aviationfreak
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DC-8 Super 70

Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:29 pm

DC-8 super 70's, DC-8's reengined with CFM56's. I believe only Delta and United had them in their fleet.

I read somewhere that their range was very impressive. I'd like to know what exactly the performance of the DC-8 Super 70 is/was. And:
- How many of them were there and are still around?
- Which airlines besides Delta and United used them?
- Which airlines use them currently?
I guess many of them are converted to freighters.

What is your opinion about the DC-8 super 70's? Have you ever flown with one? How was it like?

I personally think it is an awesome plane to see. Much more beautiful than the original DC-8. What a few new engines can do isn't it?

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Aviationfreak
I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
 
broke
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:43 pm

110 DC-8-61's, -62's, -63's were converted to -70 series.
The modification included beefing up the wing at the pylons (-71's only), replacing the pylons, re-engining to the CFM-56-2, and replacing the turbocompressor system with an air cycle system for pressurization, heating, and cooling.
The airplanes maintained their original weights, but had significant increases in range, and even today meet the most stringent proposed noise standards.
Delta converted 13 DC-8-61's to -71's and United converted 20; other operators that made conversions included Flying Tigers, Air Canada, the Armee D'Air (-72's) and Trans America.
UPS has 49 -70's series and some these were converted to -70's after they were obtained; UPS has not operated their -70's internationally since 1998.
A couple of -72's are operated by private companies or governments with corporate interiors and these airplanes can fly between any two airports in the world.
 
CV990
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:48 pm


Hi!

Infact the Super 70 was a awesome airplane and very impressive the way the re-engining process came. Beside Delta and United I know that Trans America also did the convertion, French Air Force also did the convertion and UPS also. Besides those operators some governments did that too. I still think that convertion gave some more years to the good old DC-8 and has a cargoship it is still a good option.
At this moment most are cargo planes and there are a few private ones.
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
dc8jet
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:37 pm

Some other airlines that operated the DC-8-71/73 were Air Sweden, Translift,
Overseas National, Icelandair, Condor, Minerve, Aire d Evasions, Kenya Airways, Spirit of America. Freighters were operated by Air Canada, TNT, Flagship Express, Lufthansa/German Cargo, Evergreen, Mexicana, Vasp, Air India, Fast Air, Lan Chile, Tampa, Jet Fret, Zambia Airways.

I think all but 2 of the 71/73 have been converted to freighters and quite a few are still in service.
 
N62NA
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:08 am

I flew on a DL DC8-71 ATL-EWR back in the 1980s.

We sat in coach, just in front of the wing and my recollection was:

1) It was pretty quiet
2) The windows were nice and big
3) The way the rows were spaced, some rows ended up not having a window!
 
Capital146
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:32 am

I remember seeing a Translift DC-8-73 have an aborted take-off at MAN in 1993 whilst departing on a passenger charter to IBZ.

When were the srs 71's retired from passenger service with DL and UA? I remember they were still around in 1985/86.

Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
Luv767s
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:45 am

I don't know for sure when UA retired them but they still flew the DC8s in 1990 b/c I flew it from IAD-LAX and it was a great flight. I remember there being tons of room in coach and huge windows with curtains. I also liked how the baggage was loaded from under the aircraft with this elevator thing. I'm sure it wasn't much later than 1990 that they retired them.
-"...never have I been a blue calm sea, I have always been a storm"
 
Spike
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:59 am

It just looks spookily like the A340-500... Call me old fashioned but I know which one I prefer!  Smile
 
NWAFA
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:00 am

I had the great pleasure of flying twice on UA's to HNL out of SFO. I LOVE the DC8...I think that may be one of two of my fav A/C!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
Spike
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:02 am

And that is exactly what a 757 with 4 engines would look like. I agree with Roberta, drop the 7e7, and go for another four (or was it three?).
 
Spike
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:11 am

Spike's DC-8 flights:

Zambia Airways (62s) - London to Lusaka (via Rome, Itsanbul, Nairobi - engine fire).
UTA (63s) Malta to Paris
Alitalia (62s) Lusaka - Luanda - Rome.
United Airlines (63s) - Los Angeles to Denver

Always wanted to go on the World Airways DC-8-63 that I used to see at LGW.
 
dairbus
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:44 am

I spoke with a UPS pilot a couple of years ago and he said he loved to fly it. He also said he had never taken off with a full load of fuel. I don't know the exact range numbers though.
"I love mankind. It's people I can't stand." - Charles Shultz
 
brons2
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:51 am

Somebody posted on here a while back that they had flown LAS-SYD on a -72.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
ASTROJET707
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:00 am

I used to fly UAs DC8 70's in and out of DEN. They would rocket down the runway on take-off. My last flight was BOS-DEN-SEA in 1989.

