nycfuturepilot
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Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:09 am

Paper tickets are fairly expensive to buy for what they are so why would anyone want/need them?
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
mrniji
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:14 am

Maybe security reasons?? No idea...

Some people just trust more when they have a valid ticket in the hand. They purchase s/t and want a kind of "receipt"

I am happy etix exists, since now I can't loose my tickets anymore  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
lovedswissair
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:15 am

nycfuturepilot,
I have been collecting all my tickets since 1974 (aged 9), regret that my flights during the late 60's were not collected by my parents.... with E-TKT... sort of no memory any more... well, have transferred all my tickets into a XLS.sheet now

E-TKT printouts are not the same, all look alike, nothing unique to the airline anymore.

rgds
lovedswissair
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:17 am

Some smaller airlines, such as A6 have no e-tickets at all. When booking a trip say, DTW-AMS on KL/NW connecting to A6 to Innsbruck you are forced to have a paper ticket for the entire trip.
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Sabena332
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:18 am

I always travel on eTickets, but only when I am booked as a regular passenger. When I am flying non-rev I always prefer ATB tickets, the reason is simple: When the airline you are planning to travel on rejects you because the flight is full, you can present your ATB ticket to the check-in agent on the other airlines counter.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
nycfuturepilot
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

lovedswissair, you still get boarding passes which are pretty similar.

Sabena, they make non-rev etickets?! whats atb?
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
lovedswissair
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:27 am

further to Dtwclipper's comments,

I am working with an IT company providing solutions to the airlines... a major problem is that the airlines cannot agree on WHAT information is to be exchanged, who maintains the E-TKT database, what happens to the E-TKT status, when a flight is cancelled after the passenger has checked-in, what if the a/c has to return to the departure city, etc etc. The list is pretty long. IATA has only set a few standards.

Basically, airlines hosted on the same reservation system, there should not be any problem. Linking the various system to allow interlining on an e-tkt basis is very very costly.

Then, the airlines also face legal restrictions, i.e. the government REQUIRES a paper ticket before you can even enter the check-in area.

Or, if the departure control system (check-in system), is NOT linked to the reservation system, the data often cannot be exchanged.

the US airlines are leading here, AA for example has a rate of some 95% on E-tickets, but this of course due to the high domestic travel. as soon as you want to code-share...

This is just an eagle's eye view, it's very complex.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:28 am

Many complex itineraries still require paper tickets, since not all airlines have interline e-ticketing arrangements with each other. Sometimes frequent flier reservations on partner airlines require them too. Also, as others have mentioned, some airlines still don't do e-tickets at all.

The only paper tickets I've had in the past couple of years were on Air Jamaica (booked using DL SkyMiles), LAB and LanPeru (neither of which has e-ticketing, at least not if booked in North America). Paper tickets are rapidly going the way of the dodo!
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Sabena332
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:31 am

Sabena, they make non-rev etickets?! whats atb?

Yes, I know for sure that LX issue electronic non-rev tickets, I am not sure about other airlines.

ATB = Automated Ticket and Boarding Pass, that is the official name for the tickets with the magnetic stripe on the backside.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
lovedswissair
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:34 am

nycfuturepilot,
re boarding passes, you're right, but it's not the same for me.

ATB: the first automated tickets were the TAT/OPTAT tickets (which just came after the hand-written ones). ATB 1 and 2 are the ones with the magnetic stripe on the back (Very expensive, don't know the price exactly, but boarding pass printers are in the range of roughly 5000 USD, gate readers around 20'000 USD), so ETKT is clearly cheaper and speeds up the back-offfice processing as well (accounting etc).

ID Tickets can be issued as ETKT, provided the respective governments allow it.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:41 am

Greetings...first post for me here.

I used to work for an airline. The majority of the paper tickets I saw came from these people:

People traveling on tickets with Orbitz, Expedia, etc. They had paper tickets because, as mentioned above, some airlines do not have IET agreements with eachother yet. But that is rapidly disapeering. Orbitz will book you out of your home airport on say United. Then when you get to your transfer they'll throw you on American, or someone. UA and AA may not have an IET agreement yet, so the the traveler is required to hold a paper ticket to board.

Another would be award tickets. Some airlines still require that people traveling on a mile redemption hold paper tickets.

