Motorhussy
Topic Author
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Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:01 am

Was just looking at aircraft configurations on the LH website and noticed that there is no first class on board their A346's. They have their new A330-300's configured with first and they fly fewer people less distance. Their 744's have three classes so why not the A346?

What routes are they being used on that don't justify trying to attract the premium passengers? Just interested, no mal-intent - before any of you start getting on your Teutonic high horses.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:57 am

I know they are used on FRA-YYZ, FRA-YYZ routes. But I would expect that these would justify having 1st Class.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
Hardkor
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:15 am

Maybe they figure that the A340 600 is such a smooth, sweet ride, that they don't even need to bother with a first class
After having seen it take off from YVR several times, that's just my opinion
Hardkor
 
AC345
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:59 am

Just a guess here, they are for markets that don't really need a first class. LH currently operates them to YVR and starting tomorrow to YYZ. I don't know about YYZ, but YVR is a fairly casual, laidback city. My feelings is that people around here do not put that much an emphasis on luxury. If you go for a walk in downtown you won't see any high fashion like you probably would in Paris or NYC. Vancouver is all about the outdoors, sports, living well and also a lot of common sense. And it's common sense that if you have a good business class with a lie-flat seat, you won't blow another few thousands to fly in first. Just my 2 Canadian cents from YVR.
 
WindowSeat
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:51 am



LH is not alone in this. As AC345 has pointed out, more airlines are going for a good business class with flat beds. AF is also on a major restructuring plan. It's first A340 F-GLZK reconfigured in a two class configuration is already flying CDG-EWR exclusively. EWR is a very high yield market with the capability of filling up the First class, but with a superior business class product, airlines are finding that they can save some money, and add some more seats to cattle class too...

cheers


I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
andz
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:35 pm

SAA is the same, no first on any A340s. SA is the first airline to operate 3 different A340 variants and they are all two class.

After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Motorhussy
Topic Author
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:46 pm

WindowSeat & AC345 & Andz

Yes, o'kay, but given your rationales, why three classes on their A333's?

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
emiratesa345
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:03 pm

I think the 3 classes onboard the A333 is because of the aircraft coming from Sabena in that configuration. I believe they also have PTVs. I could be wrong, just something I thought I read on here once.

EMiratesA345 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
mozart
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:41 pm

EmiratesA345,

someone correct me if I am wrong, but it's not the A333 that come from SN, but the A332, which are operated in C/Y config. Also, PTVs of course exist only in F and C on Lufthansa.

Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Because Lufthansa has lost credibility in the premium segment. Who would buy First Class from an airline that has otherwise decided to become deliberately crap (cutting down on service, catering, no PTVs, "new" Business Class which is a copy of what others had ages ago, more and more CRJs on European routes, smaller seats in Europe, etc.)?
 
vivamuci
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:06 pm

I just signed up now to reply to this topic ....

first of all it's right that the a333 comes from airbus direct and the a332 from sabena and swiss.

lufthansa has not lost credibility in premium segment. i fly a lot and intercont only paid first class. as i am based in muc lh is a great choice and frankly spoken they are not that far from sq standard in first. i have flown most major asian carrier in f ... a drawback for lh is the 744 config in first but the service is above sq ... the traditional f customer does not care about service cutback in other classes ... a lot of destinations do not have potential for an pax load that makes economical sense to fly with an f class. so why fly it for prestige. the a333 however serves higher yield destinations so haveing a first on that aircraft makes sense.

i totally agree that their c service product is not good at all ( i know that this is where they, as most airlines, generate a lot of money ).

but someone who says that lh has lost its credibility with premium f passenger can only be someone that never regularly flies in first international.

[Edited 2004-03-18 10:06:57]
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:09 pm

LH is using those A340-600s just where the first class is not justified, because it was either empty or filled with upgrades only. The A340-600 and the 747-400 have more or less the same capacity for LH.

747-400:
16/64/310 = 390
16/78/274 = 368
16/99/234 = 349

A340-600:
54/315 = 369
72/263 = 335

note: those are not mathematical equations  Big thumbs up

SailorOrion
 
mozart
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:36 pm

but someone who says that lh has lost its credibility with premium f passenger can only be someone that never regularly flies in first international.

Vivamuci,

is it arrogance or just ignorance that makes you say things like this (do you actually believe you are the only person on earth flying F?). But then, since you wanted to know what my background is in flying F class, here are my flights in F since January 2004:

CDG-BEY, Air France
BEY-CDG, Air France
LHR-SFO, British Airways
SFO-LHR, British Airways
MUC-JFK, Lufthansa
JFK-FRA, Singapore
CDG-HKG, Cathay
HKG-SIN, Singapore
SIN-SYD, Singapore
SYD-LHR, British Airways
MUC-JFK, Lufthansa
JFK-CDG, Air France
FRA-GRU, Lufthansa
EZE-CDG, Air France
LHR-IAD, British Airways
ORD-LHR, British Airways
CDG-NRT, Air France
NRT-FRA, Lufthansa

The intention is not to brag, but this should give you an idea that I get to see several airlines' F class on a regular basis. I tend to avoid US carriers, and I stick to airlines from one of the big three alliances for FF reasons.

