deltaownsall
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 3:25 pm

Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:43 am

Skyteam has always been a pathetic joke compared to OneWorld and Star Alliance, but at least Delta flyers could choose Singapore Airlines in the past as alternatives to airlines like *Korean Air*. Now, with the addition of Northwest and Continental, Delta really offers the worst airlines out of any of the "Big Three" to redeem miles on. Now it seems that whenever we call the partners desk, they try to shove us on Continental/Northwest/Korean Air, which all have blatantly inferior products as compared to Singapore and even SAA. What's the deal? Skyteam has always been the worst aspect of Delta in my opinion, and now with the prohibitive attitude towards getting tickets with the superior Skymiles partners, the only redeeming quality of Delta seems to be the convenience of their domestic network to our local airport and frequent destinations. And Delta just keeps adding "winners" to its "team", eg: China Airlines and Malev. I realize that we could just *switch* to United or even American, but its not that easy, considering how long we have been Delta flyers and the difficulty of learning the good routes/nuances of a new airline. Anyways, I was wondering how the Premier Executive 1k program compares to Delta Platinum Medallion...am I correct in saying that United doesn't provide the unlimited 500 mile upgrades, and that instead of PMU's (6 per year, systemwide), they only award North American upgrades at the rate of 8(?) per year? Thanks for any input.
 
BGR1962
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:13 am

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:00 am

Before you run off bad mouthing Korean let me ask you this, have ever flown them?

If so, when?

I've been around the world on Skyteam and found the service to be just fine thank you. I think Skyteam is headed in the right direction with it's core including KE and AF. I cant say anything about CO or NW I haven't flown with them enough to say, but from what I've read on this forum CO sounds pretty good to me.

 
airplanetire
Posts: 1783
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RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:04 am

It's certainly true that other alliances definately have some of the best airlines in the world and Skyteam does not, but Skyteam is not a joke. Delta's service might not be top notch, but none of the US airlines' service is. Delta though has probably the best coverage of the Southeastern United States of any airline in the world and has decent coverage in the rest of the United States. It carries more passengers across the Atlantic than any other US carrier. It has a decent network in Latin America and the Caribbean. What I'm trying to say is Delta offers a lot of choices. Northwest doesn't have the greatest coverage in the US, but they fly to a lot of Canadian destinations and have a great network between North America and Asia. Continental might be considered the best carrier in the United States in terms of service. They have good coverage of the US except maybe in the West, have some flights to Asia, good network in Latin America, and an excellent network to Europe. KLM and Air France might not have the best reputations for service, but they are two of the biggest airlines in Europe and have very impressive networks. Judging by what people say in these forums, Korean Air didn't have the best service in the past, but it has improved a lot. They also have a good world-wide route network. CSA has a decent reputation for service and it covers Eastern Europe, as does Malev. Aeroflot, if it joins, does not have great service, but it covers the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, which is a region none of the other alliances would have a network near to what Skyteam would have. Aeromexico also doesn't have great service, but it covers Mexico and Latin America. Alitalia helps out in Europe, particularly southern Europe.

What I'm trying to say is that though Skyteam does not have airlines renowned for their service, it has extremely good coverage in most regions of the world. It only lacks partners in deep South America, Africa, Southeast Asia, and Oceania, and there are still airlines left in those regions that could be brought into the alliance. If a person belongs to a Skyteam airline's frequent flyer program, they might not be able to redeem miles on the best airlines in the world, but they can get to almost anywhere in the world they want.

-Airplanetire
 
nwcoflyer
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 7:55 am

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:07 am

What is the problem with CO, NW? They are not your only choices. You can also choose Aero Mexico, Air France, TSA Czech Airlines, and Korean Air. Remember KLM will be joining Skyteam, and others will likley join as well.

With that said, Skyteam will get you to nearly anywhere in Europe, the USA, most of Asia, and the Carribean. The only gaps on the map are South America and parts of Africa. I think that there goal is to increase destinations, create easy connections, and offer frequent flyer benefits.

CO and NW are not sub par compared to other US Airlines, and in some instances with them, I have had much better experiences than some of the other US Airlines. AF is OK, and KL is great.

Of course they are not as great as Singapore, but most of the airlines in the world aren't either. I honestly don't see much to complain about Skyteam, especially with CO, NW and KL joining soon.
The New American is arriving.
 
Guest

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:09 am

"Inferior" is in the mind of beholder.

Up until this alliance, I've avoided Delta as you say you've avoided Northwest and Continental, and that's not easy flying out of Washington. But all the grown-ups are trying to make this thing work.

Can't offer you a solution. I'm Northwest Platinum and get, almost, unlimited upgrades. Exceptions? How about when everyone sitting in f/c actually paid to sit in f/c -- no upgrades will be available. That happens in Washington, and probably in Atlanta.

