BD1959
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2002 11:43 am

QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:34 pm

Hi All,

QF have really been pushing the SIN-CDG flights of late: first there was a 25% discount if QFF used points for selected flights, now within the past week QF have released bargain fares to TAs (but not their own website) for SYD/MEL/ADL/BNE/PER-DUB/LHR - the catch being that you must fly QF SIN-CDG and pick up BA from CDG to LHR or EI to DUB.

Which sort of begs the question: are QF really struggling on SIN-CDG??

BD1959
 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:46 pm

I always wonder why the routing is PER-SIN-CDG instead of SYD-SIN-CDG. Is this because QF wants to provide the only direct link between PER & Europe? Why not do PER-SIN-LHR instead?
 
Beno
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 6:52 pm

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:47 pm

Last I heard QF were pushing for extra flights from 3 to 5 a week to try and attract more biz passengers.

I don't think the French are willing to give QF the extra flights.

I personally think QF should drop CDG and fly to Zurich instead makes more sense considering Swiss will soon be a OW member.

 
anstar
Posts: 2868
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:53 pm

The PER-CDG connects with a SYD-LHR so people flying from either SYD or PER can fly 1 stop to wither detination. It is prob better to transfer at CDG than LHR and QF seem to do FRA/CDG connections for most UK/Ireland connections
 
QF744
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:05 pm

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:04 pm

i have flown the SIN-CDG route a few times & usually it's pretty full on the return leg!

but SYD-SIN-CDG does make more sense than PER-SIN-CDG... but then you have to get off the plane in Singapore anyhow!

I would say the route will pick up over summer though
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE UPPER DECK
 
krisworldB777
Posts: 556
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2000 10:28 pm

QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:16 pm

The route is certainly "under performing" for Qantas and it is "under review". The aircraft actually does not fly PER-SIN-CDG but rather PER-SIN-SYD and vice versa so the origin of the flight doesn't make a particularly big difference to the load factor ex Singapore, despite the majority of the passengers originating in Sydney and Melbourne.

The service is currently performing relatively well loads wise between Perth and Singapore given the decent loads to Singapore, albeit with low yields in a market controlled by SQ. Remember though, the International network as a whole is currently in the red.
 
jeffrysky
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:56 pm

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:20 pm

when i last flew the sector just after the SARS period, the flight was severely overbooked both ways!! most of the pax are australian though.

well this promotion by QF is not new. it has always been the pricing strategy by QF to offer cheaper fares to CDG ( and previously , FCO ) , which were not daily services out of SIN. daily services to FRA and LHR were priced higher.

and whenever they have such a promotion, it would be highly successful because some of the fares are really jaw-dropping.
 
anstar
Posts: 2868
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:08 pm

KrisworldB777, where do you get this guff that QF's international operations are in the red????

Geoff Dixon stated to the ASX that all UNITS were operating profitabley...

Meaning International must be doing ok... afterall thier 1/2 yearly profit didnt give an indication of loss making.
 
Matterhorn
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:29 pm

Is Frontier A Low-Cost-Carrier?

Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:20 pm

"I personally think QF should drop CDG and fly to Zurich instead makes more sense considering Swiss will soon be a OW member"

i absolutely agree, especially because LX flies to SIN via BKK. on the other hand, SQ offers a daily nonstop flight ZRH-SIN, so for biz pax, SQ seems to be more competitive in terms of flight duration.
if LX would codeshare with QF on a ZRH-SIN-SYD route, i think they could succeed.
Last Flight: BSL-AMS on EZY, Next Flight: ZRH-LHR on LX
 
miami1
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 10:31 pm

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:03 am

Qantas fly the 747 leg out of Perth to Paris as too provide a 747 product on Perth - Singapore. Its simply just that. this will be changing when the airbus aircraft take over the 747 flights out of Perth to Singapore later this year. The Paris flight will then originate in Sydney. Paris loses money but is seen as a premium destination and too provide valuable UK connex.
 
QF744
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:05 pm

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:55 am

KrisworldB777,

I would also like to know where you get your information that the SIN-CDG sector is "under review"....

Further to what Beno said, QF are looking at increasing services to Paris, so why would it be in trouble?

I very much doubt they would drop Paris off the network!!

Also, with regards to Zurich, QF have been looking at flying there in their own right sometime in the next 12 months. But i doubt it would be at the expense of CDG!

QF744
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE UPPER DECK
 
TBCITDG
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:17 am

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:55 am

One must also keep in mind that one of the reasons that QF initiated these European Flights out of other destinations aside from SYD, was the threat of EK.
Since they could provide sevices out of Perth, Melbourne and Brisbane; QF felt that this threat needed to be faced head on and as a result they initiated CDG flights out of PER, Rome flights out of MEL and other services out of BNE.
Even thought at the end of the day they all crosse over in SIN, they all provide 744 services out of these cities.
 
krisworldB777
Posts: 556
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2000 10:28 pm

CDG

Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:01 pm

The aforementioned comments come straight from Qantas’ monthly statistics for February.

