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Where's Fokker When You Need Them?

Sat Jan 29, 2000 5:29 am

I must admit, I really like Fokker airliners. They really offered a little innovative spice to the apron. I miss the company, and it's sad to see its products disappearing. Any thoughts on the F.28, F.100/70, or F.50? I'd love to read them, positive or negative.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
Matt D
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RE: Where's Fokker When You Need Them?

Sat Jan 29, 2000 5:38 am

I agree the Fokkers (the F-70 and F-100 in particular) are really nice planes, and it's a shame that Fokker went bust just as the market for those types began to boom. I always enjoy seeing the American, Midway, and USAir/USAirways F-100's at PHL, EWR and LGA. Too bad that there are no F-100's out West here. I only saw the F-70's once or twice with America West, and the F-28's with the short lived Air 21.
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RE: Where's Fokker When You Need Them?

Sat Jan 29, 2000 5:39 am

I fly them a lot on AA, and think the F100 is a nice little plane. I don't remember it being very noisy and I like the 2x3 seating. Other then USairays and AA, who operates the F-100?
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RE: Where's Fokker When You Need Them?

Sat Jan 29, 2000 6:16 am

I am a big fan of Fokker's small airliners. I grew up on Friendships flying domestic routes in Angola, Africa. They are rugged and dependable airplanes.

The F28 Fellowship is a natural development of the F24 tradition. It is also a well designed rugged and reliable plane that can still be seen flying every day with Horizon Air here in the Pacific Northwest. Cool airbrake system on the tail, good rough runway performance, etc. atributes that are probably more important for another place and time. Horizon is planning to replace the F28's with CRJ's for the jet routes and for expantion.

What I am not too excited about is the loud low bypass engines. The fact that the F28 doesn't have thrust reversers and relies on those cool air brakes and carbon wheel brakes for stopping power. I understand that F70/100 do have clamshell-syle reversers.

I'd like to think that if Fokker were still around today they would be teaching lessons in the regional jet market that they pioneered.


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RE: Where's Fokker When You Need Them?

Sat Jan 29, 2000 7:39 am

The F-100 is, IMO, second only to the 717 for passenger comfort. I've said before that Fokker had the perfect plane but a decade too early.
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Sat Jan 29, 2000 7:45 am

Personally, I hate the F-100! If anyone wants to buy a few, I am sure AA would gladly sell you about 72 of them....
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RE: Where's Fokker When You Need Them?

Sat Jan 29, 2000 8:05 am

I've never flown on one, and I'm sure they are pretty good for their time, but the F28's are getting on in age, and are pretty noisey. It seems that when Canadi>n Regional's F28's fly overhead, they're noisier than 737's or DC9's, by a longshot. And it seems like that on both takeoff and landing they're like that. At least that's what I've experienced with my own ears.

RE: Where's Fokker When You Need Them?

Sat Jan 29, 2000 8:34 am

Hello LHMark !!
Here in Norway The Norwegian flag carrier Braathen S.A.F.E(South America & Far East Airtransport) used the F 28-1000 with 65 seats on their coastal flights some years ago,-and I really loved this planes.They were replaced by the F 50 which is ok,but I really liked the sound/noise of the RR Spey.Two of this planes was sold to a carrier called Queebec Air.Are they still flying?

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Sat Jan 29, 2000 10:34 am

Quebecair, through a long series of changes that led to the formation of Canadian Airlines International, had become Inter-Canadien. They shut down operations only a few months ago.

RE: Quebecair

Sat Jan 29, 2000 10:50 am

Hello AC183 !
Thank`s a lot for your information.Do you know where those F28`s gone ?

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RE: Quebecair

Sat Jan 29, 2000 1:18 pm

I have no idea where those F28's went. I would assume the F28's Inter-Canadien had when they shut down were not the same ones as those, because I beleive ICN leased those (the ones it shut down with) from Canadian Regional after having been rid of F28's for some time. If you can come up with the serial numbers for the aircraft you are interested in, I can try to find them. Also, FYI there used to be a Saskatchewan regional carrier by the name of NorCanAir which used F28's for a brief period as a connector carrier to CPAir, just before CPAir was purchased by Pacific Western. Also, I would have to look it up in the CPAir history at the library, but I believe one or two other carriers operated CPAir connections in the '80's with F28's.
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RE: Where's Fokker When You Need Them?

