetury a $1900 roundtrip fare on a 3 hour flight in economy class with a 28 day advanced purchase is COMPLETELY out of touch with most customer expectations and a sign to me of a system which still has lots of opportunities for fresh thinking.

Right now, Jetblue seems to be one of the airlines that provide that fresh thinking.
 
Big777jet
Posts: 2682
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 10:52 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:37 pm

It's from a friend. A friend and I agree on the following:


Sorry to burst your bubble Jfklganyc But what is CO and AA as "fighting for their lives" remark is not accurate. Perhaps it would of been accurate a year ago but not this year buddy. AA has managed to lower their cost even lower than CO's and CO was the lowest out of the network carriers. So please defer from your baseless comments.

In regards to the NYC to Dallas and Houston, not needed, AA and CO has them covered well. With many flights from an airport you may not be familiar with called "La Guardia" CO and especially AA has countless flights from Dallas to NYC.

AA has managed to restructure itself back to profit w/o having to go to Ch11. I believe that this year will be the start for a brighter future for AA.


Big777jet


 
klwright69
Posts: 2314
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:09 pm

OK, people keep talking about CO's lone flight from IAH-JFK. I have said it before, but I guess it didn't get through. It is going to twice daily (except on Saturdays).
 
ssides
Posts: 3248
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:18 pm

Right now airlines like AA and CO charge the $1900 fare because they can. They need these huge fares to offset their super-low fares. A recent article in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram showed that while most of AA's DFW-LGW flights are full, they still aren't money-makers due to the large number of discounted fares. As of now, they have to make that money up somewhere, and when a significant numbers of business travelers are still willing to pay the high fares, they'll keep charging them.

As far as Petazulu's situation is concerned, I think he should just suck it up and connect through CLT, PIT, or wherever else to get the cheap fare if he's that concerned about saving money.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
Guest

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:19 pm

If the fare is 1900 its apparent the market can support that and if its does you pay it. Airlines are a bussiness to make money and if a market can support 1900 fares so beit, thats life get over it.

I pay on average 350 to 450 RT to get to Vancouver every month, that fare seems high seeing I can get to JFK from SAN at times for around 200. But I need to go to Vancouver so I pay the fare. If you need to be somewhere you will pay the fare.

There is always greyhound if you dont like the airlines fares.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 3932
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:57 pm

I guess a loss of a couple of hundred million is doing good, huh?
I love how you guys split ridiculous hairs. No matter how you slice it or what you call it, CO and AA are not doing well. Compared to US, they're doing well. Compared to any other business operated in a free market, they are not doing well.
JetBlue is doing well. They are doing well because they don't charge $1900 for a ticket. Anywhere. Period.
I also love how you guys are tying to enlighten me on LGA. I was raised next to the airport--I KNOW the LGA/JFK situation. Fact is, JFK was long overlooked by the majors when it came to domestic short-haul service. They said nobody would fly out of JFK because of LGA.
However, considering the B6 business plan thus far has been based solely on flying out of JFK, I guess the majors were wrong, weren't they?

It's funny, as much as everyone has responded, no one has yet to address the issue of JFK-FLL going from 3 flights a day under DL/TW to the busiest route in the country.
Will all of you guys who revere the old dogs please address how DL had 2 727 flights a day and TW had one MD 80 flight a day up until B6?
I suppose the JFK-FLL market has grown to 7X it's original size in the past four years, right?
Because now there are 15+ flights on B6 and 5+ flights on DL. 3 flights to 20 flights a day in just 4 years. ALL COACH, ALL LARGER PLANES WITH MORE SEATS.
How about PBI?
One flight a day on an MD 80 with TW. I suppose the 5-8 flights a day on B6 and the 2 flights on DL represents a tremendous growth on the route--also in just 4 YEARS!

Just two examples . . . before you tell me how great AA and DL are at LGA or JFK, please address why none of them ever had 15 flights a day to FLL from either airport. Please address that first, then tell me how evil B6 is and how great the old dogs are.

PJ
 
eastbay
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:44 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:16 pm

Well put, jfklganyc. If you appreciate reasonable fares and frequent service, support your LCC. If underservice and high fares are what interests you, go for the legacy carriers. Simple as that.
 
737-990
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:23 pm

Just priced on Sabre:

EWR/LGA/JFK-IAH on Continental non-stop 20Apr-23Apr:
$1,974.20 total with tax

You have no Saturday night stay over, that's why its soooo expensive, even though all classes of service are available. Since Continental has the only non-stops from NYC to Houston you're out of luck. You could extend your trip until Sunday April 25th and pay the excursion fare of $318.20. Even paying for a hotel for two nights you'll save well over a thousand dollars!

Happiest is a man who has his vocation as a hobby
 
ssides
Posts: 3248
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:26 pm

Also remember something -- JetBlue is doing well because they have sweetheart deals on their aircraft payments (which will balloon in a few years) and no senior pilots, flight attendants, etc., which will end up costing them much much more once they become established.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
petazulu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:32 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:35 am

737-990,
Continental has a stranglehold of this important market. I could waste my weekend and pay less- but I don't want to. I will end up flying through another city. I will survive. My point is that a fare of $1900 is usery and outrageous given that some airlines can profitably charge a fare of 300-600 dollars for a connecting flight. I would not mind paying a premium for direct service- but $1,900? It's price gouging.