Furthermore, through the alliance I get frequent upgrades on Continental -- both domestic and international, even though I'm a Northwest client. All in all, I have no complaints, and I stand ready with an open mind to give Delta a second chance.

By the bye -- you mentioned SAA above. As of yesterday, they're part of the Star Alliance.

 
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yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:10 am

Skyteam is playing catchup since it started so late. There are enough un-aligned carriers left that Skyteam could still build a good network of partners.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
DeltaMIA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:53 am

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:14 am

You can redeem Skymiles to fly on Singapore Airlines.
If it isn't available then it isn't available, but at least you have the option to fly NWA, CO, Korean Air over the Pacific and their network is pretty solid. I doubt they were trying to "shove" you on those carriers they were just letting you know what was available for when you wanted to go.
BTW if you do want a Singapore Airlines award using Skymiles better have it done today or tomorrow as First Class awards are going up 20k miles and Business Class is going up 10K miles. Coach is staying the same effective March 16th.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
deltaownsall
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 3:25 pm

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:16 am

BGR1962- Honestly, how can you compare Korean Air and Air France to Singapore Airlines/Cathay and British Airways/Lufthansa. And Korean/Air France are arguably the two biggest anchors of Skyteam other than Delta.

Airplanetire- I realize that Skyteam offers good coverage, and maybe thats what some people are looking for, but when I fly I value service/product over anything else as long as the routing is reasonable...and Star Alliance/OneWorld certainly offer more than ample coverage for me. Furthermore, I would gladly trade access to the former Soviet Union for convenient access to Australia/New Zealand.
 
deltaownsall
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 3:25 pm

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:26 am

You can redeem Skymiles to fly on Singapore Airlines.

Yes, but they have made it next to impossible to accomplish this anymore (I'm not sure which party decided to strain their relations). The reason I am so frustrated at the moment is that we are trying to plan a trip to Japan, and have not been able to secure a Singapore award ticket (not because SQ is booked, but because the seats have not been opened up yet...and we are trying to travel in early June). Anyways...there are no award BizE seats on DL ATL-NRT apparently, so they have been trying to put us on Northwest/Continental (they also have been charging 120,000 for Continental BusinessFirst, before the rate increase). And yes, I know that the rates are going up tomorrow, that is why we are in such a rush to book this. The price of Business tickets is actually going up by 30,000 I believe.
 
Guest

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:32 am

Airplanetire,

The alliance has a good part Oceania covered through Continental-Micronisia.

 
DeltaMIA
Posts: 1622
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:53 am

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:34 am

I think for a Singapore award it is going from 80k to 90 for Business and 100k to 120k for first. I don't have it in front of me right now.
You don't have to have the travel booked to get an award. You can have them pull the miles and have the award in hand and when you book the travel redeem the award at a FTO/CTO. The downside to this is that it is only good for a year and if you want to redeposit the award there is a fee. Plus the award is only good for the area of travel you redeem it for (ie Singapore Airlines first class RT, SkyTeam Business Class RT, DL domestic coach RT, DL/NW/CO domestic RT, etc.).

It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
chuckles1225
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 12:36 pm

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:41 am

What would you suggest delta do then Deltaownsall, stay an independent airline and have very limited routes all over the world? Delta needs to make alliances anywhere they can get them, how do we know why they chose the airlines they did. There could be a number of reasons. As for NW and CO they are the fine carriers and more importantly they have many destinations and are large companies. They have already set up a large operation in the US and abroad and there is not a very good chance that they will be running out of money and shutting down. What other US airlines can you say that about, maybe southwest but they serve limited destinations. If you don't like CO, NW or any other of the skyteam airlines than choose flights that only use Delta a/c.
ask not what your pilot can do for you, ask what you can do for your pilot
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:44 am

Information regarding Delta Air Lines SkyMiles miles needed to redeem Award tickets on Singapore Airlines Limited flights.

From YVR, LAX or SFO to North Asia:
50 000 miles for one class upgrade
60 000 miles for Economy Class
120 000 miles for Raffles Class (from 90 000)*
140 000 miles for First Class (from 120 000)*

From EWR or JFK to AMS or FRA respectively
40 000 miles for one class upgrade
50 000 miles for Economy Class
90 000 miles for Raffles Class (from 80 000)*
100 000 miles for First Class

From EWR or JFK to Southeast Asia
50 000 miles for one class upgrade
80 000 miles for Economy Class
120 000 miles for Raffles Class (from 110 000)*
140 000 miles for First Class

From YVR, LAX or SFO to Southeast Asia
50 000 miles for one class upgrade
70 000 miles for Economy Class
120 000 miles for Raffles Class (from 95 000)*
140 000 miles for First Class (from 130 000)*

From YVR, LAX or SFO to West Asia
50 000 miles for one class upgrade
80 000 miles for Economy Class
120 000 miles for Raffles Class (from 110 000)*
140 000 miles for First Class

* denotes effective from 16 March 2004.