ASTROJET707
 
timz
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:07 am

"When were the srs 71's retired from passenger service with DL and UA?"

UA was last: Oct 1991 I think.
 
dairbus
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:14 am

Delta's last DC-8 flight was in 1989. Not sure about the month though.
"I love mankind. It's people I can't stand." - Charles Shultz
 
FlyGuyClt
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:19 am

I flew with my father from CLE to ATL ...Delta Air Lines flight 981. It was a DC8-60(something) before the engine refit. November, 1982. We were late to the airport and got the last 2 seats in the house as is was Thanksgiving day weekend. In the last row of the airplane. Seats A and B is where we sat. Those engines were loud, the plane was packed and fried chicken was served for dinner. Ah, the good old days. And the days of when Dad paid !

Safe Flying  Smile
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
timz
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RE: DC-8 Super 72

Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:27 am

"A couple of -72's are operated by private companies or governments with corporate interiors and these airplanes can fly between any two airports in the world."

So they were fitted with the tankage needed to fly 20000 km nonstop? Why?
 
MIA777
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:29 am


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Are the above two airplanes examples of the aircraft you guys are referring to in the post? If that is the case, I have always loved how Tampa's DC-8s had much bigger engines than the "wimpier" looking -8s of Arrow (below), etc.


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RareBear
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:41 pm

There was a ATI DC-8-70 into CHS yesterday, on a flight from Senegal.

I flew on DL's -70 in the late 80's from ATL to DFW and on to LAX. I sat at the back of the fuselage, and when we encountered some moderate turbulence out of DFW, you could actually see the fuselage twist. It was an erie sensation.
Illegitimus non carborundum
 
411A
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:27 pm

As to performance/range, was told by a Flying Tiger pilot years ago that a DC8-73F could depart HKG at max weight, climb directly to FL330 (unusual for a heavy freighter) and fly nonstop to HNL...about 9.5 hours.
Quite impressive for the time.
 
L-188
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:44 pm

Did Tigers actually pay for the conversions?

My understanding was that they retired the -60's they had and then a few years later bought the -70's
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
pilotpip
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:50 pm

I had the pleasure of getting pretty close to UPS tonight as they start up. I love the sound those CFM-56s on those things make when they start. You can feel it in your gut.


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AnsettAW
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:09 pm

I loved the DC-8-70 and miss seeing them in the sky. I was in high school when I took my first DC-8 flight in 1988 on UA from ORD-PDX. I spoke to a retired UA pilot recently on a UA RJ flight and he called the DC-8 the "Cadillac of the Sky". He said it was his favorite plane to pilot.
Snap, Krackle, and Pop are thinly veiled emblems for the Trilateral Commission.
 
Azmi
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:46 pm

Saudia flew one.





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jetjack74
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:08 am

Here's a site that has all the info you would want on the Big 8! http://www.dc8.org/
Made from jets!
 
aviationfreak
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:39 am

I did a little research myself. Had to dig in a pile of old aviation magazines.

The DC-8-72 had a pretty impressive range at his time. With extra fuel and less payload the 72 even exceeded the range of a 747SP with a range of aprox. 16,000 km.

And that is exactly what a 757 with 4 engines would look like.

I agree if you don't look to the nose and the windows.
Thinking of the range and fuel economics and having 4 engines I say it is the A340 of the eighties

Aviationfreak
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ASTROJET707
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:36 am

Anyone care to comment why the DC8 is still around as an all cargo jet vs.
the B707-320C or B707-420C. Is it simply the volume of the cargo area of the DC8 vs. the B707? I loved flying on both the DC8 and B707.

