ord
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:52 pm

If you look at the two United 737-300s painted in the new livery, they have slightly different tail designs (very slight, but noticeable if you look).

N390UA has wider "tulip" bars, and the bottom of the logo nearly touches the bottom of the tail.

N388UA has "tulip" bars that are a tad bit thinner, making a bit more of the logo show on the tail, especially where the tail "juts out" in the front. And, the logo here sits further up on the tail (with more space between the bottom of the logo and the bottom of the tail).

Look at the thin lines separating the "tulip" bars and you'll see how they line up different on the two tails.

I never did learn how to post photos, so you'll need to check for yourself. It's just interesting that United would have a small variation on a brand new scheme. You would think a template would be used and make both tails the same.

Perhaps a United employee can shed some light on this.
 
Boeing777/747
Posts: 543
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 6:07 am

RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:39 am

Ord,

To put an Airliners.net aircraft image on this forum goes as followed:

First type this; <
Than type this code and number (number of picture); photoid:509929
Than type this; >

All signs behind eachother. Do not put spaces between all those signs!
The above code gives this result:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



Regards from tulip country, Holland!
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:44 am

It could be maybe they were painted in diffrent paint shops.

One being done in AMA and the other in ARA.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
Boeing777/747
Posts: 543
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:47 am

Ord,

To put a NOT Airliners.net image, but just an image found on the web, on this forum goes as followed:

First type this; <
Than type this; IMG SRC=
Than type or paste the full URL of the image (jpg); http://www.klm.com/generic/static_img/splash_swan.jpg
Than type this; >

The only space is between IMG and SRC.
The above code gives this result:



I'm not sure wether this way of image linking is prohibited or not.
 
Boeing777/747
Posts: 543
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 6:07 am

RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:50 am

Regards from my Dutch back yard:

 
VS346
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:58 am

Boeing777/747

Now if that's not a picture perfect postcard for the Netherlands I dont know what is.

Had the chance to visit parts of Seeland in 2001. Beautiful.

Cheers

VS346
Virgin-Atlantic: More experience than our name suggests
 
Boeing777/747
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:07 am

I prefer mountains. This flat is soo boring... yawn. The big advantage of living in a flat country and below sealevel is that you can see the planes coming already from very far.
 
ord
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:41 am

Boeing777/747, thanks for the info on how to place photos. Here are the two United tails I was talking about. Look closely and you'll see the difference:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Marcus Anderholm




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Benjamin Vehige



p.s. Your Dutch back yard is gorgeous!
 
Greg
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:02 am

Painted by two different companies not doubt.
What's the big deal?
 
Alitalia744
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:31 am

The big deal is it provides inconsistency with look/logo and overall branding. I think overall the way the tail was designed is just bad, as it doesn't translate well to all aircraft.

-g
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:35 am

Its hardly noticeable...I wouldnt give either plane a second glance if I saw it in person...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
trident2e
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:35 am

Is it OK to use photos on a.net in your posts without the permission of the photogropher, or do you need permission first?
 
Greg
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:37 am

Unless you've been living under a rock, the last thing UA should be concerned about is 'overall branding.' Face the financial hurdles, then worry about paint inconsistencies.

I doubt seriously any consumers would even notice the difference.

I'll agree, the tail design is B-A-D. It doesn't look like anything...let alone the letter 'U'.
 
DABZF
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:43 am

"just" painted in too different places... by too different companies.
You will only spot the difference if you see them at the same time.

But yes, very inconsistent... if you notice it!
I like driving backwards in the fog cause it doesn't remind me of anything - Chris Cornell
 
sunilgupta
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:52 am

What makes you think that it's even paint? The use of gradiants, shading, etc was all made possible by decal technology.

Sunil
 
gigneil
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:57 am

I think its the distance from the subject.

N
 
ord
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:09 am

"Unless you've been living under a rock, the last thing UA should be concerned about is 'overall branding.' Face the financial hurdles, then worry about paint inconsistencies."

In response to your comments, I wasn't worried about the paint inconsistencies but rather pointing out something I had noticed that I thought others might be interested in.

Further, overall branding is something United should be very concerned about. That is a huge part of their overall plan post-bankruptcy. Look at all the successful companies in the world and you'll see they're all built around great branding. And branding does not happen by accident...it is part of an overall strategic plan (which also includes the financials).
 
AIR757200
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:45 am

Ord,

Your really making it a bigger issue than it is. Concerned about the fact that the tulip on one aircraft is a few inches higher (and a minor variance) than the other from the base? I think UA would be more concerned if maybe they painted it the wrong color, like red? As long as the public sees the word "UNITED" on the side of the plane, the brand has been recognized.

