QIguy24
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Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:44 pm

RYANAIR SLAMS ANTI-COMPETITIVE OMBUDSMAN

Ryanair, Europe’s No.1 low fares airline today (24th March 2004) confirmed that the consumer ombudsman in Norway does not represent the consumer, and is anti-competition and anti-low fares.

Recent quotes from media have brought to light the following headlines: “SAS and Maersk found guilty of price fixing”, “SAS increases fare’s by 40% where there is no competition.”

Ryanair’s reaction to these anti-competitive and anti-consumer actions has been to increase passengers numbers, increase routes, and deliver an unbeatable punctuality and customer service record and of course deliver the lowest fares available.

Announcing the statement at Haugesund’s International Airport today, Ryanair’s Deputy Chief Executive, Michael Cawley said:

“Ryanair has truly delivered for Norwegian consumers, at a time when the Consumer Ombudsman has done nothing to promote low fares or competition in the interests of consumers. It would appear that SAS can price fix with other airlines and hike up fares where no competition exists with immunity from the supposed protector of consumer interests, whilst the one airline that has brought low fares to thousands of ordinary Norwegians and provided much needed competition to SAS.

Today we are calling on the Ombudsman to start doing his job and promote low fares to Norwegian consumers, encourage competition and stop protecting SAS monopoly. That is really in the Norwegian consumers interest”


Haha!! This is really redicilous!!
SAS and Maersk got caught 3 years ago doing this. And they were both fined very large fines for it.. SAS had to pay 50 million Euros and Maersk had to pay 10 million Euros..
So why are they bringing this one up now.. I wonder if they are trying to damage SAS business or something like that...  Angry

 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:47 pm

Are they really allowed to write things like that?? That's badtalking other companies..
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:54 pm

Of course they can say it - and it needs to be said. The truth sometimes hurts, eh? And yes, it's effective advertising.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:55 pm

Yes and no. It MAY be libel.

Any publicity is good publicity. SAS will not want to get into a protracted legal struggle that they know will make the company look like the bully of the playground.

You could say that Ryanair is playing the odds. And it's not the first time.

"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:56 pm

The truth?? It happened 3 years ago!! And people already know of it. So why did they have to bring it up the same day SAS saved them self from a terrible future?
 
aviaction
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:57 pm

No, they aren't allowed to do so. And most probably, in two years' time a court will order them to stop it. They might even have to pay a fine.

However, until then they will enjoy press coverage worth millions of Euros, free of charge.

That's the Ryanair way of doing marketing. And our press gladly jumps on the bandwagon.

Honest flying to all of us.
Aviaction


German by nationality, European by heart!
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:57 pm

And by the way Pe@rson... Wich Airline started whining when the lost the Charleroi trial?? That wasn't fair deal from FR either..... But SAS doesn't go and blow a big case out of it..
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:58 pm

Let me see - it benefits FR. I would do exactly the same if I was the CEO of FR. It happened, so why not make full use of it? It's effective and intelligent advertising.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:59 pm

It benefits FR??? Please!! Maybe you are right it does. But it's just people like you that think things like that is ok....
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:01 pm

"And by the way Pe@rson... Wich Airline started whining when the lost the Charleroi trial?? That wasn't fair deal from FR either..... But SAS doesn't go and blow a big case out of it..."

But QI - this "whining" of which you speak is FREE advertising. It's very sensible and effective. SK didn't "blow a big case out of it" because it wasn't involved.

I don't know anything about Norwegian law. Under English law, you can be sued if you say something which is substantially untrue and thus affects the reputation of the person or firm. If this was in England or Wales, SK could not sue as it is true.

[Edited 2004-03-24 14:05:05]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:03 pm

"But it's just people like you that think things like that is ok...."

LOL! No.... it makes FR even more of a household name, because people will hear about the airline on the radio, on the TV, in newspapers.... and it will cost the carrier very little if anything. Superb. In a day or two, the average punter would have forgotten about the issue, but remember FR........ tis very good.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:07 pm

Free advertising?? An Airline like FR souldn't be allowed to exist with the "advertising" they are running. They are a disgrace against other airlines!

