rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:40 pm

I've been thinking about that Eastern Moonlight Shuttle and I wonder why more airlines don't do something similiar, with or without an agreement with a cargo company.

If a plane arrives at LGA at midnight and won't be operating again until 7 AM, why not operate it on a quick LGA-ORD-LGA flight. If they had $70 one way fares they wouldn't have a problem filling it up, they would utilize equipment that would otherwise be sitting not making money, it seems to make sense so why don't airlines do it?

I'm sure there must be a reason they don't...but what?! The only thing I could think of are that maybe it isn't worth adding cycles to the aircraft if the profit margins would be thinner than a daytime flight?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
kevin752
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:44 pm

Many airlines had numerous night flights prior to 9/11. However, since all the airlines experianced bad times, no passengers and no money many airlines cut their night flights due to low passenger amounts. On the countuary, I flew a 757-200 on American LAX-MCO. The flight was pretty full.
"Keep Climbing"
 
rjpieces
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:46 pm

I was thinking more about East coast and Midwest 2-3 hour hops more than transcon redeyes.....
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
coa764
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:57 pm

If there were a demand for it the airlines would offer it. You always hear form the ATC community that the problem with the airlines is that they schedule to many flights into an airport at one time. Well the problem is that the traveling public drives the airlines schedules and if more people wanted to fly late night flights you would see the airlines scheduling flights for them.
Please oh please Mr Moderator Nazi, dont delete my thread.
 
paulinbna
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 4:11 pm

Does it have something to do with noise levels at certain airports. I know at BNA afer I certain time they only use aone runway.

Canon 50D user; 100-400 MM L IS 10-22 MM, 60MM Macro
 
coa764
Posts: 309
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 4:17 pm

Some airports have nose curfews, like DCA, SNA and LGA, or the just close out right. The majority however, remain open 24 hrs a day.
Please oh please Mr Moderator Nazi, dont delete my thread.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 4:55 pm

HP still has alot of them out of LAS.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
NWFltAttendant
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:41 pm

RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 5:11 pm

Flights at night....

mental mental mental

How many passengers voluntarily use redeyes anyways ? Procrastination and unavailability of lower fares on day flights has to be the only reason people use non-transoceanic/non-transcon redeye flights. Nevermind that everybody looks like hell when they arrive their destinations anyways, bags under their eyes, messy hair, stinky. The 757 is predominately used for redeyes at NWA. The aircraft with the narrowest aisle - real special... aisle full of blankets, pillows, stinky feet, farts, need i continue ? Done with your trash ? nah, throw it in the aisle. It was always a gas trying to figure out what you just stepped on in the dark.
Go yakkin !!!!!!
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 5:27 pm

Done with your trash ? nah, throw it in the aisle.

I'll try this the next time I fly a redeye. LOL just kidding  Big thumbs up
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:34 pm

Most redeyes are a product of the timezone mathematics. In order to get aircraft back to the east, you have to run them overnight. Notice that most redeye flights are long west to east ones. Airlines just decide to sell tickets on them to make a little revenue.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
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KaiGywer
Crew
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:39 pm

Also, in those night hours, MX might be performed on the AC, as there is no time during the day.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
COAB767
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:47 pm

CO operates night flights into IAH & EWR from SEA, LAX, SFO, etc.
Continental Micronesia: "Fly With The Warmth Of Paradise"
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:49 pm

"CO operates night flights into IAH & EWR from SEA, LAX, SFO, etc."

Yep... west to east to get the assets back into position for the next day.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
ltbewr
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:52 pm

Many airports, especially on the east coast of the US, are closed to all flights usually 12 midnight-6 am due to noise restrictions. For those airports that are open overnight, often this time period is used for freight flights including for example FedEx. Costs for security for a small number of flights at the airports may also discourage considering these flights. Still, I agree it is too bad more airlines couldn't operate some ops like former Eastern Moonlight specials idea of mixed pax/freight flights perhaps carrying mail, checked courier packages.
 
srbmod
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:46 pm

Like what was mentioned a few posts ago, many airlines do scheduled MX on a/c during the overnight hours. Plus if they have an a/c that went down for unscheduled MX, they have all night to try to get it back into service by the morning. This is why many airlines have a small MX staff at many outstations, so they can do the overnight MX checks.
 