Remember, people (passengers) are too busy to say (and to take note) "hey, that logo is 3 inches higher than that plane at C10!" It's the same logo, isn't it?
 
AirOrange
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 am

AIR757200, I agree that the average people do not bother about inconsistency but I disagree with you about the fact that Ord is "making a bigger issue than it is". Professional airlines must be aware of perfect implementation of housestyle items. Misstakes can happen but they also have to be solved and how sooner the better.
 
N766UA
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:10 am

The differences are less noticable than those on the Ted jets. The only dif I see on the 737s is the one fades towards the top.
This Website Censors Me
 
Greg
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:20 am

Rebranding did not help either Pan Am or Braniff (many times over)--nor is it helping US or DL. United chose to paint the planes that way because it was cheaper. Full stop.

Never confuse what the enthusiasts wants with what the business is about.
It is not about paint and nice logos.
It's about safety, economics, and solid planning---operationaly and financially.

If, as you say, their 'rebranding' was paramount in their reorganization plan (which it isn't), then they likely deserver to go under.

A great company is what makes the 'brand.' A new logo or rebranding, rarely, if ever 'makes' the company.

BMW and Lexus are not great because they chose a nice typeface---their monikers are famous because they have the product to back it up.
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:56 am

Seeing these two pictures next to each other really makes the differences stand out. Not only is the logo higher one of the tails, but the color also fades to a darker shade at the top. I have never noticed this before with any airline. I am known to be a perfectionist, and I will usually notice these little, or "insignificant" things. One thing that has always impressed me about all airlines, is the consistencies with their liveries from one aircraft to another. I have always wondered how they get them so perfectly close to each other. But man, that is quite a variation between the jobs done on those two UA 737s. From an operational and business standpoint, I have no idea how big of a deal this really is, and I'd assume little to none. But it is one of those things that once something like that catches your eye, you can never really see it with the same innocence again.

Edit: Made some spelling corrections.

[Edited 2004-03-19 02:00:30]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:34 am

Maybe they did get painted at the same shop. Maybe they saw the first 737 painted and told the company to change the logo a little.
 
EMBQA
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:58 am

The big deal is it provides inconsistency with look/logo and overall branding

As someone that has overseeing my airlines planes getting painted its no big deal and its all part of painting planes. Now..........for me looking at the pictures, I would say the bottom aircraft has the correct tail logo, and my guess is the top aircraft was painted with the wrong masking for the tail. If you look closely, the top U is proportionally larger. I'd say it was ment for a different model 737, or maybe a 757.........and No, its not a decal......its painted on with masking. Last I knew.....UAL only used one paint shop.......in Amarillo, Texas.

[Edited 2004-03-19 02:59:53]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:03 pm

Of the two photographs, the tail logo in the top one looks more like the tail of the first United 777 in the new livery. So I don't know...maybe THAT would be the correct appearance.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:05 pm

I seen the 737 in the top picture of the two 737 pictures at DTW today.
 
mymiles2go
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:17 pm

As hinted at above, it's most likely that United is simply tweaking the design as it see's it on real planes. Nothing more. United has done this in the past as well.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:23 pm

I would say that the tail of the plane in the second picture looks FAR better than the one at the top.

Greg, I would waste some time and breath explaining why the visual representation of the airline DOES matter, but I don't think you'd listen or care.

So I'll say to everyone else instead:


The livery of the plane is the very first thing that you see at the airport, and on the news whenever they talk about an airline. As such, the livery IS the logo of the plane in essence. The actual logo almost always incorporated into the livery (United was the exception until the new colours were introduced.)

So the appearance of the aircraft does indeed matter because like any other logo, it is what introduces the public to your company. It is what sticks in people's minds. So the more attractive the livery, the more eyecatching or memorable it is, the more attention your company is bound to get as a result. It's just common sense.


Some here argue "Who the hell cares what the plane looks like, what matters is on the inside of the plane, the service."

To a point, you're right. But you're also wrong. Service matters, most definitely. But more often than not, you experience the airline's service AFTER having already purchased a ticket on them. They've got your business. Which means that the service on board should be good enough to keep you returning, and also have you spread the word to others about the airline. In a positive sense, the airline would hope.

But until you fly that airline, first impressions are what attract first-time customers. I'll go out on a limb here and admit that United's gloomy colour scheme has never gotten me excited about the idea of flying them. And thus far, I havent.