ASTROJET707
 
Spoon04
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:35 am

I remember distinctly an Eastern flight I made back in '72 from CLE to MIA abord a DC-8 (Series 72 or 73). What an absolutely wonderful aircraft in every respect. Large windows, very comfortable seats and just a great ride. The first DC-8 I few in was an early Delta model complete with window curtains as compared to pull-down shades (circe '65 or '66). Flew that bird from CVG to ATL and connected out of ATL to HOU on a DL 880. What a great trip for an 11 year old aircraft enthusiast !!!
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:49 pm

Spoon04, your 1972 DC-8 flight was almost certainly a -61 of UA. The -70s were not around then.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Spoon04
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:04 pm

IMissPiedmont, right you are re the -61, but the airline I flew WAS, in fact, EA from CLE to MIA.
 
ltbewr
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:20 pm

Another past operator of DC-8's both -63's and -73's was Transamerica, at different times in late 70's to mid-1980's for charter pax, US military pax and freight. For several years in the early-mid 1980's, they did a significant amount of 'scheduled charter' work including JFK-Shannon, Ireland. I was on one R/T in June 1984 (yikes! 20 years ago) JFK-Shannon-JFK. Probably a -63 (note 1984 pic in photo database). Ok service, pitch a tad tight, but rode fine, especially on the daytime return flight with it's bigger windows. Much nicer than 707 a couple of years earlier JFK-LGW.
 
Cody
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:28 pm

I am looking at some interior shots of a United DC-8 that I took in 1990. This particular aircraft does not appear to have curtains for window shades. Can anyone confirm if the United DC-8's had window shades installed in the late 1980's?

Interestingly enough, the cabin looks brand new. Big, enclosed overheads and lots of lighting. Did United refurbish the DC-8's just prior to retiring them?
 
AnsettAW
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:59 pm

There were no curtains on the DC-8 UA I flew on in '88. Just regular modern window shades. The seats were staggered, though, so that some rows did not have a window, as posted earlier. I'm not sure when UA installed the shades.
Snap, Krackle, and Pop are thinly veiled emblems for the Trilateral Commission.
 
L-188
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:09 pm

The Hawaiian Air -60 I flew on in 91 had shades too.

Think it was a common retrofit.
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RayChuang
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:32 pm

One thing though: were the DC-8 Super 70 planes that UA operated ever flew on USA transcon routes such as SFO-JFK or LAX-JFK?
 
DouglasDC8
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:56 pm

Hello All,

As you can tell by my Username, I'm a fan of the DC-8. United had (as I recall)29 of them when I first worked in Newark Airport in 1987. First I would like to address the curtain issue, UA's DC8-71's had an interior much like the 727's or 737's UA flew at the time. There were no curtains on the windows, they had shades. I don't know when the interiors were refurbished, but the aircraft did have large (for that time) overhead bins, the new (for that time) grey UA interior, and roomy (for any time) light brown leather seats in the first class cabin.

The 8's that United flew were, with one exception, in a standard United configuration of 26F/176 if my memory serves me correctly. The baggage and cargo was loaded in containers called "pods" and were lifted into up into the aircraft via a cable lift system, also with one exception. The exception to the seating and loading was an ex-JAL DC8. This aircraft, nose number 2477 (if my memory is correct) was acquired by UA after JAL ran it off the end of one of the runways at SFO. SFO just happened to be the home of UA's overhaul base, so UA was able to purchase and repair the aircraft at a bargain price. That aircraft, in UA configuration, had a seating configuration of 28F/174Y. The baggage and cargo were also bulk loaded.

As for the performance of the DC8-71, I would like to share some of my memories of load planning this machine at Newark Int'l Airport (EWR). At the time, UA was operating the DC8 on routes from EWR to Chicago, Denver, Washington (Dulles), Los Angeles and San Francisco. As one of the DC8 Captains said about the new engines "It was like they added a fifth engine."
I tended to agree with that man, I never had any kind of weight restriction on the DC8-71. I could always put on a full passenger load, as much cargo as we had on hand planned, and plenty of fuel (including a Captain's boost, if requested). The only tricky thing about the stretch 8, was the fact that the large first class cabin, combined with the galleys, tended to make it a tail heavy aircraft. This often translated into operational upgrades when the first class cabin was not full.

Another thing I remember about the DC8-71 was the way it took off and approached the runway during landing. Because of it's length, the aircraft did not rotate as much as today's aircraft. The sensation was that of the entire aircraft lifting off the runway at a with a minimum angle of attack. Once the aircraft was off the ground, the angle of attack was increased for the strong climbout. The DC8 was flown differently on final approach than most aircraft. If was actually flown with the nose facing down until the aircraft was just above the runway. At that point, the nose was pulled up for the landing! It kind of scared me the first time I rode in one. By the way that was a Chicago-Las Vegas flight in 1986.
 
timz
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:16 am

"were the DC-8 Super 70 planes that UA operated ever flew on USA transcon routes such as SFO-JFK or LAX-JFK?"