Sat Jan 29, 2000 2:03 pm

They're not liked by most mechanics,tolerated by some and preferred by a similar amount. I think they're okay. Quirky planes,they are--they sure march to their own beat. Flying in them is okay. Very noisy in the aft third of the cabin...beautifully quiet in the front...windows too low for anyone over 4 foot 10 tall...inneffective cooling capacity on the ground on hot days. Never did make the aquaintance of a 70.

RE: Where's Fokker When You Need Them?

Sat Jan 29, 2000 3:36 pm

I personally HATE the F28. I'll tell you why. This was on the Thanksgiving weekend in October, 1999. This was the first time I ever flew on one - on a Canadian Regional F28 from YYC to YVR after making a very tight connection from YEG. Tried to upgrade, but the FA said sorry, there's no seat left in Business Class. But they were pretty nice through the whole trip. Anyway, I had go to my seat in economy class, about halfway down the cabin. The legroom? Terrible! I'm only average-sized for a man, though on the skinny side, about 5'9". Yet my knees pressed against the seat in front of me. Not to mention the fact the seats are tiny, even smaller than what you'd get on a Dash 8!

The noise was just as awful. I might as well have strapped right to one of these jet engines! The noise was worst when the pilots powered up the engines prior to takeoff and just after landing. Think of what any larger commercial jet aircraft like the 737-200 sounds like from the outside when they're taxiing, that's exactly what it sounded like in the cabin, a high pitch whine just a notch less in volume, but still pretty awful. During flight, the nasty whine gets replaced by the usual cabin roar, but still louder than the 737-200, especially in the back. Even the 737-200s and the DC-9-32s, operated by CP and AC, respectively aren't even as loud inside the cabin and neither of them has that terrible whiney pitch to it. The turbulence during the flight was really, really bad. The FAs couldn't even serve the drinks at all and no one could get up and use the washroom. The F28 is about probably as turbulence-prone as any regional jet could get. Probably because the F28 doesn't cruise as high an altitude as most jets do. My mother and my sister came down to YVR that same afternoon on a WestJet 737 flight, they experienced very little turbulence on the way. I flew back to YYC from YVR a few days later, and managed to get an upgrade. Service was pretty good. But the business class seats were not that much larger than the 737's economy class seats, but the legroom was OK. Still loud as ever on that trip. With that kind of noise, I am not going to be too surprised if the pilots or the FAs end up with some hearing damage after serving for a time on these planes! I swore never to fly on these planes again. I usually try to book 737 flights, CP or WestJet, or on any AC flight. AC uses the DC-9 and the BAe 146 on the YEG-YVR route. And the occasional A319, which I find a delight to fly on!
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Sat Jan 29, 2000 4:05 pm

I've only been on one Fokker a 70 PH-KZK from Amsterdam to Hamburg. June 22 1999.

I gave up a business class seat on a 737 to fly on one and I'm so glad I did.

It was fantastic. First flight on a plane with rear mounted engines since I flew an Ansett 727 CNS-SYD in 1986!!!

The lift sensation is something wicked

Best Regards

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Fokker List

Sat Jan 29, 2000 8:24 pm

For any of you who are interested in which carriers are flying Fokkers, please check out my site http://fly.to/rorders and choose "Worldmap" in the pull-down menu. Then click on the region you´re interested in. I appologize that the lists might not be complete but if you find something wrong please mail me. The adress is on my site.

Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A343/346, A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B762/763,B772/77W,CR2/7/9/K,ER3/4,E70/75/90/95, F50/70/100,M11,L15,SF3,S20, AR8/1, 142/143,...
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RE: Where's Fokker When You Need Them?

Sat Jan 29, 2000 8:49 pm

The first flight i ever paid for myself was on a Piedmont F-28-4000 from Miami to Gainsville. It was a great flight and a great little plane. Sad to say but both are now gone.
"Aviation & Black hole carry same effect,once any where near it you're bound to get sucked in".

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