N777UA
Topic Author
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Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:33 am

I was thinking earlier about United's decision to start Ted service out of O'Hare later this spring. I think it is a good idea. All of the low-fare service in Chicago is out of Midway Airport. As far as I know, the only low-fare air service at O'Hare is Spirit Airlines.

As I myself live in the northwest suburbs of Chicago, O'Hare is a much more convenient airport than Midway (30 mins. vs. over an hour). Having a low-fare airline that much closer, plus with Ted's link to United, I think has very good potential for Ted and United in general. I looked up the prices...$157 ORD-FLL on Ted vs. over $300 on American for the same day/time.

What do you think?
 
syncmaster
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:36 am

I would imagine it would be, especially with the possibility of B6 coming to ORD once they get the E190's. Should give United the upper hand, even though they had it to begin with, you know not just any airline can try and take on United at ORD, on top of American as well. That's an uphill battle all the way.
 
Guest

RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:40 am

Oh God, please don't tell me you think TED's coming to ORD to lower fares as an LCC would... the only thing TED's going to do is match LCC's fares... that FLL fare is either an NK or WN price match...
 
WidgetBoi
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:40 am

Bringing TED to O'Hare is a brilliant move. Good job UA  Big grin

This may be off topic, but I was wondering if Delta Express flew to O'Hare? I'm pretty sure Express flew to Chicago, but I can't remember which airport they operated out of? And as a side note, does anyone know if DL plans to bring Song to Midway or O'Hare?

Thanks for the help Big grin
jeremy
 
BeltwayBandit
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:45 am

Ted is not "linked" to United. It is United. It is certainly good for consumers that Ted will come in and match the prices of LCCs, but with a United-type cost structure, that only means they'll bleed more money than before; and this time they'll do it at the expense of a couple of legitimate LCCs.

You can put a pig in a tutu, but you can't make it dance.
 
N777UA
Topic Author
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:45 am

It's not the matching Southwest fares that I mentioned....its that Chicagoans can fly on a LCC out of O'Hare now rather than going down to Midway, which for much of Chicago is a very inconvenient airport.
 
scottysair
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:45 am

Yes, it is coming to ORD with those 5 cities to PHX, LAS, FLL, MCO & TPA. It would be good for me with Ted and also, my friend Steve Belleme was gave me with the hat.
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:53 am

Ted may be of benefit a little but ORD needs some true LCC action, more than the few flights offered by Spirit. Watch for FL!! I believe ORD is in for a major revolution of LCC competition in the future, especially following its expansion which at that point it should handle the traffic a lot better. Lets watch what happens with PHL for the time being!
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
syncmaster
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:59 am

No I don't think they will match other LCC prices, but they will get the upper hand on the ORD traffic. Not to mention that many people in and around Chicago have those MileagePlus accounts, and being able to add miles to those using a LCC. Cha-Ching.
 
CactusA319
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:27 am


Ted does bring low fares to ORD but if you look at some of those markets they are serving the low fares were already there on the mainline flights. I could easily get a good fare to FLL or LAS on UA mainline without Ted. Ted is doing nothing more than taking over low-yield cities for mainline flights. Big whoop. I'll take them seriously when they start flying to LGA, LAX, SFO, SEA, etc. but that'll probably never happen. And its great that I can get low fares to rack up my MP miles but what sucks is I can't upgrade.

As for jetBlue and AirTran at ORD. Both airlines are interested but there just isn't any gate space for them right now. They could use the International Terminal like Spirit did when they opened ORD but the costs of operating at that terminal are too high for an LCC, which is why Spirit moved to Terminal 3. However I seriously doubt AA or UA will give up any of there underutilized gates to an LCC.

 
ORDINDUAFLYER
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:32 am

Jury is still out on this one... I live in the NW Cgo 'burbs and as such, am only a 45 min drive to ORD (on average, sometimes 35, sometimes 60 depending on traffic), but a 1.5 hour drive to MDW with little traffic so I don't even "shop" fares on the MDW flights. The concept of a LCC at ORD is a positive one. However, every year I take a trip (on UA) ORD-MCO and have yet to pay more than $200 for a ticket bought a couple months in advance...will TED be able to offer the same or better? Initially I was frustrated about the thought of not being able to upgrade on the ORD-MCO flight, but it's only two hours in air (so I suppose I'll have 4 more 500-milers to use for a mid-con) although I'll miss the extra seat width! At least there's still E+... If they have BOB offerings (I think I saw that they do/will?) that will make it easier than the delicious "variety pack" from last year. Also, ability to earn MP miles & EQMs is key.
 
