HlywdCatft
Topic Author
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MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:51 am

I just flew into MCO from DTW a couple days ago and my ears are still plugged and popping. I notice this everytime I fly to MCO from DTW, but when I fly to DTW from MCO it doesn't happen while landing at DTW or when I fly to ATL. Why would it just happen to me when I come in to MCO? I am thinking perhaps the plane makes a steeper approach into MCO with all of the other airports around like Sanford etc.
 
DLX737200
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:03 am

Living in Orlando, I have flown in here Beaucoup times and haven't noticed this all too much except for when there is bad weather (primarily summer afternoon storms). However, your theory of the other airports causing this is logical because when approaching 18L or 18R, the planes are vectored to the Orlando VOR and then line up with the runway bringing the aircaft right over KORL. I've flown with pilots at KORL and they've all told me they have to stay below 2000 ft in order to allow clearance for the airliners into MCO. So I assume the MCO pilots have to stay ABOVE 2000 until they're passed ORL. Maybe then is when they have to decend quicker? Just expanding on your theory. Hope I was of some help.
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:17 am

The smooth approaches into DTW or ATL could be because of the pilots using ILS. The steep approach into MCO is probably a visual procedure. Hlywdcatft, did you fly a 757-300?
 
atrude777
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:29 am

Iv flown an MD-80, 757 and a 737 inot MCO from STL and DFW and have also noticed the steep approaches.....the MD80 and 737 was on R17R, and the 757 was on 18L I think it was 18 something. I also noticed on the 737 we had waaaay more tunrs then I had on the 757 and MD-80. the 757 seemed to be a direct straight into runway landing but we did seem to drop heavily and have steep landings.

Alex

ps- i shouldn't say I flew into MCO I rode on a plane into...lol

Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:52 am

When they do the downwind/base/final approach at MCO, they do tend to drop them in steep and tight from my experience. Of course, I was on WN most of the time and they do that everywhere they can.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:33 am

My ears started really hurting a ways away from MCO. My estimate was we were over Ocala at the time because I seen several horse farms and horse tracks below.

Thursday I was on a Spirit MD-80 and landed on Runway 17.

The time before that I was flying a NW 752 from DTW and landed on Runway 36R.

Today I seen several planes doing extremely high approaches over my apartment, a few WN 737s, an Air Tran A320 and a USAirways 762 (landing on 17 because AF1 was using 18R)
 
FutureFO
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:38 am

I do not consider MCO to have a steeper approach than normal. The only thing that I can think of is due to Sea-Level variences. Considering FL is a very low lying state.



Sean from MCO
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
DLX737200
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:49 am

I've seen approaches to runways change daily but here are some of the basic approaches I drew up on my own from memory and experience:


One of the more common ones:



Another of the more common ones:



Another 17R Approach which I have done a few times as an alternate to the
pervious:



Usually used for Weather if I'm not mistaken:



Usually used for weather like the pervious if I'm not mistaken



One of the least used ones: Flew on it once (rode it actually) bcause of severe wx in the area:



Seen it flown many times by WN and flights arriving from MIA/FLL area:














I know there are also many approach patterns from the NE but I have no knowledge or experience from that direction therefore I'm not going to try and guess.  Smile
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:59 am

It's all standard stuff for entering a pattern from any of the 4 corners. This doesn't tell us anything about the horizontal profile, however.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
Ealsys1
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:05 am

I've never noticed anything at all. I've flown into MCO maybe 20 times and no ear popping, pain or anything. I can only guess it's a low lying thing since I've ALWAYS flown in from MIA, 6 ft above sea level!!

Sam
 
DLX737200
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:09 am

I'm aware that this doesn't show anything about the horizontal profile but earlier, Atrude777 made a statement about how having so many turns when he approached MCO.

[Edited 2004-03-21 03:10:28]
 
atrude777
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:27 am

Dlx737200- The 17R approach from the Northwest is the one we did, I remember that one huge turn we did and i was on the right and rememeber seeing the dipped wing, that is very familiar to me, however it was very cloudy and it was kinda raining so we seemed to do more turns then the usual but we took the same type of route that you showed on the map. We flew Southwest straight from STL by the way if anyone was wondering.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
USAir734
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:39 am

My first time to MCO was on a US 757-200 from PIT. I had the same problem. We landed on either 18L or R, not sure which one, but I also had a similar problem.
 
HlywdCatft
Topic Author
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:01 pm

I forgot to mention when I flew from ATL-MCO I did NOT have the ear popping problem, but I am sure we also weren't flying at such a high altitude.

As for the approach I did into MCO on Thursday, it was probably the second or third one down. Like I said, I flew over "horse country" around Ocala, then headed Northwest where I could see the FL turnpike to my right (i had the rightside window seat). I do remember seeing a big lake which I assume was Lake Apopka since it was the biggest in the area. I could see the intersection of Highway 436 and I-4 out my window and at that time I was still heading east before turning south and pretty much following Highway 436 in to Runway 17R.

As for my flight last January on the NW 757, it was late at night and didn't quite have my bearings. I came in from the northwest, possibly overflew some of the theme parks before circling around Highway 417 (Greenway) and landing on 36R.

I've seen planes later at night (coming from SE Florida) when it isn't busy make much quicker turns into MCO. Usually this occurs on one of the late night Florida Cargo flights like Kitty Hawk from MIA and a lot of corporate flights and commuter B1900 flights. I have seen many planes approach from the east as close to MCO as Hoefner Ave.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:15 am

The STAR from the North goes just west of JAX, then straight down the state over Ocala as mentioned, near Apopka, then makes a 45 degree left toward the city. At that point, you turn left to enter the pattern for the 17/18s or right to enter a downwind for the 35/36s. If you are in the north flow, you will, of course, make either one long turn or two short ones to the left to get lined up on final.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
tommy767
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:25 am

I have had my ears pop several times on approach into CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO. Man it REALLY sucks when you have a head cold, and your just trying to un-pop your whole way there. I had that a few times on CO, once on US, and on AA. I also have experienced a steep take off from CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO on AA to JFK (757.) It was so steep I think someone puked 5 rows behind me.

In sum, I do think there are steep approaches into CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
ifly2eat
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:39 am

Normally when cleared for a visual approach to one of the 18's you are cleared for a visual to cross the Orlando VOR (Executive Airport) at or above 2500. This keeps above their traffic pattern. This gives you a bit steeper approach. The trick (for me at least) is to get the gear and flaps out before the VOR and then dive to get back on the normal 3.0 degree glideslope. As far as when MCO is landing north, they tend to keep a tad higher so you don't over fly Kissimmee and its airport too low.
Fly the friendly skys and stay out of mine.
 
bigb
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:35 am

The Ear popping thing is a sea level thing. Plus, if you have headphones or anything covering ya ears. They will pop.
ETSN Baber, USN
 
727LOVER
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:50 am

Worst ear pain I've ever felt while descending was into MCO in Dec. 1992. Horrible!  Wow!
Love Trumps Hate
 
ERFly
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:02 am

Landing in MCO, the aircraft is vectored over the ORL VOR which is located on Orlando Executive. Because of inbound and outbound traffic to Exec, MCO traffic must remain at or above 2500' until south of the VOR. That puts you on a less than 10 mile final to 18L. Its very tricky to get slowed down and to get down to make a decent approach. Most guys slow the airplane get it fully configured over the VOR and then slam dunk it into MCO. Its a tricky approach.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:52 am

C'mon guys... the difference between having an airport at 25', and one at 525' is loose change compared to decending from 31,000'. Think about it! The air pressure difference is negligible at that point.

Not only that, the cabin pressure change is regulated so that there is continual, comfortable change all the way down. Just because the plane is decending at 2500'/min. doesn't mean that the cabin pressure is doing that.

Also, are we talking about ears hurting during the last 6 minutes before touchdown or the final 20 minutes as you decend out of cruising altitude?
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
ifly2eat
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:57 am

Thanks ERFly. Did I miss something?

As far as this ear thing. You have got to be kidding me. An airliner can be descending 4000 ft/min and the cabin will usually keep somewhere around 500 ft/min. Could your ear pain be because you northerners have head colds and sinus infections you don't know about and get on a plane to enjoy the Florida weather?
Fly the friendly skys and stay out of mine.
 
theflcowboy
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:08 am

I thought the cabins were pressurized to 6000 feet or something? If thats true, the ear-popping thing wouldnt matter.
A318, A320, A332, A333, B1900, B722, B732, B733, B734, B735, B737, B738, B772, CR1, CR2, CR7, CR9, MD80, MD81, MD82, MD8
 
TLHFLA
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:08 am

I had a strange approach to MCO last year flying in on AA from STL. We came in from the north, flew over the western part of town, passed the airport, turned toward the east and back to the north and landed on either 18 L or 18 R (can't remember which one) facing north. The weather was good that day, so I am not sure why we had do the "loop."
Bill in ATL
 
FlyboySMF2GFK
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:20 am

The pressurization on an airliner is usually based on a PSI ratio which differs in each type of aircraft. Up to a certain altitude the computer will try to keep it on a "schedule" that is based mainly on comfort (200-500 fpm is normal). If you fly too high it can't keep underneath the max differential which causes the outflow valve to open keeping the ratio in check, hence cabin altitude will climb. If it didn't you may overstress the hull - don't try it at home.

If your cabin altitude climbs over 10,000' the pax will get a nice surprise in the form of the oxygen dixie cups falling from the passenger service units. Also if you do a zoom climb or descent, the computer will try to keep the cabin climb/descent rate consistent (but not exactly) with the aircraft climb/descent rate so that the ratio isn't again busted. This is why a slam dunk approach may feel more uncomfortable - ear block or no.

Maybe some pro's could shed more light.
 
Continental
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:21 am

I flew MSP-MCO last August. I found the approach to be normal, no irregularities whatsoever. Quite a nice approach I must add!

co
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:29 am

"I had a strange approach to MCO last year flying in on AA from STL. We came in from the north, flew over the western part of town, passed the airport, turned toward the east and back to the north and landed on either 18 L or 18 R (can't remember which one) facing north. The weather was good that day, so I am not sure why we had do the "loop."

If the wind was from the north, that's a normal flow... not strange at all.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
HlywdCatft
Topic Author
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:59 pm

**Could your ear pain be because you northerners have head colds and sinus infections you don't know about and get on a plane to enjoy the Florida weather?**

Ummm no, I live in Orlando now for a year and this has only happened on my direct flights to Orlando. I have only flown direct DTW-MCO since I have lived here and thats when the problems happened. When I lived up north and flew to Orlando I had always stopped at ATL whether Eastern or Delta and I had no ear problems then.

My ear is still slightly plugged and I landed Thursday night.

 
HlywdCatft
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RE: MCO Approach Steeper Than Normal?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:43 am

Whats the deal with the last couple of days? All traffic at MCO appears to be departing on the 36's including Southwest, Air Tran, Delta etc that normally depart on 35. Is 35 closed for construction or are they just using it to land aircraft from the south? because I haven't seen anything taking off on it today or yesterday