ROP
Topic Author
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Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:40 pm

Guys
The krungthepdurakit, Thai-language newspaper reported yesterday that Thai has done a request to its board to dump A300-600 flleet of total 21 aircraft to upgrade its performance. They said this is subjected to be done if Thai need to climb up its position to the better world rank sine the A300 is so much outdate for both business and economy sector and unworth to be improved.
Meanwhile they also said to request to the Airbus for the faster delivery of its ordere A340s flleet since it failed from the UA 744 deal earlier.
Sorry i could not post thee source here since it 's from the real paper not from the website, and yes it's in Thai.

best regards
ROP
 
NeptunesCar
Posts: 97
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:44 pm

I will miss their A300's on regional routes. do you know where you can get the tail numbers and names of all the 21 aircraft?
You call it the world, we call it home. Pan Am.
 
nethkt
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:58 pm

I don't like TG's A300s. It's time to get rid of them, old aircrafts.
Hope Thai will have A340-500 and -600 soon, also more 744 and 772ER!!
One more thing, please upgrade the IFE now!!! :-(
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
ROP
Topic Author
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:17 pm

personnally, i think TG will replace those A300 workhorse with A330-300. what 's your comment??
 
behramjee
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:33 pm

Yes all AB6 routes will in the future be replaced by A 333s which seat 70 more pax than TGs AB6s.

I would advise TG to keep a few of their 21 AB6s and convert them into AB6Fs as it will come in handy for cargo regional flights to India-HKG-CHINA-JAPAN-ICN-TPE-SIN and KUL-SGN-HCH.

Well now Iran Air can express for interest for TGs AB6s as they desperately want modern aircraft of the late 1980s era.
 
wingtip
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:44 pm

Neptunescar: got this from JP Airline-Fleets International 2001/02:

HS-TAA Suwannaphum
HS-TAB Sri Anocha
HS-TAC Sri Ayutthaya
HS-TAD U Thong
HS-TAE Sukhothai
HS-TAF Ratchasima
HS-TAG Srinapha
HS-TAH Napachinda
HS-TAK Phaya Thai
HS-TAL Sri Trang
HS-TAM Chiang Mai
HS-TAN Chiang Rai
HS-TAO Chanthaburi
HS-TAP Pathum Thani
HS-TAR Yasothon
HS-TAS Yala
HS-TAT Srimuang
HS-TAW Suranarre
HS-TAX Thepsatri
HS-TAY Srisoonthorn
HS-TAZ Srisubhan


 
greaser
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:25 pm

It would be stupid to overlook the 7E7 in this matter, they should look into it...
Now you're really flying
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:11 am

Some of their A300s are only a few years old. complete waste of money buying them.
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:27 am

Wow... Wingtip! You sure have a lot of time on your hands!  Big grin

Anyway, I am all for the good riddance of the A300s. Thai has had them for a while now and they are starting to look aged, especially the interiors. The Business Class is a disgrace to it's standing as an international carrier.
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
gigneil
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:38 am

It's time to get rid of them, old aircrafts.

Roughly the same age or younger than the worldwide 767-300ER fleet.

Some of their A300s are only a few years old. complete waste of money buying them.

Really more of a waste getting rid of them. Replacing them with 333s isn't really a one-for-one swap.

N
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:47 am

Thai has had them for a while now and they are starting to look aged, especially the interiors

The interior quality has nothing to do with the actual quality of the aircraft, it simply reflects the priorities of the airline. There is no real replacement aircraft for the A300 other than the 767-400, and that is obviously not going to happen. The A330 is heavier and is not well suited to shorter-range routes (QF experience). Why doesn't Thai just redo the interiors if that is all that customers care about and save the money. The used aircraft market is in the toilet.
 
ANA777Master
Posts: 289
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:25 am

Sawadee kop ROP and Nethkt-

I'm disappointed that TA didn't go with Boeing. Me and my Thai gf only fly ANA unless were flying to the north or south, and then will we only fly TA Smile
 
Korg747
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:44 am

CPDC10-30,
I agree that the 764 is quite perfect for the replacement. It has both engine commentality with the 744s (GE) and cockpit operation commentality with the 777s that Tg has. Also, the 764 has a range of around 4000nm which is what the A300-600R has. So why TG would not pick it? unless they want to wait for the 7E7 then I can understand.
Please excuse my English!
 
kaitak
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:45 am

It is best to do these things while the fleet is relatively young. The A300-600 is a good aircraft and if it can't be sold for pax use, it can be converted to freighter use. TG uses both GE and PW powered aircraft (maybe all the -600Rs are one engine type?), so maybe Air HK, which has recently ordered A300-600Fs could operate them.

Because they're not so old, I don't think there will be a huge urgency about this. Airbus must be the favoured supplier, particularly as there are already A330s in the fleet and A340s to come. I'd say A330-300s will figure in the order, but TG should also look at A330-200s. As well as being very useful for regional flights, they can also be used on long haul flights, for example to Europe, Australia and NZ.
 
nethkt
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:15 am

Hello ANA777Master!!