N777UA
Topic Author
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:36 am

Buy on Board is/will be available on all Ted flights.

United flight attendants affectionately refer to the Buy on Board service as "doing BOB on Ted".
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:36 am

"Bringing TED to O'Hare is a brilliant move. Good job UA
"

Brilliant? Since when is changing the color scheme on a couple A320s "brilliant"? If anything it's more of the same, just different branding. No big whoop.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:39 am

MaverickM11, the prices are much lower. Ted is supposed to compete with the LCCs, and brings a LCC type price to ORD as opposed to only having LCC's at MDW. who said anything about changing the c/s of the 320s?
Life is better when you surf.
 
ual777
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:41 am

Uh, CactusA319, have you ever been to UA's Terminal 1 at ORD? Their gates are not what I would call "underused". UA would burn down Terminal 1 before another airline got a gate there.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:44 am

"MaverickM11, the prices are much lower. Ted is supposed to compete with the LCCs, and brings a LCC type price to ORD as opposed to only having LCC's at MDW. who said anything about changing the c/s of the 320s?
"

Doubtful. They were competitive with other carriers before Ted and they won't unecessarily lower fares to be competitive with some fictitious entity that wasn't there before Ted's entry. They were competitive with AA, WN, TZ, etc before Ted, and they'll continue to do so during Ted. How does brining a low price to ORD help UA? Just like in Denver, UA matched F9 fares and now Ted matches F9 fares....no difference, just different colored A320s.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:16 pm

ORD, as stated above, is much more convenient for many people in Chicago. It will help UA because a lot of people now have the option of a lower fare at a more convenient airport.
Life is better when you surf.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:39 pm

"ORD, as stated above, is much more convenient for many people in Chicago. It will help UA because a lot of people now have the option of a lower fare at a more convenient airport. "

Let's recap:

1) The fare environment at ORD has not changed much before during or after Ted.
2) LCCs in ORD are few and far between with the exception of a couple flights by NK.
3) The competition at MDW has not changed dramatically before during or after Ted.
4) UA competed with everyone at ORD before during and after Ted. Their pricing was influenced by the same inventory mix at MDW before during and after Ted.

Take ALL of that into consideration, and think: do you think United, who is 'revenue-ly challenged' is going to dramatically lower its prices at ORD, when the competition mix hasn't changed? That would not help UA's revenue problems at all, and in fact would hurt it. For all I know they may competing for the sake of it, but someone is then going to have to explain why they'd start competing differently when the environment hasn't changed!?!
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:32 pm

It says Ted will start service later this spring. Would you think it may take some time then to see what sort of impact this has on the travel environment around Chicago? Are airlines simply going to unecessarily lower their fares as soon as they know that a LCC is going to begin service? It would more likley be smart to wait and see what happens before making a decision.
Life is better when you surf.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:50 pm

I do agree that it's important for United to try using different methods to defend its turf, but I really don't understand what Ted is going to do. Same frequency, same planes, same fares (UA Mainline had to lower fares to compete anyway...) - basically, same airline. Just a different name and no FC.

I think UA put TED on these routes because they are threatened by B6 (and who wouldn't be?). Neeleman has said publicly that they'll fly into ORD instead of MDW - so UA will definitely take that seriously. And note - TED is going to TPA, FLL, and MCO. These are all the FL cities that B6 flights to/from BOS. Makes sense to think that they'd do the same thing w/ ORD.

JetBluefan1
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:56 pm

I just thought about this, so its up for debate, but maybe UA is banking on Ted, being viewed as an LCC, so people will choose to fly it more than other airlines, and it will generate profits that way. Ok, obviously not all of their profit that way but maybe that could help em out a bit. Your thoughts?
Life is better when you surf.
 
N777UA
Topic Author
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:14 pm

United is not banking on Ted for survival...Ted is meant to help add some dough to the bottom line that might otherwise go to another LCC. What United is banking on is getting the mainline profitable, which it nearly is.