I can assure you that the flights are most certainly operating at a loss due to poor loads and exceedingly low yields. You may be interested to know that the yield on the Paris flights is currently AUD0.447 per kilometre compared with around AUD5.749 for London which has far higher loads.

As has been stated above, Qantas is indeed seeking further flights to Paris because they are currently unable to competitively woo the business travellers with only three weekly flights. At three times per week, the service is hardly justifiable. There is potential out of Paris but Qantas is a long way from reaching a point when they can operate effectively.
 
Qantasflyer
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:13 pm

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:16 pm

This really is the first i've heard of this. As mentioned Qf want to increase flights into CDG. From what i have heard the route is actually one of the more profitable ones, in their Intl network. I very much doubt that Qf will drop CDG in favour of ZRH. Services to Zurich would be great, but i would prefer to see FCO return to the network.

Regards
Qantasflyer That's the spirit. The Spirit of Australia!
 
QF744
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:05 pm

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:41 pm

Qantasflyer,

Bring back FCO ... and add ZRH!!!

While they are at it, why not CPH and ARN!

Now that would be Gold!!!

QF744
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE UPPER DECK
 
anstar
Posts: 2868
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:12 pm

Krisworld,

Iwhere does the info 'the whole intertnational operation is in the red' come from?'

Has Feb been a bad month?
 
Beno
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 6:52 pm

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:23 pm

QF Intl ops have actually improved so much since SARS that QF are opening new flights from SYD-BOM, SYD-PVG, PER-HKG as well as adding additional services to LAX, LHR and HKG.

Doesn't look like they are doing to badly to me.

 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:41 pm

Qantas will keep Paris in its route network: the route is, of course, not as profitable as the London routes - those are an absolute goldmine, but Paris is a premium destination, provides an alternative for regional UK bound or originating pax with many connections to UK regional airports, and business traffic will improve if frequency is increased: 3 times per week service i not enough (even on a very long haul route) to attract lots of premium business traffic. The fact that the routing on the flight number gives a CDG-SIN-PER operation is very unimportant........QF flights out of Europe depart for "Australia" via Singapore: Fly to SIN, and there you chose among nonstop continuing flights to 7 Australian cities.
 
jeffrysky
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:56 pm

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:50 am

i can't exactly remember the details but the reason for QF not being able to get more slots at CDG was because Air France blocked its expansion ?

 
QF744
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:05 pm

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:31 am

i also wonder what the block was at CDG??

surely AF wouldn't have blocked it? they don't even fly to Australia and don't even have a partner on the route!

thoughts?
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE UPPER DECK
 
docpepz
Posts: 1706
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 8:20 pm

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:51 pm

In February, QF had an offer for SIN-CDG for $688 Singapore dollars. That is about 580 Australian dollars. (on a side note, I'm quite sore that the Sing dollar has depreciated by 25% against the AUD!!!) A STEAL. The offer would have ended by 11 Feb.

However, QF extended the offer by another week, and after that, extended it by YET another 2 weeks.

In early March, SIN-CDG was going for about 780 Singapore dollars, which is usually how much a China Eastern Airlines flight to Shanghai costs.

Singapore Airlines and Air France are charging about $1500-$1600 for SIN-CDG and both operate to CDG on a daily basis. Plus, the SQ and AF flights are usually very full every day of the week.

Well I'm one of those who bought the cheap S$688 ticket to Paris on QF, much to Singapore_Air's disgust of course. But there's about a $1000 difference between the QF fare and the fare of the airline who's inflight service everybody talks about. So I really couldn't justify paying the extra thousand bucks for the delicious sarong-clad girls. (erm rather I couldn't justify to my mum... let's get our priorities right here shall we)

It'll be my first time on QF longhaul and i hope to be pleasantly surprised by a good product, as I was pleasantly surprised by fine service on United CDG-ORD vv.
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:38 pm

I think it may well be AF blocking the expansion of the SIN-CDG route. If QF expanded, AF would have more competition since QF would want (and have for their current flights) fifth freedom rights.
 
jeffrysky
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:56 pm

RE: QF Poor Loads SIN-CDG?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:12 pm

Docpepz : QF/BA had exactly the same "Global Deals" promotion a year ago just before SARS and the Iraqi war broke out. Like you, i caught a trip to paris for just 698 SGD. LHR and FRA fares were two hundred dollars more !!

the plane was very , very , very full : negative 16 overbooked, and likewise on the return sector. Seats were equipped with the new PTVs .. entertainment choices were not as broad as SQ/MH/CX , but they had queen latifah so that made the inflight entertainment 5 stars !

a good number of the flight attendants onboard are french ! there was this funny french male FA who announced over the PA "zee beeewaree of pick-pockteurs in pareeez , monsieur and madames".

and i can't forget this elegant blood-red lipped french FA who wore the nastiest , 10-inch stilettoes and treated the aisle as her catwalk ! i really liked the way she ripped open the seatbelt-buckles during the safety demonstration , not unlike the way one would stretch a leather whip !

the QF experience to paris is altogether very 'french'. the australian and asian crew took a back-seat role.

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