Are you an ANA staff in USA? Just curious  Big grin I also like ANA. I flew ANA back in 2001 when they flew NRT-ORD with 772ER. Want to try the new F class!!

Yeah, I prefer 777ERs over Airbus 345 and 346. The interior of 777 are much better and looks comfortable!! I think the government gets more commission from Airbus than Boeing.  Sad
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
User avatar
solnabo
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:18 am

Why wait for the Dream On Liner, IMO the best option is to get A332/333!
Cheers  Big thumbs up

Michael//SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
Airbus Lover
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:47 am

I think this is not of top urgency on their LONG list of to-do things to bring them on par with competition.

They have a shortage of aircraft now and definitely not in a position to dump planes when they do not have the funds to purchase more "new" aircraft. Personally I think the UA deal was a pretty sweet one but TG would not budge for a slightly higher price tag which would still prove to be viable for a bunch of relatively new aircraft that are all well maintained...

AB6s are doing them a lot of good in their network on short to medium haul routes and nothing can really replace them except the B7E7 and to certain extent the A332. They have great cargo capability the B764 doesn't. Adding a totally new type into their fleet doesn't really make sense.

I do however agree that the A333s would gradually replace them as their network grows and demand increase and the extra 70 seats would not be too hard to fill. A332s would be an option.

Rest assured, I think they will still be in their fleet for the next 5 years AT LEAST. Some of them are relatively new A300-600Rs. I believe last few examples delivered were in 1998. Cargo conversion can also be a good idea WHEN they actually do leave their pax fleet. I have to agree that on some of them an interior revamp is much needed but this shows nothing about the plane's efficiency from the technical side of things. They are still their backbone workhorses to build their network in the region (medium haul routes) as these A300-600Rs have pretty long legs up to 7000km.

It will be interesting to see and a replacement is inevitable but I'm sure it will take quite a while seeing they have no rush, and even if they do, seeing how long decisions get made in the TG board, we need to WAIT.  Smile

Thai... a great airline!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
warren747sp
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:47 am

A better option would be the B767-400 to tie them over until the 7E7.
747SP
 
Skyguy
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:51 am

Thai have been trying to streamline their fleet for a long time. When the airline was run (and still is to an extent but less so now) by Air Force generals, the fleet had all sorts of aircraft, BAe, Airbus, Boeing and McDonnell-Douglas's. The costs of maintaining and servicing so many different aircraft types and engine poew plants was very high. To that effect, sometime in the late 90's, management endeavoured to get rid off spare aircraft and try and focus on just two types of manufacturers.
By getting rid of their old Airbus's, this makes their fleet swing more towards a Boeing heavy fleet.

"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
 
Leskova
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:06 am

Warren747sp, just out of curiosity...

in what way would introducing a new type to replace another type, of which some planes in the fleet are still quite new, only to serve as a stop-gap-measure until yet another plane becomes available constitute "a better option"?

And, Skyguy, how does removing the "old" Airbusses constitute a "swing more towards a Boeing heavy fleet", considering that Thai will soon start taking delivery of A340-500s and A340-600s?

Happy contrails,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
ka
Posts: 573
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:22 am

Here an interesting link to the A345/6 issue.
http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/040401/15/3j70i.html

KA.
Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
 
gigneil
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:19 am

The B767-400 is not a replacement option. TG wishes to haul cargo on their AB6s.

Also, that's just like replacing a 767 with a 767 or an A300 with an A300. The 764 is still a 767.

N
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:35 am

Leskova

Diplomatically put Frank. Here here!

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
warren747sp
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:53 am

HI, Leskova
Just because an airline owns say A340 does not mean automatically that they will have to go for the A330. If Thai wants to get ride of their existing A300, that's their choice.
Of course the A330 can haul more cargo than the B767. But I am not sure how the 764 would compare with the existing A300 in this regard.
The A300 isn't the plane with the best reputation quite a few have crashed with different carriers and 2 with Thai.
747SP
 
AMS
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:02 am

Warren747SP,

What caused the TG A300 to Crash?, When did this happen?

Regards,
AMS
 
gigneil
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:06 am

The A300 isn't the plane with the best reputation quite a few have crashed with different carriers and 2 with Thai.

A fair number of 767s have crashed as well.

N
 
warren747sp
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:11 am

The one that crashed in Nepal and the one in Bangkok. I don't know the cause of the crash but maybe someone can post it.
747SP
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:25 am

Are you sure you aren't thinking of their A310s?
 
warren747sp
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:36 am

Yes, I think you are right. Are now both A310 ? I think the one that crashed to bits in Nepal is the A300 and the A310 in Thailand.
But airlines in Europe are now actively retiring the A300 into freighters and favoring the A330 80% of the time.
747SP
 
Sydscott
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:52 am


Can I raise the issue of how Thai intends to finance this???? The last I heard they weren't in a particularly good financial position. Can they afford to replace the A300's at the moment??
 
brons2
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:04 am

Oh brother.

