FLY777UAL
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VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:45 am

I thought I read on a photo caption that VS was selling off its A340-300 fleet...is this true?

How much are they getting per plane?

Thanks,

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:49 am

That'd be nice, but at this point is rather unsubstantiated...
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Jaws707
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:54 am

I believe that VS has sold 2 of their A343's to France to be used as VIP transport. Also there have been rumors that VS will be placing an order for either more A346's or 773's to replace the remaining A343's. If I were VS though, I would probobly keep at least 2 of the A343's to be used to introduce new routes. An A346 has an awful lot of capacity to try to fill a route that is just opening.
 
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Crosswind
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:00 am

Virgin don't own any of them, they're all leased!

G-VSKY has gone to BWIA as 9Y-JIL

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Another pair are due to go to the French Air Force I believe.

I'd expect that further A340-300s leaving the fleet will depend on the rate the airline manages to grow at, and the delivery rate of the A340-600.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
N79969
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:01 am

I would be surprised if they sold them. The market for new airplanes is kind of soft and used airplanes (particularly 340s) may even be softer. There is little sense in selling perfectly good airplanes in a market like this.
 
airchabum
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:06 am

G-VSKY was one of 2 planned to go to the FAF but the deal fell through and 'KY ended up with BWIA. AFAIK no others are planned to leave the fleet in the near future.
Biggidy biggidy bong
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:07 am

There it is! Thank you Crosswind for the pics! I knew my eyes didn't deceive me (minus the "selling" part!).

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
N79969
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:18 am

Did Airbus give Virgin residual value guarantees?
 
frontiers4ever
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:27 am

Why would Virgin order the 77-3ER? They already got the 346. Doesn't make much sense to me.

-Frontiers4ever
Until you prove, your right, your wrong
 
syncmaster
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:28 am

Nothing Virgin does makes much sense....it'll just be who they can get the better deal from, and it may also be a bargining tool for their new US airline.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:33 am

Why would Virgin order the 77-3ER? They already got the 346

Some have speculated that VS might piggyback on an impending SQ 777NG order... though little substantiative evidence for this at this point.
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AA737-823
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:37 am

It doesn't make sense to me, either, as big a fan of Boeing as I am. That said, the rumor IS that they are interested in the 777. Weird.

The 343 seems to be such a mediocre aircraft. What does it offer, exactly, that isn't offered by the (I perceive) more efficient 333? Do I have some figures confused?

R
 
rjpieces
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:38 am

I was under the impression VS was looking at 777s to replace the A343s, NOT the A346s. Virgin's A343s are some of the oldest and their A346s are the newest, so it wouldn't make sense for them to get rid of the A346s now.
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Crosswind
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:40 am

Did Airbus give Virgin residual value guarantees?

-----

N79969,
I say again...

Virgin don't own any of them, they're all leased!!!

Regards
CROSSWIND

 
COTXDFW777AA
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:41 am

All I can say is that a 777 in Virgin dress would be damn sexy.
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Sabena 690
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:17 am

The 343 seems to be such a mediocre aircraft.

Smart and intelligent comment, congrats  Nuts

Do I have some figures confused?

It would surprise me if you would actually have checked some figures...

If you don't know anything about the subject, sh*t up or ask a question. But claiming that the A343 is mediocre without actually knowing what you are talking about, gives you a credibility of zero.

VS still has 4 A346's on order. If I remember earlier postings about this subject, I thought that the A346's were meant to replace the A343.

Frederic
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:21 am

Smart and intelligent comment

...for an aircraft whose specifications are sub-par to its competitor in just about every conceivable venue; yeah, it is  Smile
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boo25
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:24 am


...And of course if they do to Boeing with 777 orders, then they are hypocrites after their long-running "4 engines 4 longhaul" campaign  Insane

Then again, who'd be surprised with Branson.............
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:31 am

then they are hypocrites after their long-running "4 engines 4 longhaul" campaign

You say that as if they already aren't...

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Sabena 690
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:33 am

Concordeboy, as usual you only try to stir things up.

Is the B777 better? Maybe. I have no problem to admit that my technical knowledge about the B777 and A340 is too low to compare both.

But do you see me writing that the B777 is mediocre, or that the A343 is the best aircraft on earth?

It all depends for which purpose you need the aircraft. When the A343 would be so much more worse than the B777, why have several airlines chosen the A343 instead of the B772? Not only for cockpit commonality I guess.