The market is right for a low cost carrier to offer direct service. If continental's prices were already low, or their abolished their Saturday night stay requirement, there would be little incentive for an LCC (I don't care which) to become interested in this route. My point is that I think that Majors set themselves up for competition and new market entrants by overcharging for services like this example.
 
richierich
Posts: 3282
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:53 am

$1900 rt anywhere in the USA is pretty unreasonable, Saturday night or not. I am positive all N. American LCCs don't have anything that expensive for even the walk-up fares!

Basically AA and CO are out to rip off the business traveller and gouge certain key routes. You want to talk about sending jobs overseas? How about because most companies' travel budgets are 50-75% too high, IMO! And someone has to pay for the 2-for-1 promotion AA has been offering here in NY! These guys are dinosaur airlines and as the last couple of years have shown, they may be in trouble - AA more than CO. LCCs are here to stay in the USA, and whether it is Southwest, JetBlue, or AirTran, their share of the pie is only going to grow. Legacy airlines will have to learn to adapt to survive, sort of find their niche, so to speak. Ironic because just a few years ago people talked about airlines like JetBlue and AirTran as having to find their niche to survive.

Does AA really have more room in coach than JetBlue? I thought the MRTC program had been discontinued - meanwhile B6 had removed seats and added legroom through some of the cabin. My guess is that it is too close to call.
None shall pass!!!!
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1660
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:34 am

DFW, ORD, and IAH are just like the FLA scenario. If B6 ever started a good amount of nonstops to them from JFK, they would get busy with new flgihts in a hurry.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
UA744KSFO
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:55 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:37 am

"I say attack Texas!"

Hmmmmmm, you could read this in more ways than one! The place is a complete DUMP, so it really isn't worth attacking in the military sense.

In the Kingdom of California, Texas isn't a very popular place. Maybe JetBlue agrees with us which is why FL and CA are served abundantly from JFK while TX is rightly ignored.

I also don't agree with the idea that everyone has a "right" to non-stop service at any hour of the day that they want it. If there is sufficient demand, the service would be offered.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8545
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:54 am


My point is that a fare of $1900 is usery and outrageous given that some airlines can profitably charge a fare of 300-600 dollars for a connecting flight. I would not mind paying a premium for direct service- but $1,900? It's price gouging

Petazulu you're being beligerant. DFW-JFK does not cost $1,900 round trip. Period.

Continental round trip in first class is 1600, American round trip in coach is only 250 dollars. You're lying or are very incompetent at using Expedia. As we have said time and time again-

1. It would be difficult for JetBlue to fly into Dallas
2. They wouldn't make money
3. There are other destinations that could be added first
4. American and Continental are in good health and can compete against JetBlue

JetBlue in Dallas or Houston doesn't make sense and is unneeded.
 
petazulu
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:32 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:58 am

Dfwrevolution,
I refer to NYC-Houston April 20-23rd. Dallas is less expensive. I am sorry if I caused confusion. The $1900 fare is a REAL fare and the cheapest direct (nonstop) flights on those dates between all of NYC and Houston.
 
milemaster
Posts: 994
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:19 am

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:28 am

"I say attack Texas!"

Hmmmmmm, you could read this in more ways than one! The place is a complete DUMP, so it really isn't worth attacking in the military sense.

In the Kingdom of California, Texas isn't a very popular place. Maybe JetBlue agrees with us which is why FL and CA are served abundantly from JFK while TX is rightly ignored.

I also don't agree with the idea that everyone has a "right" to non-stop service at any hour of the day that they want it. If there is sufficient demand, the service would be offered.


You've got to be joking... There are so many things wrong with those statements above I wouldn't know where to start.

[Edited 2004-03-11 21:29:27]
 
737-990
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:26 am

Petazulu,
I total agree with your anger at the $1,900.00 fare, it is outrageous. I'm all for fare simplification and getting rid of the Saturday night stayover clause, all it does is punish an airlines best customers, the business passenger. They don't realize all they do is become a big target for the LCC's with those ridiculous fares. Hopefully more of the legacy carriers will follow the lead of AmericaWest and Alaska and simplify the fare structure, but don't look for any leadership from Continental on this.
Happiest is a man who has his vocation as a hobby
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8545
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: NYC-Houston, NYC Dallas- Jetblue Help US

Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:31 am

I refer to NYC-Houston April 20-23rd. Dallas is less expensive. I am sorry if I caused confusion. The $1900 fare is a REAL fare and the cheapest direct (nonstop) flights on those dates between all of NYC and Houston.

My mistake.. with the forum title and well living in Dallas that's the fare I assumed you were referring to. $1900 between DFW and JFK would be outrageous, especially when booking in advance.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ACATROYAL, Amwest2United, AsiaTravel, AT72, B6FA4ever, Bing [Bot], Cipango, CrimsonNL, Dasa, dk44, GCT64, Google Adsense [Bot], MrBren, MrHMSH, NZdsgnr, qvb222, SCQ83, seansasLCY, StTim, Thule, uta999 and 214 guests