There's nothing wrong with 21 perfectly servicable A300-600s. If the interiors look old-upgrade them! If it's true the latest were delivered in 1998, then these planes are not that old.

These planes are good short to medium range people and cargo haulers. Both the 767 and A330 are unacceptable compromises on these sorts of routes. In the absense of some rational replacement plan, I don't see the point in all this.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
elephantboy
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:20 pm

The report from Thai-Rath, another Thai language newspaper says that the idea of dumping A300-600s was just raised by Commercial Department of TG in order to modernize the product. However, TG's president, Dr. Tanong Bhidhaya, stated that the idea was not necessary at this moment (because TG is still in lack of aircrafts) especially when some of its aircrafts will be leased out to Nok Air, its LCC. The fleet plan has to be done in a long term basis.

I think A300-600 is the right size aircraft for TG for its less dense regional and domestic routes. TG may not consider 767 as the issue of A300 and B767 was debated long time ago and conclusion was that B767 had disadvantage of its cargo space that could not accomadate ULD pallet of LD-3 size which was common in B747, DC-10 and now for all the wide bodies that TG has.

"Can I raise the issue of how Thai intends to finance this???? The last I heard they weren't in a particularly good financial position. Can they afford to replace the A300's at the moment??" From the news report TG's president said that TG has liquidity of 30 billion Baht (750 million USD) at the moment.
 
Guest

RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:41 pm

Anyone who says buying 767's to replace the A300 is a good idea is talking complete crap.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:16 pm


"Anyone who says buying 767's to replace the A300 is a good idea is talking complete crap."

For the first time Roberta and I agree!!!!!!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

"From the news report TG's president said that TG has liquidity of 30 billion Baht (750 million USD) at the moment."

As I said, how is Thai going to finance a replacement. $750 million isn't going to buy you very much or serve as security for leases for 20 odd planes.
 
ROP
Topic Author
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:46 pm

Warren747sp

If i'm not wrong the 2 crashed Thai Airbuses were both A310-200s. Heard that the one crashed in Nepal was caused by the pilot error (language confused something) . while another one crashed in southern Thailand that many said caused by the stromy weather but i think it was by the pilot error again since it crashed on the third or fourth final approach in the bad condition.

ROP
 
kaitak
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:12 pm

Actually, I think at least one of the A310s was a -300. Thai Airways (the domestic airline) ordered two before being merged with TG and then TG got two (I think?) from Wardair when it merged with CAI. No A310s are operated now.

I really think that Boeing would have to put up an incredibly good deal to get TG to take interest in its product; the 777 is around the same size as the 330 when operated in a proper configuration and the 330 is really better suited to short to medium haul hops. I'm sure TG would probably like to get rid of its 772s. The 7E7 may well be worth a look, however.
 
NeptunesCar
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:22 pm

WINGTIP thanks for the ac names and reg numbers!!! Ive flown almost all of them. HS TAO was the Star Alliance logo aircraft.
You call it the world, we call it home. Pan Am.
 
BD1959
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:28 pm

According to airdisasters.com the 'bus that crashed in Nepal was a -300 with the A310 at Surnat Thani being a -200 series.

BD1959
 
greaser
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:41 pm

Kaitak, is TG unhappy with their 777s?
Now you're really flying
 
Airbus Lover
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:06 pm

AFAIK they are not. They are putting an interior upgrade to those B772As they have to serve Japan/Korea routes I heard.
 
planemaker
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:41 pm

Thai to take delivery of eight A340s next year
Brendan Sobie, Singapore, ATI News (02Apr04)

Thai International Airways has reworked the delivery schedule for the five A340-600s and three A340-500s it acquired last year and will now take all eight aircraft in 2005.

The Star Alliance carrier plans to take delivery of the first A340 in March 2005 and the eighth A340 in December 2005, a Thai spokeswoman says from Bangkok.

Under the original delivery schedule, deliveries were to begin in October 2004 and not be completed until 2006.

The spokeswoman says Thai’s three A340-500s are to be delivered in March, April and October of next year. Thai’s five A340-600s are to be delivered in June, July, September, October and December of next year.

Thai is planning to use the A340-500s to launch nonstop services from Bangkok to North America while the A340-600s are slated for service to Europe.

The carrier currently operates one-stop services to North America with 747-400s because no aircraft in its current fleet has the range to fly from Thailand to North America nonstop.

Thai had been planning to take delivery of its first A340-500 this October and the new delivery schedule means it will have to postpone the launch of nonstop services to North America until at least next March.

The spokeswoman declined to give a reason for revising the delivery schedule.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Sun Apr 04, 2004 8:32 pm

Pardon me for saying what a few of us are no doubt thinking but, sounds like a few generals may be due for retirement and are looking to fund it through a Boeing or Airbus nest-egg!
come visit the south pacific
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: Thai To Dump A300 Fleet

Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:22 pm


Anyone who says buying 767's to replace the A300 is a good idea is talking complete crap.


At this point in time, I agree with you 100%. But it has been done before. Recall KLM replaced their A310s with the 767s.  Big grin