Suspect not. Maybe SFO to IAD, EWR or BOS?
 
dc8jet
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:37 am

If anyone flew LAS-SYD on a 72 it wasn't on a commercial aircraft. No airlines operated the 72 series. The Saudia 72 was an executive aircraft.

Eastern never operated any 70 series aircraft.

Flying Tigers got their 70 series aircraft from Transamerica.
 
milesrich
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:45 pm

The Super 60 Series DC-8's delivered to United and Delta had window shades. Only the Series 10-20-30-40-50's, the original Eights, had curtains. The Short 8's also had the Palomar seats with the reading lights and airvents in the head rests, although UA modified theirs, and installed overheard consoles, and installed the audio system plug in and controls where the reading light was. United had 31 Stretch 8's, all but the one lost at PDX was converted to Series 70 standards, including the aircraft purchased from JAL (I think that registration # was N8177U)
 
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longhauler
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:01 pm

Milesrich,

Some of the later -50s had shades too. As the last -50s that Air Canada received had the same newer interiors that ACs -61s and -63s were equipped with at the time.

These aircraft did not have the Palomar seats of the earlier -8s. The Palomar seats btw, did not have outboard armrests, as that was a part of the cabin interior, and incidentally, that cabin wall outboard armrest also held the bottom track for the curtains. So my guess would be that the Palomar seats and the curtains went hand in hand?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
lymanm
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:36 pm

Douglasdc8, thanks for the great post! What a memory you have! To me, the DC-8 epitomized my childhood years that inspired my passion for aviation, along with the 727, DC-10 and 747 classic. I don't think today's mass of A320s and RJs would touch kids the same way classics like the DC-8 did.
buhh bye
 
Cody
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:15 am

Douglasdc8,

The picture I took shows coach seats on this particular DC-8 being a brownish-reddish with multi-colored bars down the middle. First Class is burgundy with orange and blue stripes........Similar to TWA First Class seats.

So my question to you is......did United refurbish the DC-8 in the same grey interior that is still out there floating around today? The one with the overall grey and the multi-colored diamonds down the middle?
 
aviationfreak
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:58 am

Hi there!

I have a new question. I read in your BTW very interesting posts that Delta and United for example used the -70s for domestic flights. Where they ever used long haul by any airline?

Aviationfreak
I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
 
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zippyjet
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:01 pm

Regarding reply #6 by Luv
I remember there being tons of room in coach and huge windows with curtains.

Quite interesting. I was under the assumption that interiors with curtains ended with the DC-8 10 and 20 series. (1959 to 1966). These early first generation 8's featured interiors with curtains instead of a shade. In addition, these cool interiors featured the air vents (gaspers) and oxygen mask in the seat back in front of you. And, they had a cool fluorescent light mounted on the corner of your seat back. I miss those retro interiors. Anyone else out there that can verify this. The more recent 8's including the 70 series had a more generic interior. The only vestige of the earlier 8's were the large windows.

I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
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RE: DC-8 Super 70

Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:04 pm

The DC8-71 was not adapted for long oceanic routes (lack of range).
Its payload was also very poor since it was limited to same max takeoff weight as the DC8-61.
Many DC8-71 passenger flights operating Europe to JFK had to stop at YQX or BGR for fuel.
The DC8-63 had longer range than DC8-71s.
I will say that the DC8-73 was an outstanding long range passenger or cargo aircraft.
xxx
I have flown these airplanes, know them quite well - with ONA, during PanAm layoffs.
ONA did not like N917R... it did not last long with them.
It is not the "looks" of an airplane that counts. It is what it can carry and how far can it go.
xxx
The airplane got operated ACMI for Icelandic at times. It could not fly from JFK to KEF if the weather in KEF was with marginal forecast. Either would have exceeded it landing weight for KEF, if it carried fuel reserves for PIK.
Stupid, yes, but for me, the DC8-71 was strictly a domestic machine...
Or... do a LAX or SFO to HNL... that is ok.
xxx
Happy contrails  Smile
(s) Skipper
 
timz
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RE: UA Super 70 Routes

Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:46 am

In 1989 UA had DC-8 nonstops from SFO to BOS-EWR-IAD, and LAX to the same three.

[Edited 2004-03-22 19:47:28]