S12PPL
Topic Author
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

For The PDX Locals....

Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:47 am

I've been checking the Port of Portland site recently to see their "Master Plan" progress, and I've seen the two concepts for the Centralized, and Decentralized plan for PDX's expansion...Does anyone know if they are planning on adding that other terminal any time soon??? Any chance Alaska and Southwest might team up to make that expansion a worth-while expendature for PDX??

The reason I ask this, is with Lufthansa adding service last year, and Northwest adding service to NRT in a few months...Maybe another terminal would help attract airlines such as BA, or others to add more international service. Everyone says PDX couldn't possibly support international destinations.....but with companies like Nike, Hewlett Packard, Intel, and many others which send employees international. I think this could be justified. My brother, and several friends all go to Germany, Japan, even India on business with "tech" companies every year several times.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: For The PDX Locals....

Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:53 am

The PDX international market with the addition of NW will be very saturated for a market of its size. Heck, MX is talking about pulling out because loads are terrible, LH cut back to 2x daily I believe it was in Feb. and I think it will go back to daily soon, but still. I would be very surprised to see more than 2 overseas flights from PDX at anytime. The days of DL running a transpac hub is over.....
 
flyboy80
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: For The PDX Locals....

Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:12 am

What we must continue to keep in mind is that PDX is always an "interest" in reguards to foriegn markets. The travel base does exist there, however when delta pulled out for their reasons, that didn't neccesarly leave a gap, but It did leave oppritunites for other air carriers to expand out of PDX. Who knows what the future of PDX will be, reguardless, I would say its safe to say that for international overseas services, PDX has a lot of potential "looming"
 
flashmeister
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Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: For The PDX Locals....

Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:13 am

First, the only other int'l service that PDX could support is perhaps Canadian service or a flight to LHR/LGW. Even that is questionable.

Second, there is plenty of capacity for int'l flights left on D. Changes have already been made to shuttle pax to the new int'l meet/greet area in bag claim to prevent the need to reclear security at the end of D. Changes are coming to allow transfer pax to go between D and A/B/C via a shuttle bus, although it's not clear if it's for NW's int'l pax only or for all pax.

If it's for all pax, then AS could potentially use narrowbody gates on D for further expansion. There's a bit of capacity for the taking there.

Finally, PDX is nuts if they think that an additional terminal is a good idea. They have new infrastructure at the terminal, brand new roadways, a new light rail station, and a pretty efficient operation except for the baggage screening machines in the lobby (and that's being addressed, I think). They have concourse A (Horizon regional), which is now the oldest (and nastiest), and could definitely be redeveloped for major expansion. They have concourse B, hardly a concourse at all, which could also be redeveloped.

If they needed more space -- which right now they don't -- they could rebuild B into a regional facility, move A ops to the new B, and then redo A as more of a traditional concourse with perhaps a hammerhead to cram a few more a/c in.

The Port has no need, no money, and no support for a new separate terminal. I don't think we'll see any expansion at all -- much less a new terminal -- for some time to come.
 
kwbl
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 11:55 am

RE: For The PDX Locals....

Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:13 am

I think PDX has more than a large enough facility to handle it's growth for the next 15 to 20 years. There are many unused gates and a few gates that handle one or 2 flights per day. I do not see that the terminal concepts in the master plan will ever happen. I agree with Lamberman that MX is probably gone soon (I would hate to see it but frankly the loads have never been over 65% for any month and in some months have been in the 30 to 40%). LH was down to 3x in Feb and is back to 5x and will be daily in April. LH is doing better than MX though the load in January and Feb were not real good. LH is carrying a lot of cargo so that helps. I think the NRT flight will do exceptionally well (NW already carries many PDX people to Asia via SEA and with the QX feed and an economical aircraft, I see this will be the best performing intl route). I do not see BA ever coming (service to SEA), especially if LH continues to operate at PDX. I could see an Asian carrier or a 2nd NW flight Asia if the Oregon economy turns around and the Asian ties to the community continue to grow. I think this is the best one can expect in the next 10 years
 
StevenUhl777
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: For The PDX Locals....

Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:22 am

Does Bermuda II allow for PDX to have service to LHR or LGW? LGW...maybe.

I also have looked at this centralized/decentralized concept...interesting, but not needed right now. I think it should be shelved for another 10 years.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
kwbl
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 11:55 am

RE: For The PDX Locals....

Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:52 am

I think Bermuda II would allow PDX as a gateway but only if one of the existing gateways was not being used-I could be wrong there but it seems PDX and MSY and one other city (maybe MCI?) are in the same boat
 
doug_or
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

A

Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:58 am

I really don't see any more int. service to PDX either. the only major service increases I'd see might be an increase in p2p flying on AS as per their 2010 plan. other than that, current facilities seem pretty adequete.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
S12PPL
Topic Author
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: For The PDX Locals....

Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:40 am

I think PDX could lure BA into one flight a day....a few times a week to LHR. While working for QX I saw a TON of people connecting to SEA to fly to LHR on BA....
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: For The PDX Locals....

Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:27 am

You won't see BA in PDX anytime soon with LH there. I don't think you'd see them there without LH in PDX. BA is having problems making money in much stronger markets such as BWI, DTW, and DFW, so that leads me to believe that PDX would have trouble. SAN would probably be the first to get (resume) service. Besides, with SEA sitting right above it, there isn't a need nor the demand.
 
roseflyer
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: For The PDX Locals....

Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:52 am

I just don't see PDX getting much more for multiple reasons. I agree with previous posts, and an additional issue is that PDX is almost 100% O/D with the sole exception of many connections from LH passengers going to SEA. There are a number of small markets in Oregon and Eastern Washington such as MDF, EUG, and PSC that have connections to PDX with AS and QX, but most of these cities have more flights to SEA, which has a bigger population and more connections. SEA benefits from the entire pacific northwest region because of AS and QX and even some UAX. PDX just doesn't see the connections to make it worthwhile for an expansion, especially with the emphasis that AS puts on SEA. 1 flight to Europe and 1 to Asia is probably all that the 1.7 million people that live in Portland can sustain.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
StevenUhl777
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: For The PDX Locals....

Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:07 am

I still can't believe "Leneld" hasn't replied to this yet....
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: For The PDX Locals....

Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:44 am

I think Bermuda II would allow PDX as a gateway but only if one of the existing gateways was not being used-I could be wrong there but it seems PDX and MSY and one other city (maybe MCI?) are in the same boat

FLL, HNL, MCI, PDX, and of course MSY  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Leneld
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:00 am

RE: For The PDX Locals....

Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:30 pm

StevenUhl777...I haven't replied to this forum because I'm now traveling India for 3 weeks..Apparently ,Mexicana airlines haven't completely given up on PDX for they are planning to add one additional flight out of Portland for a total of four per week. I do agree that the present facility layout could easily handle traffic at PDX for the next 10 years but look for four concourse extensions to occur during that period on E(5 gates), D(3 gates), A&B(?) consolidated with an additional terminal connected to the A..Beyond that from a business perspective it would be wise for the Port to use the existing facility as efficiently as possible and try to get those airlines operation cost down...One day I wish I could read on this forum something positive about Portland potential besides all of this negative stuff....
 
flyboy80
Posts: 1812
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: For The PDX Locals....

Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:42 am

What I WISH is that we would get Mainline UA back here (EUG) there is certainly the capacity building (11 RJs a day, 3 of them 700s)I think we should just go back to four 735s to SFO a day and 2 cr7s to DEN!
 
S12PPL
Topic Author
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: For The PDX Locals....

Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:22 am

Flyboy80- Until QX and Skywest/Air Wisconsin start lowering airfares out of EUG...they will be hard pressed to fill those flights regularly. The Eugene Airport is a pretty big sponsor of Oregon State, and they advertise in Albany and Salem I believe....However, I checked flights out of EUG to DEN in September last month....and even that far in advance, the cheapest out of Eugene was $499.00. I'll fly out of PDX, even if I DO have to drive an hour and a half each way.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX