nycfuturepilot
Posts: 773
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:50 am

Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:10 am

I was on-line booking a flight to LAX and one of the options that cam up was Airtran but it was operated by Ryan Intl. Whats the story with this?
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
jetskipper
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2001 1:50 am

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:15 am

The B-717 doesn't have the range to operate ATL-West Coast. So until AirTran aquired aircraft with suitable range they subcontracted Ryan to operate the service. When AirTran starts to recieve the next gen 737's, Ryan will get the boot.
 
nycfuturepilot
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RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:50 am

Are the west coast routes profitable for them?
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
quickmover
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:54 am

With the first 737 deliveries about 3 months away, I'm wondering if we will see the 737 show up in the schedule soon.
 
BeltwayBandit
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:25 am

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:00 am

It's called a "wet lease" where the aircraft and crew are operated for the lessee. The aircraft (although painted like Airtran) is operated by Ryan Int'l and on Ryan's FAA Operating Certificate.

With Ryan as a middle-man, there is probably little, if any, profit in the deal for Airtran. It's a placeholder until the Airtran equipment can catch up.

[Edited 2004-03-24 23:05:52]
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:28 pm

AirTran is not currently seeing a profit at both it's LAX and SFO stations. LAS, however, is profitable.

As for Ryan, AirTran signed a one year contract. They've been operating on AirTran's behalf since June 4, 2003..... they'll be gone soon. Don't know how the contract extension is going to work yet....

Travis
 
WidgetBoi
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RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:18 pm

Travatl,

Is the contract with Ryan the ONLY reason that flights to LAX and SFO aren't turning profits?

jeremy
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:56 pm

Yep.....although they were slow to start, both local and connecting traffic has dramatically increased. New SFO service starts in May as well. More service to both cities should be seen this fall....

Travis
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:43 am

Another reason the flights aren't profitable is that the people in ATL are still flying with DL instead of FL on those routes. We came into the ATL-SFO market at the time when the fare was $727.00 one way. AirTran became the price leader in that market with a fare of $115.00 or so, one way.

The ATL people need to realize the concept of "use it or lose it".
If they don't support the carrier who drove the price down, the carrier cannot continue to bleed red ink on the route. The people of ATL and other cities, like DFW where I work, need to support the low cost carrier because without us in the market, the good folks are getting screwed with high air fares !!

Just my two cents..........

 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:46 am

Kudos to Jay Davis. Kudos.
Puhdiddle
 
quickmover
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:50 am

Agreed Jay. Especially when the product is as good or better.
I'm wondering if frequency isn't the problem out west though. I realize you can't have the chicken before the egg and FL can't be flying empty planes just to have frequency, but 2 departures compared to 8 or 9 on DAL makes it tough. How does FL do with 7 dailys to ATL compared to DAL to ATL load wise?
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:05 am

We do well from what I am told about the DFW-ATL runs.

The airline business is a VERY testosterone driven business.
For example, when we just announced expanded service from
DFW to BWI in June, adding one more flight, the AAnti-Christ
added another themselves. I think they now have 9 flights a day
to BWI.

Same situation in ATL with Widget.......when we started SFO service, DL added about 4 more flights a day. You can't tell me they are making a ton of $$$$ on that route either..........

I know this will never happen, but why can't we just all get along?

There is plenty of business in both ATL and DFW for both AA and FL and DL.
Why do we have to "one-up" the other airline???? Doesn't make sense to me to be adding even more flights just because your pissed that our airline adds another flight........we are sooooooooo small at DFW compared to AA and DL that it isn't even funny. Yet they continue to add capacity and the industry as a whole has not even begun to fully recover...........stupid moves in my opinion on both parts by AA in DFW and Widget in ATL.


 
quickmover
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:17 am

I think it's all about staying power in the end. Flooding the market is stupid if your competitor isn't going away (which I hope FL doesn't or like WN in PHL). I would think that over time AA and DL would come to the conclusion that FL isn't leaving and hike the fares back up so that everyone makes more money.
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:59 am

We are not going anywhere! We are a profitable company and have over $300 million in the bank............

 
quickmover
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:07 am

I'm betting that when the 737s arrive LAX will go to at least 3-4 a day and with that frequency comes more business travelers. I had heard on a conference call that were it not for paying the ryan air wet lease fees, LAX would be profitable with FLs own aircraft.
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:15 am

I would tend to agree with you on everything you just wrote Quickmover!
We just needed to start service to LAX and SFO from ATL and that was the only choice available more or less, at the time.

Ryan has done a good job with the service, we just will do a better job with our own cabin staff and pilots.........

 
rumorboy
Posts: 295
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RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:18 am

Don't expect the 737s to fly to the west coast right away. From what I have heard they will stay around the southeast for a while. Mainly doing ATL-MCO,ATL-FLL, ATL-TPA, ATL-BWI. Flying from one maintenance facilty to another. Keeping a eye on the bird before they cut it loose to the west coast. I think Ryan may be around until the end of the year. They did the same thing when the 717s first came on line.
 
quickmover
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RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:20 am

Jay,

I don't suppose those 737s could arrive any earlier than June could they? Isn't there some sort of trial runs that have to be made before a new aircraft enters service? Are we looking at July before they enter service?
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:23 am

I don't have the answers to those questions. I'm sure they will be up on line ASAP..........no doubt. Just not sure of the dates.


 
rumorboy
Posts: 295
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 1:06 am

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:38 am

737s will be here in June and will start revenue service July 1st. They do have to do proving runs but thats suppose to only take a couple of weeks. There are already pilots going through class(check airman and sim instructors).
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:40 am

I wonder why we didn't order the 737's with the winglets? I do understand that they cost $1 million for a pair, but you'd think with the fuel savings that the plane realizes in the long run, they would pay for themselves.

We might "re-think" this issue since fuel is now sky-rocketing !! I know we don't do nearly as much long-haul flights on a 737 as WN which is where the winglets really come into play, but ATA has them on theirs.........

Any thoughts????

 
quickmover
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: Why Does Ryan Intl Operate Airtran Flights?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:41 am

Since they are already announcing new service for June, these jets should be in the schedule soon.