GT
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:49 pm

I know that in LPPT and LEMD the reason is the noise.
A380 fever!!!
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:00 am

When I was in ATL, I saw planes coming in all night. One right behind the other up until midnight. Then I saw one land every 2-3 minutes or so.
Puhdiddle
 
N323ER
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:58 am

The best point I see in here is MX those 3-4 hours ground time are when minor MX checks are performed

RYAN AIRTRAN(BWIOPS)
RYAN SCAIFE
 
chuckles1225
Posts: 170
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:10 am

When I was in ATL, I saw planes coming in all night. One right behind the other up until midnight. Then I saw one land every 2-3 minutes or so.

I stayed at a hotel right by ORD once to catch an early morning flight and the same thing happened there around midnight.

I have looked on a few airport websites and all of them mention no late night/early morning flights to keep down noise. I dont think it matters that much though because people who live by airports have to be used to it.
ask not what your pilot can do for you, ask what you can do for your pilot
 
Thrust
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:47 am

I thought that AA operates a BOS-LHR night flight too, because I was on one. Flight was relatively full. Also, at JFK, which, Rjpieces, I'm sure you have witnessed for a long time, when I flew JFK-STL on AA, the airport had tons of takeoffs and landings. Traffic was enormous at JFK that night. Don't know if it is as crowded at night now as it was on January 3, 2003, but I would imagine it is. Landings happened about every 5 minutes or so... takeoffs at about every 3 minutes or so.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
aussie747
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sun Mar 14, 2004 12:37 pm

Geez from Australia most long haul flights are operated by overnight flights (AMERICAS / EUROPE / AFRICAS). Even long domestic flights out of PER / DRW are overnight. So usually not a huge problem.

Generally if some flights are operated during daylight and overnight. The overnight services generally are the least popular and will more often not deliver lower yields to the airlines.
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:04 pm

If it werent for the maintenance, the smart airlines would get some Combis eh... Then what they could do is run it during the day with a load of passengers then when night comes they can remove the seats and run it as a freighter, then come morning put the seats back in...


CanadianNorth
Way to go, nice and slow, never late, 748!
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:19 pm

"when night comes they can remove the seats and run it as a freighter, then come morning put the seats back in..."

Except all your seats would be someplace else, wouldn't they?
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:07 am

What about those 737 Convertibles? They can operate as pax 737s during the day, have the seats rolled off at night and operate as a cargo plane, and then the seats could be rolled back on in the morning.....Assuming of course that the plane returns to the city it started at.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
flymia
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:20 am

Well MIA is opened 24/7 and they have plenty of traffic all day. We dont have any domestic late night departures like after 22:30. Most of the flights after that are going to South America a few Europe like IB that leaves at 01:25 and lots of Cargo. But then at 04:00 it starts to get busy again with costumes full at 15-20 South American flights comming between 04:00-06:30. No time for noise restrictions here. But yea there are lots of late night flights but most of them are Red Eye.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
SDFOH
Posts: 72
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:36 am

The other thing about night flights is if you have redeye with few or no revenue, then the airline is not only losing money on the aircraft they are also loosing money on operating expenses such as flt crew, fuel, cust serv agents, and landing fees. Those prices can add up real fast on a 737/757. With 25 pax paying $70 one way you barely cover the fuel much less the rest of the expenses. Now if the plane is just sitting at a gate the costs are relatively low as compared to an empty flt
 
EddieDude
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RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:37 am

G9 in Brazil has been very successful with its night flights.

I do prefer late afternoon and red-eye flights because I like and need to minimize the working/vacationing time I lose flying (AM's night flights to GRU from MEX and back are fantastic) so I would really love to see more night flights. I think a very large portion of the people who fly regularly both for leisure and for business would agree with me.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
LUV4JFK
Posts: 443
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:46 am

RE: Why Don't Airlines Operate More Night Flights?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:05 am

Jet Blue was operating a couple of flights to or from JFK to Florida around 3 or 4 in the morning I believe during peak vacation times in December. I agree, the aircraft has the OK to fly, you might as well put it in the air and make a couple of extra dollars.

LUV4JFK
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