Another big contingent of travelers with paper tickets, are people from over-seas. They often book through a travel agent who gives them a paper ticket. And, like mentioned above, they feel much more comfortable holding a paper ticket in case someone disputes they have a reservation. They also feel more comfortable giving them to the customs agent I would guess.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:45 am

It's a legacy thing. It'll pass.

My in-laws are coming over on Thursday. I think they would feel insecure with e-ticketing. Same as older people are less comfortable with credit cards.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
TomFoolery
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:47 am

At least in the past, If your flight gets cancelled, or worse, airline goes under, those paper tickets can really speed the rebooking process on another airline. I have been sent back to the original airline to get a paper ticket on order to process the change on another.

tF
Paper makes an airplane fly
 
Ken777
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:55 am

When you do RTW trips a paper ticket is really handy for those odd places you try to fly out of. Domestic travel on a single airline is a no-brainer, but I want the security of a paper ticket when I'm working with someone with limited English who is new on the job. Paper tickets have saved me more than one time!
 
WesternDC1010
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:05 am

If I fly for business, our contract travel agency is so bad, they've botched up reservations and e-ticket bookings often that I require paper tickets whenever I have to use their services.

It's a shame, but if my employer pays for travel, I'm forced to use these incompetent travel services.

Reality.

Ron
Western DC-10-10
Western Airlines - The Only Way To Fly
 
bobb
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:05 am

Until all the airlines computer systems can talkt to each other, paper tkts will forever exist.

There is, still, an advantage of paper tkts, beside interlinking, if for some reason, something happends to your electronic reservation, you have an undeniable proof in front of you.

eTkt is definitely the way to go though as long as you write down the correct LOCATOR CODE. Amazingly enough, 95% of passengers who parade in front of me everyday don't know that all I require of them is this locator code. But nooooo, they bring the whole stack of paper. Hello! I don't have time to read your briefs!!! If I did, the line behind you will never clear.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:11 am

If your res gets botched in the system and disappears....the paper ticket won't get you a seat on the flight. That I'll guarantee you. You may eventually get a refund...but it won't help you much day of flight.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
bobb
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:29 am

"but it won't help you much day of flight"

What airline are you talking about. My airline will force overbooking as long the PAX shows up within reasonable time. Which sounds like a reasonable way to handle things to me. People/travel agents etc do make mistakes and if you can't trust a printed paper tkt, what can you trust?
 
S12PPL
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:38 am

This doesn't have to do with airlines over booking flights on purpose...we all know that happens daily. What I'm saying is if you res. gets botched, and disapeers...you probably won't fly that day. At least not on that original flight your booked on. Especially if that flight is over-sold.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
jhooper
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:44 am

I have a question regarding paper tickets. Last time I flew with one, I had a boarding pass that said "Flight Coupon Required", and as I understand, the agent is supposed to take your flight coupon when you board. Well, the agent didn't do that and I have a leftover paper ticket. I know it would be morally wrong to try and refund or use it, but just out of curiousity, do I have a valid ticket that could be used?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
freshlove1
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:31 pm

No you dont, who ever you flew with will see that they dont have the paper ticket and fill out a ticket replacement form with the ticket number on it so Revenue Accounting can collect the $$$. If you try to exchange it the ticket number will come up invalid and will be worthless toward an exchange. And by some strange reason if it did get through the system when you tried to exchange it, the exchange costs would be more then the part of the ticket you have. I'd just chuck it.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:45 pm

Jhooper,
The gate agent probably got in a bit of trouble for not collecting your flight coupon. They are required to turn them in with their flight envelope to give to accounting.

If you tried to get a refund, you would be told, after they investigated of course, that you had indeed flown that portion of your itenerary, and would be kindly turned down Smile
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
kevin752
Posts: 684
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:10 pm

I will be using paper tickets for this flight once I go to pay for it;
LH 457 LAX - FRA
OU 412 FRA - SPU
OU 413 SPU - FRA
LH 456 FRA - LAX
Note (OU) Croatia Airlines does not have E-tickets at this time so I have to have paper tickets for the entire trip. I like E- tickets and paper tickets. It is true some airlines do not have E- tickets.
"Keep Climbing"
 
m404
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:47 pm

How 'bout this for a very simple reason.