Putting Ted at O'Hare (which has no LCC other than Spirit) will attract a lot of people who would otherwise drive to MDW to fly Southwest or ATA, to ORD to fly Ted. Keep in mind that for people who live in the northern half of the Chicago area, Midway is a horrible pain in the rear to get to. Plus, flying Ted earns travelers MP miles they can redeem on mainline United to get them anywhere in the world. You can't get to Beijing, Hong Kong, Sydney or Frankfurt on ATA or Southwest.
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:30 pm

I know UA isnt banking on Ted for survival, but I ment that UA is banking on people seeing Ted as an LCC which will attract them to ORD.

I do agree with what you said though in your last post, N777UA.
Life is better when you surf.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:37 pm

"United is not banking on Ted for survival...Ted is meant to help add some dough to the bottom line that might otherwise go to another LCC
"
I would have gone to UA anyway!

"Keep in mind that for people who live in the northern half of the Chicago area, Midway is a horrible pain in the rear to get to."

Exactly, which is why MDW doesn't have such a strong effect on ORD....which is why UA and AA et al don't have to lower their fares to MDW's price levels for similar destinations...which is why Ted is unnecessarily lowering fares when they were competitive with all other carriers at ORD to begin with....which is why Ted at ORD is only going to reduce revenue for UA. Someone from the UA Board of Directors that authorized PLEASE explain the rationale behind it to me!!!
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
nwa747-400
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:51 pm

Just flew my first flight on Ted from DEN-LAS and I could not have been less impressed. Plane was dirty (I am talking carpet, seats, seatback pockets, and blankets strewn all over), they didn't have any peanuts/pretzels, and the only thing that made it different than UA mainline was there was no first class and the plane said Ted on the outside , oh and the napkins were Ted too.

Watch for my trip report coming soon. You know I am not one to judge an airline by a single flight, but I had high hopes based on all the advertising and marketing. Bottom line, it's UA w/o first class and it MIGHT be a few bucks cheaper sometimes.

-------------------------------------------------------
Northwest Airlines. Now you're flying smart.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:01 pm

First off i don't know how ted would be competing with LCC's by charging over $200 roundtrip to DEN and SFO from PHX. (last i checked thats how much it was.) Second TED is a marketing scheme that is based on hype there really isnt much difference except for those PTV's. My uncle works for delta and he heard that the original plan for Song would to sell it off completely after awhile. I do not know if that is true or not but if it is I would think UA would follow suit.

And. Are there mainline flights on routes that TED serves?
 
chicago757
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:36 pm

ATA will still kill Ted in fares. I guarantee that!
Go White Sox!!!!
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:04 pm

Buy on Board is/will be available on all Ted flights. <~~~ When is this service supposed to start, what types of meals will be offered and the prices? Would I need to call UA Reservations in advance for my BOB?

A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
Guest

RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:37 pm

"All of the low-fare service in Chicago is out of Midway Airport. As far as I know, the only low-fare air service at O'Hare is Spirit Airlines."

Um America West serves O'hare as well.
 
LJ
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:00 pm

Is United planning an all TED service to LAS and PHX from ORD? If so, what are they going to do to keep the international premium traffic on UA (as they didn't pay for such a downgrade)? Or is premium connecting traffic on these routes very low and thus not a big loss?
 
ord
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:42 am

I posted this on the other Ted thread and thought it applies here as well: I just helped a friend book a trip in December from Chicago to Ft. Lauderdale. All the airlines lowest fares are available...none are sold out at the lowest fare level. Check the websites and see for yourself how low Ted's roundtrip fares are on this route:

ORD-FLL
Ted: $157
Southwest: $210 (out of Midway)
American: $360

My friend has flown this route for the past 20 years and the lowest fare he has ever gotten was last year on Delta at $190. Before that it was Delta in 1984 at $200.
 
ord
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:45 am

IndustrialPate,

"Oh God, please don't tell me you think TED's coming to ORD to lower fares as an LCC would... the only thing TED's going to do is match LCC's fares... that FLL fare is either an NK or WN price match..."

IndustrialPate, see my post above. Ted's fares on the ORD-FLL ($157) route are significantly lower than Southwest's lowest fare in the market out of Midway ($210).
 
ord
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:50 am

"ATA will still kill Ted in fares. I guarantee that!"

Chicago757, as my previous posts have indicated my friend is flying Ted ORD-FLL in December for $157 r/t. ATA's lowest fare for the same days was $445.
 
ord
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:54 am

"Exactly, which is why MDW doesn't have such a strong effect on ORD....which is why UA and AA et al don't have to lower their fares to MDW's price levels for similar destinations..."