My verdict holds: LH's F has phantastic seats, the other aspects are fine, but unspectacular. This is also what I have stated in another thread .

But in any case, that was not the point of my post, as in addition to your arrogant comment, you did not properly read what I said: I said LH has lost credibility as a premium carrier because of an overall reduction of service standards. I did not say that their F class was bad, I said that overall LH has chosen to strip its services. And, yes, I do care what they do to their shorthaul product. I usually fly to Germany several times a week, and thanks to the nasty habit of using CRJs on many lines from Paris and having an overall dismal service, I avoid them wherever I can for travel between France and Germany. Of course that bad image also affects my motivation to go longhaul with them, even if it is in F.

But good for them you like them.
 
keesje
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:43 pm

~ Half the flight are night flights

- Sleeping comfort / flat beds used to be one of the First Class selling points

- More and more Business Class products offer good/flat sleeping comfort, including LH's new business class.

- It is hard to justify a First Class ticket for business travelers these days, why First iso Business class ? It costs twice as much ...

- Its a world wide trend Co, KLM, NWA, SAS and Delta scrapped First all together, filling the square meters with Business proved more profitable ..

- Many 3 class carriers scrap First on part of their fleets: CX, SQ, BA, AF ...

- The trend is more offering a product in between Business and Economy ..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
fraT
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:47 pm

LH will also change some of their A343 to a 2-class-configuration to meet the demand on certain routes.
So far the A346 are used to EZE, KIX, ICN, YYZ and YVR. I guess that the C/Y product will be used to a lot North American destinations like BOS, DEN, MIA and others, which have not much F demand.

To the discussion above, I think LH is one of the most reliable airlines in the world. They still offer a product above average. I also don't understand why they left out the PTV's but this topic has been discussed to death. So no more comment.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:54 pm

Add to this the fact that most Eurocarriers don't have First on Euroroutes, while in the States the carriers do have First. In fact, on Euroroutes, the only diffs between monkey and biz is a barely wider seat (sometimes), a curtain behind you and free champagne (again sometimes).

As people say, it's hard to fill F on biz routes. Especially given the global economy of the last few years.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:44 am

LH 346s will fly on routes with less premium demand while the new 333s will do premium routes like JFK and DXB. I have only flown on LX in C with the new "flat seats". There is a huge difference between them and the completely flat LH F seats.

While I agree that LH longhaul Y is pretty much total crap, their C and F are very nice products. In C, food is top notch, service great for me (SEN), and the seats are fine. Above all, LH C is a very consistent product and I have never been disappointed. According to a purser on a recent flight, F should be upgraded soon.

The changes to M&M are a totally different matter altogether. A total joke. TG*G here I come...

Greetings from JW Marriott Phuket,

LH747
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
AOMlover
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:23 am

OH MY GOD MOZART !
What a list ! Please tell me you're job, I'm not kidding, my dream is to fly First class, I'd fly long haul every week if I could. I want your job lol.
 
mozart
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:29 pm

AOMlover,

I run my own firm. In any case, my point was not to brag about my flights, but vivamuci - who is a 21-24 year old "product managemer" - really missed the tone of his first post on a.net that I felt compelled to give some qualification to his point of view.
 
vivamuci
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RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:45 pm

mozart,

i am not ignorant nor arrogant i simply fly only intercont as i rather take a night train in europe .. besides that i only need to commute between japan, germany and us east coast... so do a lot of my coworkers and therefor we don´t rate lh by any other aspect. thank you that you try to give some qualification on my point of view but lisitng all your flights here says already pretty much about you. anyhow i won´t argue .. have safe and enjoyable flights
 
Motorhussy
Topic Author
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: Why No First Class On Board LH A340-600's?

Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:54 pm

This move to Business only (as a premium class) bewilders me.

I come from the South Pacific where if you have to travel, you mostly have to travel far for work - Australia's almost domestic.

Recently, we flew WLG-AKL with QF economy, AKL-HKG with CX business, HKG-LAX again with CX business, LAX-AKL with QF business (but were upgraded to first) and AKL-WLG with QF economy.

The Cathay Pacific cabin service in business far surpassed that of Qantas' first class product yet the suites on board QF were far more comfortable.

My summation is that if you're going to invest in the hardware of equipping your craft with a new expensive outlay, then follow it up with staff training etc - it will pay off, otherwise leave it all to CX, SQ, EK etc they are doing it so well.

Perhaps this is what LH is coming to realise.

IMHO
MH
come visit the south pacific