mozart
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Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:21 am

LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:29 pm

Lufthansa just sent a press statement saying that its new European and domestic Business Class will be launched on March 28 (http://konzern.lufthansa.com/de/html/presse/pressemeldungen/index.html?c=http://konzern.lufthansa.com/dlh/newstool/nachrichten/app/show/de/2004/03/752/HOM&s=0%0a%20%20%20%20%20%20, in German, sorry).

Alhough their claim to be in the first and only European airline to seat pax only in window and aisle seats on flights in Europe is wrong (Air France does that since some years already), I welcome this as great news and a definitve improvement in service from an airline which usually reduces service quality.

However, how will they implement this on the CRJs? Will they leave one free seat next to each Business Class pax? In other words, the 2-2 config will change to a 1-1 config? That would be cool and much needed, as even then the CRJs are very uncomfortable. I just can't imagine they do that, or will they?
 
9V-SPF
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:09 am

The CRJs are operated by Lufthansa Regional so I guess they are not taking part in the new C-Class layout. However, a 1-1 configuration would be really cool...

Daniel
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:13 am

As far as I know, the so-called "new cont-product" will be implemented only on LH mainline which is a separate company from CL - the CRJ operators.

Also, before you praise LH for improving service levels - have a look at the meal service (or lack thereof, in Y) as of Sunday. Plus, no more leather seats??? Please, even FR upgraded from cloth to leather.

Daniel Smile
 
9V-SPF
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:17 am

I know many here think different but I found the new cloth seats more comfortable than those ugly leather seats.

 
lmml 14/32
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:19 am

What will be lacking in the Y class service?
 
Andreas
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:30 am

9V...so do I, I never liked those leather seats!!

I don't think these are particularly ugly, but I don't like the feel, especially when it's warm in there and you've got the sun shining in through the window...thanks, but no thanks!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
LHSTR
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:48 am

Most people go for either aisle or window seats, and do not like the middle seats.

With the new product, It means that there are all middle seats open.

As there are no middle seats in a CRJ, there is no differnence to today. However, on Avros the middle seat will stay empty in C. Also on the A300 there will be two empty seats in the middle section.
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:15 am

>>>What will be lacking in the Y class service?

Meals.

You´ll get a sorry-ass-excuse for a snack on flights over two hours. E.g. a 2x7x1 cm pizza in a box. You´ll get a real (cold) meal on a tray on flights over 2.5 hours - not many of those around in the LH cont network... To quote one stewardess: "So on an FCO flight the pax get this tasty biscuit which is finished by the time we´re over STR. Then they start asking 'Hey, nice starters, what´s the main course?'" Oh, and no Special Meals on Contflights any more either.

As of Sunday, the meal service on AB will be better than on LH, at a fraction of the prices. IMHO, that´s a dangerous strategy: LH try to cut costs in order to compete with low cost airlines. That´s illusionary, so they´re stuck with service cuts and still high prices. Well done. They should pursue being a full service carrier with a full service carrier´s cost structure and a full service carrier´s fares. Relying on one´s own core strengths rather than copying others´ (and failing miserably) would be the way to go.

Daniel Smile

P.S.: Am I a dinosaur, bound for extinction???
 
eric
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:23 am

The reason why FR chose leather seat is beacuse they are much cheaper to maintain and keep clean. SAS has also had the policu of a free middle seat, but when they overbook they fill up that seat. Its actually quite smart, if there are few pax in C, then they can slide the curtain forward, and vice versa. Maybe they will, unlike, SAS (and AF) always keep their middle seat free?

Eric
n
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:33 am


>>>The reason why FR chose leather seat is beacuse they are much cheaper to maintain and keep clean.

That´s exactly the point! Nobody does any long term thinking any more, just sucking up to share holders´ interest in short term gains.

>>>SAS has also had the policu of a free middle seat,

I was on an SK 738 with a FIX 2-3 configuration in the first 5 rows. I´m sure the snowflake pax appreciate that  Laugh out loud - me being one of tem, seated in 1A both ways...

Daniel Smile
 
Metropolitan
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:37 am

Here is the English version of the press release:

http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/html/presse/pressemeldungen/index.html?c=http://konzern.lufthansa.com/dlh/newstool/nachrichten/app/show/en/2004/03/362/HOM&s=0%0a%0a%20%20%20%20%20%20

As LHSTR says: They only claim to keep central seats free. On non German routes operated by e.g. the A320 family the seating is already 2+3 so they only have to block 1/5 of the seats. There is no middle seat on the CRJ routes.

//Per

 
Dexter
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 9:51 am

Well, the CRJs have a 2+2 config, so ANY seat is either an aisle or a window seat. In the normal 3+3 cabin many airlines use this strategy, so this concept is nothing new.
So...ehhm..well done LH for following the lead.

[Edited 2004-03-27 01:57:14]

[Edited 2004-03-27 01:58:01]
 
Phaeton
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:25 pm

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.", Winston Churchill
 
mozart
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:22 am

Also, before you praise LH for improving service levels - have a look at the meal service (or lack thereof, in Y) as of Sunday. Plus, no more leather seats??? Please, even FR upgraded from cloth to leather.

Airsicknessbag,

don't worry, I won't say too much good about LH service. In fact, if you read my other posts in this forum concerning LH service, you will quickly find that I think LH's C class is the worst dump of all the major European airlines I know from more than the occasional flight (BA, AF, LX, OS). LH is great for people that want to travel from point A to point B as hassle-free as possible, but don't expect more than prison-like service. As a matter of fact, by now I avoid them whenever I can to use one of the above instead. And by the way, I think the same thing of their intercont product: their "new" C class is a joke, they have seats of a type that VS kicked out because pax did not like them, and LH's stubborn refusal to install PTVs is symbolic of their interpretation of the word "quality of service".
 
Leskova
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:38 am

Daniel/Airsicknessbag - you're not really expecting long-term-thinking, now, are you?

The almighty god, otherwise known as "shareholder value" has declared thinking beyond a maximum of 6-12 months as a sin which will give you a fast track ticket to eternal damnation...

But seriously, I'm not sure how long this will, or can, go on: major airlines thinking that they can compete with LCCs by taking away the frills, offering a few seats at prices that are lower than what they used to offer, but usually still quite a bit higher than what the LCCs offer, but at the same time doing nothing (or at least not enough) to actually get their own cost base to the level that it would have to be at to really be able to compete... and since that would probably have to include taking away things like checking your luggage through connections, frequent flyer programs and a few other things, I doubt any major non-LCC will ever get far enough.

The solution: stop annoying the people who fly with you regularly, and have done so even throughout the time when you were even more expensive than you are now - and give these pax back some of the comforts known from back then: otherwise, carriers such as LH are doing nothing but actually delivering the proof to their own passengers, that flights on LCCs really cannot be that bad... there isn't much less service on them, the seat pitch won't be too much smaller, but the price will still be lower.

I think that LH, and others, are walking a dangerous path...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
jwenting
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:40 am

Check the seatmap and you'll see that a 2-2 config has ONLY window seats and aisle seats so there's no need to keep any seats empty!
Of course businessclass in many other aircraft like 737s also has a 2-2 config so effectively there's little or no change  Smile
I wish I were flying
 
mozart
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RE: LH "free Middle Seat" In Europe - How On CRJs?

Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:45 pm

I know that CRJs only have window and aisle seats, so there is no "middle seat" to be left open, BUT the point for a passenger is not to have a free middle seat, but to have the seat next to himself free so he has more space. He does not care whether that free seat is a middle or an aisle seat.