MaverickM11, MDW pricing has a very big effect on pricing at ORD. All you need to do is check the fares out of ORD to places like DTW and STL. United and American have low prices in place to match Southwest out of MDW. But check another 1-hour flight from ORD that Southwest doesn't fly to, like Minneapolis, and you'll see the fares are much higher.

Also, MDW competes heavily with ORD for the bread-and-butter market that lives in downtown Chicago.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:10 am

"MaverickM11, MDW pricing has a very big effect on pricing at ORD"

Of course it does but it still affords UA and AA and other carriers at ORD a premium over prices at MDW. The competition at MDW has a less strong effect than if it were at the same airport at ORD, which it is not.

"Chicago757, as my previous posts have indicated my friend is flying Ted ORD-FLL in December for $157 r/t. ATA's lowest fare for the same days was $445."

Could mean one of three things: either TZ is already booked in December, or UA is giving up almost $300 in revenue that it could charge, or UA is offering introductory fares in a new market.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
CactusA319
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:22 am


ORD, I'm not sure about your friend, but I've found fares lower than $200 on ORD-FLL in the past few years on AA, UA, and WN. I guess it all depends on the dates. I'm thinking the Ted fares are so low because they're introductory fares in a market they're trying to gain a foothold in. Check back in 6 months and see if that $157 fare is still that readily available. Like I and others have mentioned, it's not like UA's fares to Florida were all that high to begin with. It's merely a change in product. Why fly mainline at dirt cheap fares when you could fly the "lower cost" version at the same fares and not lose as much, if any, money?

As for UA777's comment, yes I've been to ORD Terminal 1, and considering the fact that I work there on a regular basis, I've probably been there far more often than you. That said, the Department of Aviation was looking to see if AA and UA could free up some of their lesser-used gates for new entrant airlines. AA is renting one of their gates on the L concourse for Spirit, but as expected both airlines are reluctant to give out any more of their gate space, especially to airlines like B6. UA is still pretty busy, but it wouldn't kill them from an operational standpoint if they leased 1 or 2 gates. However as you said, that's not going to happen.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:37 am

"Why fly mainline at dirt cheap fares when you could fly the "lower cost" version at the same fares and not lose as much, if any, money? "

Barring some creative-Enron style accounting, Ted's 320s and UA's have the same CASM.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:05 am

No they don't because you have more seats on Ted than on UA MaverickM11. Cost Available Seat Mile. Ted has more seats the cost is spread over more seats therefore lower CASM.

You have 12 F and 126 Y on a UA A320. From working the gates I can tell you that only 1 or 2 people actually paid for full F the rest are Y class UG's. So if you had a full flight you have maybe 136 Y fares (if your lucky and noone has used thier award tickets) and 2 Full F. Ted has 156 Y seats to sell. Even going out with seats empty you still make as much as you did with a full plane in standard configuration. If you fill it to capacity then every passenger over 136 is gravy. Multiply that over the course of a day with higher turn around times than mainline, and you really bringing in money.

So it is good to see UA expanding Ted. I thought it was a mistake not to expand Shuttle. And it's slow growth hampered its effectivness. Ted's rapid expansion is just another reminder that this is NOT shuttle part 2. Things are different on Algonquin Rd.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
alphascan
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:54 am

UALPHLCS:

Your numbers assume RASM is equal on TED and the mainline. If they are, might as well just change all domestic flights to the TED brand now and be done with it. However, they're not. Time to recalculate.

No award tickets to FLL, PHX, SFO, LAS, TPA and MCO? What kind of assumption is that? All of those destinations, except maybe FLL have got to be in the top 10 domestic award destinations.


"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:14 pm

Buy on Board is/will be available on all Ted flights. <~~~ When is this service supposed to start, what types of meals will be offered and the prices? Would I need to call UA Reservations in advance for my BOB?

This is from my post #27 but hasnt been anwsered yet...so does anyone know??

A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
ILUV767
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:18 pm

The f/a will give you a little menu listing your selections. Cash or Credit cards are accepted.

I L U V 7 6 7
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Ted At Chicago O'Hare = Smart Move

Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:22 pm

Thanks for the heads up, that was fast. Credit cards are accepted in-flight? How cool! Thanks!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.