No SAS wasn't involved in the charleroi case and neither was Ryanair involved in the SAS/Maersk case either. So why the heck did they have to mention this now?
 
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:08 pm

Pe@rson - I don't think FR is fooling anyone in their guise of The Consumer's Champion. Yes, they'll champion the consumer - of OTHER airline's products. As soon as their own consumers need a bit of championing eg. that poor guy who was charged GBP18.00 for a wheelchair, or any pax whose flight has been cancelled by FR, the consumer becomes a whinging scrounger out for what he can get. THIS the public remembers...
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Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:11 pm

If that was the case, J, why would FR be Europe's most profitable airline and why would it be carrying more and more people per year? If what you said is true, then it would be the reverse.

"They are a disgrace against other airlines!"

Umm... the "other airlines" are the competition. Competition is bad. Competition presents a risk, a threat. It is very good indeed to get advantages over your competition.

[Edited 2004-03-24 14:12:19]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:15 pm

Yes other competitions is bad.... I agree. But they compete in a fair way without go around to the media and tell bad things about eachother! And that I respect! This BS from Ryanair is disgusting! Thats not fair competition...
Not even Easyjet does this.. And them I respect!

I used to respect you Pe@rson.. But when you defend this crap I lost a litte respect for you. But you probably dont care anyway..
 
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:16 pm

No matter what you think about this specific argument, Ryanair is the airline that brings people affordable travel. If it was not for Ryanair and other LCC:s SAS would certainly still be charging much higher prices. So what is happening in Norway and also in other european markets is very much in the interest of the traveling public, but maybe not in the interest of SAS and other state owned carriers.
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QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:21 pm

Navigator

I partly agree with you.. You are right that LCC's have opened the eyes on the majors. But they have to do it fair and square.. And what FR did is the biggest crap I have ever seen.
If you see EasyJet for an example... They are very competitive, but they don't go out to people bad talking other airlines like FR are.. And LCC's like them I respect. And not that disgrace so called "airline" FR.
 
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:22 pm

Re: why would FR be Europe's most profitable airline

Because you can fool some of the people some of the time. I'm not saying his product is inherently bad, I'm saying his attitude to customer service and especially service recovery needs some upward adjustment. By and large, when people pay 50p to fly, they don't expect a hell of a lot, and so when (as it very occasionally does) things go pear-shaped, they can accept little or no comeback with the airline, on the principle 'You get what you pay for' . But the same 'f*ck off and die' attitude to customer service also applies to the poor gullible schmos who paid GBP150.00 for their tickets, who would seem on the face of it to at least have a claim to slightly superior treatment, IMHO.

So what is Mr O'Leary's REAL beef with Norway, we ask ourselves ?
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Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:26 pm

LOL. I don't care if you don't respect me, QI. Water off a duck's back, really.

"They are very competitive, but they don't go out to people bad talking other airlines like FR are..."

Umm... if you go to STN, you'll see very anti-FR ads by U2. Not wanting to seem harsh and state the truth is a failure, in my opinion. If one airline is charging considerably more on a particular route, why not take full advantage of it? It's sensible and effective.

Anyway, you will never convince me to change my opinions and vice-versa, so there is very little point trying.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:27 pm

You are right QIguy24,
Ryanairs way of advertising it´s business may be a bit provocative. But then again perhaps some shakeups are needed to change the conservative airline world and make the mega carriers more competitive. If things would go SAS way only Businesstravellers would ever get airborne. And I think both you and I think it´s best that airtravel gets affordable for more people than that.

So maybe both you and Pe@rson have valid points here ?
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QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:33 pm

Anyway, you will never convince me to change my opinions and vice-versa, so there is very little point trying.

I wasn't trying to change your opinion. I know you are a big FR fan and I am a big SAS fan and I respect that. I was just expressing that I think this is wrong way of doing business and should not be allowed.



[Edited 2004-03-24 14:35:04]
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:36 pm

"I was just expressing that I think this is wrong way of doing business and should not be allowed."

I don't understand why it "should not be allowed" because it's the TRUTH! Why let the truth be kept quiet? Everyone has the right to know. That is fair and just.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:41 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with Pe@rson.

- Any publicity is good publicity.
- The rest of the airlines should stop whining about what is "fair". The market only cares about what "works".

EDIT: It's spelled "OMBUDSMAN"

[Edited 2004-03-24 14:45:25]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:44 pm

Pe@rson...

You just don't get it do you?? It happened 3 years ago. SAS and Maersk paid their lesson for it. People already know what happened back then. And forgot about it.

But my problem with this is that SAS has finally complete many months hard negotiations inside the company today, and everybody agreed thankfully. And if you think this is fair to put this to the press today the same day SAS saves themselves it's up to you.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:46 pm

Fair play? It seems like a perfect opportunity. "Business is war."
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:48 pm

Agree completely, Star.

"Business is war." - yep! It's survival of the fittest. Which are the fittest? Those which are the most well-run.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:48 pm

The rest of the airlines should stop whining about what is "fair". The market only cares about what "works".

Starlionblue

What was it Ryanair did after they lost the Charleroi case????
You can start reading their homepage and she how they reacted and told everybody how unfair it was and wanted people to write to the EU with their opinion..

And thanks for giving me a spelling lesson...
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:50 pm

Most wellrunned??? Give me a break! Everybody know hos Ryan air makes their money. The charleroi case and the Århus case showed it very clear.
And poor people in wheelchairs and I could keep going....
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:53 pm

LMAO. You don't seem to understand that FR is an efficient carrier - something which is constantly increasing. These things of which you speak are not as significant, but they do contribute.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:53 pm

Ok, I will amend my statement. You should whine but only when it "works". And I think Ryanair, on the whole, are proving that the know what "works". 2 digit growth anyone?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:55 pm

I think the day when:

1. Governments stop protecting their state carriers by denying traffic rights to competing foreign carriers.
2. When carriers who have gained monopolies during times of government ownership stop making price maneuvers to stop competition.
3. SAS stops dumping prices on routes with competition while keeping prices up on others.

Then I will start complaining about Ryanairs methods. But not before that.

(Hope you forgive me for this statement QIguy24, it´s just my honest opinion)
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QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:58 pm

It's good to see that you are iin a good mood today Pe@rson... Big grin

I know Ryanair is an effecient carrier. But no airline can make so much money by only selling low fare tickets and getting commercial money.. It's amazing that you don't see that.. And I find it very odd that every airport FR has been busted at because they recievede money are now witouht FR. How can that be? Can't they exist there witout getting some funds since they "suddanly" moves to other airports?
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:01 pm

Of course I forgive you Navigator..

But I dont actually agree with you on that one because Ryanair do get funds from the airport they are flying to.

[Edited 2004-03-24 15:02:49]
 
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:02 pm

You hit it right on the head QIguy24. They are best when they have support from the airport. As for getting busted, this was only because Charleroi is a public airport. Private airports can pay FR as much as they like. For myself, I'm just happy I can get a low fare.

As for the amount of money they make, I think Ryanair is publicly listed, and in that case their finances are wide open for your review.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:03 pm

"But no airline can make so much money by only selling low fare tickets and getting commercial money.."

LOL. But they are not only selling low fare tickets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go on www.ryanair.com and look at its fares for travel next week or this weekend - they are high to very high. These unbelievably low fares are aimed at flexible, discerning customers, which is why you do not oftensee them on every flight, for every day, over holidays, etc. These unbelievably low fares are in the minority.

And I am in a very good mood, thanks.  Smile The sun is shining, I am having a thoroughly enjoyable discussion here...
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:05 pm

Hang'em high Pe@rson! Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:06 pm

"Ryanair do get funds from the airport they are flying to."

And why not? If they asked for aid and got it, what's the problem? If SK wanted to fly into some tiny airport, it too could probably get assistance. It does not wish to, so won't. Airports are businesses - they NEED airlines and other things to make a profit. If they give a discount to generate interest, why the problem? If SK is so good, this little deal would be inconsequencial. It's supply and demand - these tiny airports need business, so will lower their fees to generate interest, for very few (if any) airlines want to fly into them. In contrast, LHR does not need to offer lower prices, as there are always many airlines wanting to serve the airport. Tis a simple concept. The only issue is that these so-called traditional carriers kick up because they don't get the discounts. If they flew into tiny airports, I'm sure they too could get a discount.