Both have excellent statistics, both seem to perform very good (and with perform, I'm not talking about the slow climb rate on take off, because who cares about this except some frustrated aviation nuts who think that an A340 has to climb like an F18).
 
N79969
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:33 am

Thanks Crosswind. The thread title is kind of misleading then.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:43 am

I have no problem to admit that my technical knowledge about the B777 and A340 is too low to compare both.

So why the longwinded pointless post about it?!  Laugh out loud



All I can say is that a 777 in Virgin dress would be damn sexy

I'd be even more interested to see what/how they name them... good stuff  Big thumbs up
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N79969
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:52 am

"Both have excellent statistics, both seem to perform very good (and with perform, I'm not talking about the slow climb rate on take off, because who cares about this except some frustrated aviation nuts who think that an A340 has to climb like an F18)."

I think if the 340 climbed like a 777 that would be sufficient. The bean counters would probably care about the performance difference here.

If the airplane spends a lot of time reaching cruise, any fuel burn advantage would narrow or possibly be reversed over time. I have read that the 777 can fly the LHR-SIN route 30 minutes faster than the 340. Assuming this is correct and if your pilots and cabin crew are paid by the hour, those 30 minutes will begin adding up fast in direct labor costs. Further those additional minutes start counting against legal duty time limits which could force the airline to hire more expensive flight crew.

Finally any costs associated with maintenance cycles based on flight hours may also increase when the block time is longer.
 
dutchjet
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:38 am

Branson himself said a couple of months ago that he would be in the market for new long-range aircraft for VS......and I think he made specific reference to the 777 line (as well as Airbus products). If Boeing gave VS a great deal on the 777, you can be sure that VS would accept it and would become a 777 operator. This is all about money and deal making. VS would then fly the 346 and 777 side by side, or find a creative way to rid itself of the 346.....it could happen, remember, VS is 49% owned by SQ, and what happened to SQ's fleet of 343s? Right, SQ made the decision to phase out the A343 before Airbus has completed deliveries on the order. This is not A v B, this is much more euro v dollar!

Re the VS A343s, I think the plan was for the A346 to replace the A343s; as mentioned, VS has some very early build A343s (which were originally destined for NW, but that is another story) and the leases are probably near their termination point.
 
QF744
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:18 pm

guys don't forget Virgin has an all 737 fleet for both Virgin Express and Virgin Blue (& Pacific Blue), plus they operate quite a few 744s...

i would not be suprised at all if Sir Dick does a deal with Boeing for his new USA low cost carrier and has some cheap 777s thrown in..

kind of what like QF did to get their 330s in the 380 deal

QF744
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE UPPER DECK
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:12 am

cheap 777s

Something of an oxymoron...
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sevenheavy
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:43 am


Virgin are not currently looking to dispose of any further A340-311/313's. This is mainly due to expansion of existing routes throughout the summer season. Looking more long term virgin are likely to keep a reasonable sized A340-300 fleet for some time yet. They are invariably used to start up routes, with the exception of most high-density leisure routes from LGW, and on routes that will not support the much increased pax/cargo capacity of the A340-600. As a side issue the 777-200/300 is being closely assessed for the future as it is regarded as being more economical on the shorter US east coast routes than the A340-600, whilst offering more pax capacity than the A340-300'S

Kind regards,

SevenHeavy
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
sevenheavy
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:50 am

Sorry, forgot to include my useless bit of trivia related to this post. The aircraft sold (or re-leased, not sure which.) to BWIA, the ex G-VSKY, was the aircraft that was forced to land at heathrow with one of it's main gear bogies still retracted, resulting in about three months worth of surgery to the skin, engines, and other damaged parts of the aircraft.
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
anstar
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:21 am

Well if Virgin are smart they would keep a boeing/airbus fleet so they dont get tied down to one manufacturer.

I reckon the 777 is a good replacement for the 343's going back on lease...
However I think they will keep the A346's.

CX has a 747/A346/777 fleet so I could see virgin doing the same.

Perhaps the low $ could help boeing's chances here... more plane for your buck?
 
warren747sp
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:23 am

The A340-300 does not climb like an F-18.
just like an old lady.
747SP
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:39 am

Be interesting to see what engines they chose for any 777s bought:

Their buy-British approach as well as other incentives for RR...

Or the performance and growth potential of GE?
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Richard28
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:36 am

Commonality may be the game here, they have RR's on the A346 fleet, could make sense to have RR on any 777's.

My bet would be more A340's though, with the A380 entering the fleet in a couple of years, surely it would be expensive to incorporate another type into the fleet at the same time?

Does anyone know what the A345 economics are on short range? I dont think VS need the full range the A346 offers (unless the LHR-HKG-SYD falls through and they have to fly via Perth?), but if the economics stacked up could this be an option?
 
na
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:09 am

As VS is leasing (almost?) all its airplanes and many contracts have a duration of 12 years you can expect that aone or the other A340 might leave the and now as they are the oldest airplanes in the fleet. The first 3 or 4 VS 744s should be also due to be returned or a topic for lease-re-negotiation in 2 or 3 years time.

The VIP deal with France fell through? Why? Is Chirac afraid of "driving the biggest limo" in the EU? I think its important that big countries have a longhaul presidential aircraft that can fly nonstop to Japan or a similarly distant important destination. France doesn´t have it, Germany doesn´t, and the UK is lacking it too.

Besides that:

"...for an aircraft whose specifications are sub-par to its competitor in just about every conceivable venue; yeah, it is "

Typical ConcordeBoy-rubbish. Per seat the 777 is probably the most expensive airliner you can buy on the market. Taken that, it´d better be damn good. Didn´t show superiority to me as a passenger though (and obviously also not for many many airlines worldwide). Even the A380´s sales figures (whose market, as Boeing knows, is very, very limited) beat the "great" 773ER by 2:1.



 
PVD757
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:37 am

Na-
Gee, why don't we look at the whole 777 and A340 line instead of just the comparison that you like. I know you posted the A380, and they don't even compete. But if you're up to that, then I want to compare the 737 to the A330. How about that fair comparison?

According to their websites:

Boeing has sold 467 planes (777)

Airbus has sold 350 planes (A340)

Don't bother looping in the A330 because the 767 has outsold that as well.

Sorry Na, but Concorde Boy has you on this one. I don't hear of too many 777 operators getting rid of them for another type. The A343s are going to the desert where they belong.
 
SafetyDude
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:30 am

I was under the impression VS was looking at 777s to replace the A343s, NOT the A346s. Virgin's A343s are some of the oldest and their A346s are the newest, so it wouldn't make sense for them to get rid of the A346s now.

From what I have heard the 346's were meant to replace the 343s, but Virgin was not terribly happy (I am not trying to start a war here about 346 operators) and their "new" order would continue to replace the 343s.

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:02 pm

Boeing has sold 467 planes (777)


Boeing has sold 631 planes in the 777 family

They've delivered 467.
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Horus
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:12 pm

Concordeboy

Do you know how the rest of the 777 orders are split up between the 5 variants (772, 772ER, 772LR, 773 and 773ER)?
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9V-SPF
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:59 pm

Congratulations guys, someone asked a question about the possibility of VS selling their A340s and the usual suspects managed to turn this into a pissing contest once again.

Why can´t people accept that both, the 777 and the A340 are good airplanes.
The 777 is probably the best plane Boeing has ever built and yes, it has a significant advantage over the A340 as far as performance counts.
However, as somebody mentioned, it is damn expensive which has shown in the last 12 months when there were only few orders.
The A340 has performed well for many airlines and continues to do so but for the majority of the airlines, the 777 meets their requirements better.
All in all, neither Airbus nor Boeing currently builds a "mediocre" airplane. They are all nearly perfect and true masterpieces of engineering.

I think it´s in the best interset of all of us that both manufacturers will have a bright future. That´s why I hope that the A380 and the 7e7 will be successful which would make the other manufacturer consider a similar airframe so that comeptition, which is good for airlines and their customers, remains in all fields.

Daniel
 
9V-SPF
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:05 pm

Boeing has sold 631 planes in the 777 family

They've delivered 467.


Serious question: Aren´t airplanes paid shortly before the delivery flight? I remeber watching a TV documentation about LH picking up a 744 at Seattle where one of the LH executives arranged for the payment after the test flights but before flying the airplane to Frankfurt.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: VS Selling A340-300's?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:46 am

Do you know how the rest of the 777 orders are split up between the 5 variants

772A - 91
772ER - 402
772LR - 5
773A - 62
773ER - 71
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