Not every airline takes e-tickets.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
SEAPete
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:38 pm

RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:56 pm

I flew from SEA to Las Vegas with a girlfriend of mine back in 1999 she booked the tickets through a travel agent and had them Express Mail the paper tickets to me. I was in a state of shock because I had been using e-tickets for so long. I don't know why it was paper, but must have been because of the travel agent thing. We flew AS, so the airline was not the issue.

Cheers!

Pete
SEA No other place like it
 
afay1
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:59 pm

I would never trust any Russian airline to issue an electronic ticket and then find it again at the airport. I laugh at the idea....
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:40 pm

Afay1 said:
I would never trust any Russian airline to issue an electronic ticket and then find it again at the airport. I laugh at the idea....


Hang out in Russia much?


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:21 pm

I printed somewhere in the region of 600 paper airline tickets today. I personally enjoy getting paper tickets still as there is a lot of cool information on them that you don't always get on an e tkt if you know where to look. as already said for those of us that collect ticket stubs from our trips it can better.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
afay1
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:42 pm

To starlionblue: uh, actually I live in Moscow most of the year and fly at least once a month. I am from southern NH. Anyway, there is no system of e-tickets here, and if anyone were to introduce it as no one would ever believe the validity of an e-ticket, and if anything happened to the reservation, the reaction on the part of the agent would be a shrug. While a paper ticket doesn't guarantee that the flight printed on it actually exists or the company will be in business that day or the time is right, it does give you some recourse. I imagine the situation is the same in many other countries. Of course it is more efficient to use e-tickets, but only if it based on the surety of universal acceptance and widespread use.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:54 pm

Point taken. I was just wondering. Actually there are quite a few situations in which I would rather have a papertkt,
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
afay1
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:54 pm

no prob, sorry to sound cranky!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:12 pm

I just like needling people, as some here have already pointed out Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Cessna172RG
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:20 pm

I hate E tickets. I like having paper tickets that I can present to the airlines and actually talk to an agent instead of some stupid computer console.
Save the whales...for dinner!!!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:29 pm

You should have no problem talking to an agent with your eticket. Just present your Frequent Flyer card, credit card, or passport.

As for the console, it has a shorter line  Big grin

E tickets are here to stay. Learn to love them.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:37 pm

One of the greatest advantages of an e-ticket in my mind is security.

Last October my carry on bag was stolen, (I'm a fool I know for letting it happen) at Central Station in AMS. Wallet, Passport, Credit Cards, etc. All gone in the blink of an eye. If we had had paper tickets we would have been screwed!

Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
bobb
Posts: 241
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:57 am

"you probably won't fly that day. At least not on that original flight your booked on. Especially if that flight is over-sold"


Let me repeat. My airline, after seeing a valid paper ticket but missing e-confirm, will overbook a flight to get that PAX on. We do not want to penalize the PAX for mistake not of his own. We do this EVEN if the flight is already overbooked, AS LONG as mentioned, the PAX shows up at the counter within reasonable time. In the event that the flight is REALLY off the brim, we issue travel voucher to the PAX for his trouble and attempt to confirm him on next flights. To us, a valid issued paper tkt is a solid contract. Just 'cuz one of our travel agent/computer messed up, we do not blame this on PAX.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:37 pm

I haven't had a paper ticket in many years... they are pointless. I'd be unhappy if I didn't get a boarding pass though, because I keep those!

Still, it was always fun back in the paper ticket days to see what the thing looked like, because they were often changed on a regular basis. I know Ansett in Australia had heaps of variations on their paper tickets.

Funnily enough, I have a Qantas e-ticket for a flight I am taking in June, and it says -

THIS ITINERARY/RECEIPT DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A DOCUMENT FOR
CARRIAGE AND IN THE EVENT OF ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IT AND THE
RECORD OF BOOKING IN THE QANTAS DATABASE, THE LATTER SHALL
PREVAIL.

So even if I print off what they sent me and the computer disagrees, the computer is always right - according to Qantas. I'm sure that customer service common sense would come into play if there was an error.

I have no issues with E-tickets at all.

Cheers,

Trent.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
LFutia
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:41 pm

I told my mom that NW and KL have E-Tix and she said that she doesnt want them because she likes to hold them in her hand. Now this is when we fly to India. So i have a feeling that we have paper tickets to India... grr. OTOH, we have e-tickets through Travelocity for ORD-PIT-JST on US/US Exp./ UA.
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
Flightlover
Posts: 318
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:46 pm

I kinda like paper tickets. Every single time I fly on an E-ticket I try to get a real boarding pass from an agent because the machines most of the time will issue just a regular paper boarding pass that you can't even keep as a souvenir. The US Airways agents get pretty annoyed when you do that. They all want you to use the machine nowadays. Well, there are aviation fans out there who want a real boarding pass  Smile
 
NeptunesCar
Posts: 97
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:15 pm

Dont forget the majority of world airlines are not on the E ticket system at all... in fact if you book nearly any ticket overseas (except for European full service and no frills) you will always get a paper one.
You call it the world, we call it home. Pan Am.
 
bobb
Posts: 241
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:14 pm

Just remember, with an e-tkt, print out your itinerary with the locator# from the airline's website, for back up. Things happens. Do the same with hotel, car reservations etc. But all you frequent travelers already know that.

The most dumb mistakes I've seen are from travel agencies. The PAX trusts them, but them fail to make the correct res/confirm with us airline. PAX shows up with agency's travel paper thinking everything is hunky doorey, on a weekend, when the agency is closed, and we airline go uh? what confirmation, u don't have a confirmation with us!!! Don't trust the travel agency, always confirm with the airline itself!
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:37 pm

...and some sick people like me actually keep all their paper tickets for their collection  Laugh out loud

UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:40 pm

Bobb - you are quite right. Whenever you get a ticket from a travel agent, make sure they give you the airline record locator of your booking. NOT the CRS record locator, that is no good to man or beast. Most airlines, especially the larger ones, will return their inventory record locator to the GDS pretty much instantaneously, and that is the one you need. If they don't have it, or won't give it to you, phone the airline and get it. Without an RLOC you have no guarantee that your booking made it to the airline, and quoting the Travel Agent booking reference is no help.

P.S. This is even MORE important when you have an e-ticket, but when you have an e-ticket the airline HAS to have returned a record locator because without it the e-ticket cannot be issued. Make sure the agent gives it to you, and make a note of it on the e-ticket receipt.

[Edited 2004-03-18 09:44:17]
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
koreanair747
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:38 pm

RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:50 pm

In my case I prefer etix as it is more comfortable to handle for me. No possibility of loosing tickets anymore!

Koreanair747
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:06 pm

What would happen if the E-ticket system one day washes out and loses EVERY PNR thats was made? This is why I prefer paper tickets to prove that I have paid for my flight and that Im ON that flight, etc etc. I just dont trust computer systems quite yet because of some flaws in software programs can go corrupt or fry out. Paper tix for me!!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
united4ever
Posts: 287
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:48 pm

Another reason for a paper ticket is if someone's flight is paid for using another person's credit card - the airline has to ensure there is no fraud and credit cards are often checked when travelling on an e-ticket.

Mike
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:40 pm

United4ever - Prepaid Tickets are gradually being phased out because of the introduction of e-tickets. Since there is no physical document, an e-ticket can be purchased on behalf of someone else no matter where they are. Much easier.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
TFJamie
Posts: 117
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RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:52 pm

I prefer paper tickets...Most of my flights don't offer e-tickets but also, I have experience with IT systems and every single such system fails at least once. Maybe not the likeliest occurrence, but I most certainly want to have that document in my hand if it does.

But I probably wouldn't hesitate to use an E-ticket anyway.

The thing I like most about paper tickets is that you can look at them for a long time and check all the information on them. My favorites are the old type with the red chalk letters, I even have one handwritten in my collection. That is a gem.

Jens
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:58 pm

TFJamie - re I even have one handwritten in my collection. That is a gem.


You are making me feel VERY old - handwritten and printed OPTATs were all I knew for ages ! I remember getting quite excited when I travelled on my first ATB ticket... ah old age.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
dstc47
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 3:53 am

RE: Why Would Anyone Need Paper Tickets?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:22 pm

One further reason for paper tickets is if your travel is being paid for by one person, but is being recouped by another, a firm or organisation for example, it would be far easier to fake, or alter, an eticket record than to fake a conventional ticket - especially to alter the price actually paid for the flight or flights on the eticket print out.

Anyone with a computer can change that record, to create an altered record to use to claim a refund, while using the original true record to check in.

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