[Edited 2004-03-24 15:11:11]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:07 pm

I can see that. Down here in the "alps" it rains. No sun here  Sad

And I can also see that we aren't going anywhere with this discussion, It always ends up the with the same. We never agree Big grin
Like I wrote earlier you are a true FR man and I am a SAS man.. No one could ever change that... But I tried my best  Big grin
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:10 pm

Hey Starlionblue
It has been very nice to have a discussion with you.. But don't you think that post was a little redicilous? Big grin
 
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:11 pm

There is a space for SAS. I fly for business a lot, and will definitely pay a premium for SAS compared to FR. Closer to A and B, assigned seating and so on.

But SAS' strategy in the last few years has been flawed in many ways. Snowflake is a step in the right direction. However, they need to understand that Euroroutes are LCC central from now on. Get with the program. Even BA are cheap now.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
aircadet
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsman!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:11 pm

I get the feeling the Scandinavians are just sticking up for there airlines, don't blame them for this. Ryanair have helped millions of persons get around Europe for nothing which is good but I don't think they fall into the class of a real Airline.

Always remember that Major carriers employ thousands of people in many countries and if your job is threatened by some cheapo foreign airline you too would be pissed.

I for one would always support my national carrier more than a foreign one, even if the fares were a bit more expensive. At least they'd fly me at decent hour to a major airport.

Again just my opinion.
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:11 pm

What Ryanair receives from airports and local communities is peanuts compared to what SAS has gained during the years of state protection. This has virtually made SAS what it is today. The position gained has given SAS a monopoly and financial strength that has enabled them to beat all competition in scandinavia during all times. What we see now is the first steps towards real competition in this and many other markets in Europe previously dominated by state protected carriers like SAS.

The recent trend set by Ryanair and Easyjet has forced SAS, BA and others to lower prices and to take steps to get competitive in a normal competitive market. Whatever subsidies Ryanair may get it is still peanuts compared to what the likes of Air France and other still get in the forms of preferential treatment from their governments.
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QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:12 pm

Oh noo. What should I do? I rather go and hide.. Big grin
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:13 pm

"There is a space for SAS."

Definitely! There will always be demand for full-frills airlines. Some airlines will try to supply this demand. I am very glad that choice exists.

"However, they [SAS] need to understand that Euroroutes are LCC central from now on."

Definitely! I reckon that there will only be 3 main airlines - AF, BA and LH - all of which providing connecting flights. Point-to-point flying will be left to the low-cost carriers.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
tripple7
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:14 pm

"And why not? If they asked for aid and got it, what's the problem?"

There is a problem when it is paid with public money!!
However, I don't see a problem if it concerns a private airport and FR gets paid by the owner of the private airport.
 
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:18 pm

"There is a problem when it is paid with public money!!"

Don't state airlines give their airlines considerable money? Doesn't that money come from the general public? I think so.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:23 pm

Tripple

I wish I could agree with you on that one... But Navigator is actually right.
And I finally admit my defeat in this discussion. SK, KL, AF and all the other airlines have also recieved public tax money from the government. And that's exactly what Ryanair is doing now. So the other major airlines are actually no better then Ryanair when it comes to this.
But all I wanted with this topic, was to say that I thought this statement from Ryanair against SAS in my opinion was unfair.
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:24 pm

But I must say it was nice to know that you want to hang me Pe@rson.  Big thumbs up
 
QIguy24
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:40 pm

Thanks for the support Aircadet.
We really are proud of SAS. For me I'm even more proud of SAS than i am of the royal family..
And SAS has always been my favorite No 1. and will always be.
Thats Why I couldn't accept what Ryanair was writing.
But like Pe@rson say: The strongest airline will survive. And I hope that SAs will survive after they will make the changes in their structure.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Ryanair Slams Norwegian Ombudsmand!

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:45 pm

QIGuy24: I agree that it is unfair, but I still think it was a good idea.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo