futureualpilot
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Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 12:26 pm

Today I was downtown for a few hours, and I was able to see a fair amount of the final approach to SAN. Everything was normal most of the time, except for one WN that made an odd turn very close to the runway.

A mile, maybe 2 miles from the runway(approaching 27), it powered up and made a climbing right 180 degree turn towards the east and flew away with gear and fglaps still down. It came in later, but this was odd to me because normally a go around for SAN is slightly to the left, out over the harbor and so on. My only guess is another aircraft was taking off and instead of the WN jet continuing westwards and getting very close to another departing aircraft, it made a 180 and came back in.

Does anybody have any info on why this might have happened?



[Edited 2004-03-14 04:27:35]
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OPNLguy
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

Sounds like ATC gave him a 360 for spacing...
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Scooter
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:15 pm

Funny...I saw that too while driving south on the 5 just north of the airport. First time I have ever seen a go-around like that at SAN.

I just thought it might have been a missed approach for North Island (couldn't tell it was a WN 737 from my angle).
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AirframeAS
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:19 pm

Damn those WN air pilot cowboys.
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JBirdAV8r
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:37 pm

AirframeAS,

Let's think for a minute...was that really necessary?
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AirframeAS
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:05 pm

yeah it was....basically they think they are GOD. They think they can do anything they want (except for ATC commands) Excessive speeding on taxiways is one example, they really go fast like they have no patience. Ive heard alot of other airline pilots (expecially AS and HP) complain about WN's recklessness on the taxiway, but that was long time ago.
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OPNLguy
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:39 pm

>>>Damn those WN air pilot cowboys.

>>>They think they can do anything they want (except for ATC commands)

If the guys flying the observed flight were indeed making a 360 for spacing, they wouldn't haven't been doing so on their own whims under your "cowboy" theory, but would have been doing so after having been directed by ATC. Accordingly, your second statement tends to disprove your first statement.

BTW, maybe they haven't covered this in your AMT class yet, but assumptive generalizations about other employee groups and/or other airlines can be inaccurate, just like saying "always" or "never" in this biz...







ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:51 pm

There ARE speed limits on the ramp ya know.....food for thought. But the 'cowboy' thing is only my opinion based on hanging out and socializing with the AS pilots in SEA. I also read in an article in the company's employee newsletter for pilots only that the F.A.A. has been complaining to AS about the AS pilots were making unprofessional comments in regards to how WN taxis on the taxiway (speeding and cutting in line for take-off, etc etc..) and those comments had to be stopped because the F.A.A. was listening on the airwaves for unprofessional behavior. But this is not what this topic is about so lets leave it as that.

BTW, maybe they haven't covered this in your AMT class yet, but assumptive generalizations about other employee groups and/or other airlines can be inaccurate, just like saying "always" or "never" in this biz...

This is/was not even covered in any AMT classes, we are not going be trained to become pilots, we are being trained to become LICENSED A&P mechanics so we cant fly the planes since our licenses wouldnt be covered for that. As for getting inaccurate about info from certain workgroups, I agree with that, there will always be 'he said/she said' type situations.

Disclaimer: This is only MY opinion about WN.

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H53Epilot
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:54 pm

Grow up junior. There's a reason why we haven't EVER had a passenger fatality. If this means we are seen as some sort of deity by other pilots and rampers like yourself, then so be it.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:01 pm

AirframeAS,

Accusing WN crews of "defensive driving" on the ground is one thing. But accusing them of inventing their own go-around, flying in the face of established air safety edict (and procedures violations) is another.

Your AMT trainee status gives you NO range to criticize the flight crews at WN or ANY airline for that matter. Just because you see an aircraft with "Southwest" painted on the tail do something different from another aircraft doesn't mean it's not supposed to do it.

There ARE speed limits on the ramp ya know.....food for thought.

Yes, on some, there are. Not all, by any stretch of the imagination. Taxiways are a different story. WN crews taxi at safe speeds on any surface.

WN pilots do not willingly, to the best of their knowledge, break ANY rules, nor does management endorse such behavior in any way. Flying remains a profession, you know. For you to accuse anyone of this, with your total lack of knowledge on the subject, is totally ridiculous. But hey, this is Airliners.net, what's new?
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AirframeAS
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:01 pm

I am grown up first of all. Second of all I stated in my disclaimer that it was ONLY MY OPINION. Third of all, no pax fatality on WN. I agree with that. But what happened to that BUR incident a few years back? Thats laughable because WN damaged that aircraft beyond repair and ended up at a Chevron gas station. If I remember correctly, it was the joke in the industry at the time and it was the talk of the week when it happened. And finally, Im not even a ramper or a pilot. I can't become one because I dont have any ears, I'm deaf. But I can become an A&P mechanic.
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JBirdAV8r
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:06 pm

But what happened to that BUR incident a few years back? Thats laughable because WN damaged that aircraft beyond repair and ended up at a Chevron gas station.

Name one airline who hasn't bent an airplane once or twice and I'll assume you have a point.

If I remember correctly, it was the joke in the industry at the time and it was the talk of the week when it happened.

What's your point here? The AA pilot flipping off the Brazilian authorities was another "joke of the week." Do we still talk about it? No.

I am grown up first of all

I know this borders on irrelevancy, but it'd be nice if you'd act that way.

[Edited 2004-03-14 09:07:32]
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AirframeAS
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:11 pm

*waves white flag* End of discussion!  Big thumbs up
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:17 pm

In defense of AirframeAS at my time with HP in various citys and talking to HP pilots and YV pilots everyday as I was in ops and a loadmaster, I can name more then a few pilots who have complained about WN's excessive taxi speeds.
 
AAR90
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:23 pm

A mile, maybe 2 miles from the runway(approaching 27), it powered up and made a climbing right 180 degree turn towards the east and flew away with gear and fglaps still down. It came in later...

Hmmm, how much "later"??? A RIGHT turn is normally used only when there is an air traffic problem south of the field. Otherwise ATC normally uses a LEFT turn to keep clear of Montgomery and Miramar traffic. Could be North Island traffic, helo's in/around the bay, police and/or medical flights, etc.
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PanAm747
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RE: Odd WN Manuver On Approach To SAN

Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:38 pm

I have seen several planes do this on approach to SAN.

Generally, the busiest time for landings is in the afternoon to early evening. The early morning to early afternoon is hit or miss for spotting, as a lot of the planes are not scheduled for landing close together.

Therefore, there are times that there are very long spaces between incoming planes. It would seem to me that if there if a plane is too high (and heaven knows the approach to SAN is one of the most unforgiving!!), then a standard missed approach (which is a big loop to the south, as is the standard east-bound departure route after take off from Runway 27) might not be necessary if there is no traffic in the immediate area.

That's my two cents worth!!
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