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
BGR1962
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:13 am

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:47 am

I have never have flown on Singapore so I can't compare them to anyone else. (I know that they're tops though, although I have read more than one complaint concerning them here as well) But I have flown BA and I'll never fly it again, at least in the back. The flights on KE and AF that I've done were in First Class so I can't complain about them at all.

What I asked earlier still stands, are you bad mouthing KE because of past experience or because of their ancient history?

"they try to shove us on Continental/Northwest/Korean Air, which all have blatantly inferior products as compared to Singapore and even SAA"

I'd also like to ask you what you find to be inferior with CO and KLM?

With AF's new J and F coming online I don't think you can complain a great deal about them either.
 
Guest

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:58 am

I find it hilarious that somebody who claims to have grown up traveling in premium cabins seems to think DL's product is on par with the likes of AF, LH, SQ, etc. (I learned this from glancing at your posting history) while calling NW/CO "abysmal."

Reality check: DL's product's no better than NW/CO. In fact, I think it's worse -- DL doesn't even have meal service in Y on true transcontinentals!!!!
 
deltaownsall
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 3:25 pm

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:07 am

I find it hilarious that somebody who claims to have grown up traveling in premium cabins seems to think DL's product is on par with the likes of AF, LH, SQ, etc
Hi, I don't think DL's product is anywhere near LH, AF, or SQ First class. Glad you got some laughs though.

Really, I'm just looking for a comparison of DL Platinum Medallion to UAL 1k Premier Executive. Everyone has their opinion...and yes I do think OneWorld and Star Alliance are far superior to Skyteam. I'm not trying to be some kind of armchair-CEO either...I'm just frustrated that DL has shied away from what I consider to be their best partner in terms of product. Hell, it might even be SQ's fault, but I find the alliance to be a very integral part in choosing an airline, and that is why we are considering switching to United.
 
fjnovak1
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:23 am

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:39 am

Well I'm sure that Delta will be crying in their SKY magazines losing the business of a 16-20 year old!!! I'm sure they have plenty of lucrative business passengers to worry about and a pilot contract to settle before worrying about some kid-aviation analyst that is upgrade hungry....
Go Blue!!
 
deltaownsall
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 3:25 pm

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:07 pm

Well I'm sure that Delta will be crying in their SKY magazines losing the business of a 16-20 year old!!! I'm sure they have plenty of lucrative business passengers to worry about and a pilot contract to settle before worrying about some kid-aviation analyst that is upgrade hungry....

lmao...no...no they won't. That's not the point, and I should hope that you know that. I never said my business was a big deal for DL...no one person's business is. I guess you just felt obligated to make fun of me for voicing my opinion, but that's alright, it doesn't say anything about your character  Insane I'm sorry, I'll wait the few months until I'm a legal adult to actually have opinions.
 
Guest

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:56 pm

to answer your question... UA is more friendly to the international flyer who travels 100,000+ miles per year...

UA 1Ks receive:

-- four 500-mile upgrade certificates per 10,000 status miles (they can also be purchased)... these are used within the domestic system on any fare... confirmed 100-hours out...

-- two HK-50 certificates per quarter (only if you've flown 10,000 status miles, though)... one-way domestic upgrades (including Hawaii) confirmed at the time of ticketing...

-- six SWU (systemwide upgrades) per year... usually confirmed at the time of ticketing... worldwide one-cabin upgrade... some certs allow upgrade from any fares, others have a minimum class for international travel


 
hoons90
Posts: 3116
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:36 pm

Deltaownsall,

Just wondering, can you specifically explain what problems you have with KE's products/services, and also wondering if you have any inflight experience with KE and all the airlines you compared KE with?
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
FlyGuyClt
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:23 pm

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:41 pm

Another bitter thread...And so goes the level of intelligence on Anet.

Safe Flying  Smile
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
deltaownsall
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 3:25 pm

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:38 am

awesome...only took 18 replies for me to have one person answer my question. Thanks for the info IndustrialPate.
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Abysmal Delta Partner Situation

Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:15 am

And don't forget AA as a choice. Certainly Cathay's product to Asia would be considered outstanding, and BA's as well.

Top-tier elites at AA also now get space-available domestic upgrades for free. And eight one-way certs good on any published coach fare to upgrade to business.

For those of us NOT traveling in the premium cabins, Skyteam has one significant advantage -- virtually all coach fares earn full mileage, whereas many of the lower, published fares classes within OW or *A earn significantly less than 100% (and often zero).

Like all alliances, they are VERY dependant on your personal travel patterns and needs. While there are significant generalities, there are lots and lots of exceptions.

Steve

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