Even though I hear about United all the time here and am familiar with them, I still find myself MUCH more excited about the though of flying them, with this new colour scheme being introduced.

I can say I'd be much more impressed showing up to the gate to see a plane in the new scheme waiting versus one in the old scheme. It's image. Old United was gloomy right from the moment you see the plane. How much nicer to have a cheerful scheme...one to put a smile on your face as you board, rather than hoping that what's inside the plane is more impressive than what's outside.


It DOES matter.
 
N754PR
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:29 pm

Are they asking OX to paint them  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
ord
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:53 pm

Just to clairify, I am not saying this minor tail inconsistency is a brand issue. My mention of the United brand was about everything else they are trying to do. I think my comments were misunderstood.

Some notes to Greg...

1. "Rebranding did not help either Pan Am or Braniff (many times over)--nor is it helping US or DL."

Rebranding isn't the only thing that makes a company thrive (or survive), but it is certainly one of the things. Name one successful major company that does not brand itself well. Have you ever seen brand equity studies? Companies that have superior brand equity (such as McDonald's) are worth far more than their "real world" value.

2. "Never confuse what the enthusiasts wants with what the business is about. It is not about paint and nice logos. It's about safety, economics, and solid planning---operationaly and financially."

Again, not always true. United's repainting had a lot to due with getting rid of the gray because it represented the "old guard" (although it is cheaper to paint the new scheme). Also, you think Ron Allen and then Leo Mullin at Delta had a new scheme developed because of safety, economics and planning? No, it was because of their egos.

3. "A great company is what makes the 'brand.' A new logo or rebranding, rarely, if ever 'makes' the company. BMW and Lexus are not great because they chose a nice typeface---their monikers are famous because they have the product to back it up."

Not completely true. I worked with Lexus (as a consultant) for many years, before and after their launch in September 1989, so I have real input on this one. The LS 400 was a great car when it came out, but so was the competing Infiniti Q45. Since both cars were similar in quality, content and price, and neither were known entitites, why did Lexus succeed immediately while Infiniti floundered? Simple...Lexus knew how to market their brand and Infiniti did not. Lexus had the great product, but without the branding behind it it would have gone nowhere like Infiniti. I believe there is a case study on this used at Wharton.

For another example, look at Rolex. They are not great watches and do not keep good time. But they succeed, again, because of the brand.
 
Greg
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:04 am

I'll agree that in print and advertising branding does help.

I travel enough to know that most people don't give a crap about what colour the plane is painted. In most airports...particularly internationally..you can't even see the outside of the planes--just a terminal and boarding bridge.

I do not know of a single person (forum geeks excluded) who EVER purchased a ticket because of the way an aircraft was painted...or the way their logo looked. That is not what the business is about--or how it

United chose a simpler scheme because it is cheaper to maintain...period.

ORD--thank you for your comments.
Aloha717--sorry...you're just a teenage enthusiast--I've disregarded your comments.

 
Alpha 1
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:10 am

Whoever said "what's the big deal", doesn't get it. It's pretty piss poor when you can't get the same, consistent paint job on your fleet.

And Greg, you're probably right about the diff between enthisiasts and the general public, but if the paint scheme is THAT noticeably different, then some people might think "jeez, they can't even paint their aircraft the same", and it CAN affect image.

Hopefully, UA will fix this problem.
 
ord
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:26 am

Greg - Thanks for your comments as well. You always provide good input and I look forward to your posts.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Sat Mar 20, 2004 6:18 am

Aloha717--sorry...you're just a teenage enthusiast--I've disregarded your comments.


Regardless of you disregarding my comments, I stand by them. Just because I'm an enthusiast doesn't mean that nothing I'm saying actually applies to anyone else. The paint scheme of the airline IS their brand and it IS what is recognized by people on first glance.

 
UA744Flagship
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RE: UA's New Livery On 737: Tails Are Different

Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:53 pm

As hinted at above, it's most likely that United is simply tweaking the design as it see's it on real planes. Nothing more. United has done this in the past as well.

This is the right answer.

You'll notice that with the first Ted plane (N495UA) and the first 737 (N390UA) in the new c/s that the tulip/U has been retained on the tail in exact proportions.

However, on the 777 and subsequent Teds and 737s in the new c/s, the tulip has been modified.

It has been squished inwards and stretched upwards. Evidently, the aircraft that have the exact proportions were not an aesthetic hit, as all the remaining Teds and 737s in new c/s have been sportin the distorted U.

I don't mind that the U got distorted now... it looks better by fitting better.
no wire hangers!

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