tokolosh
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:02 pm

KLM Takeover By Air France

Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:13 pm

From the AT5 site, 02/04/04 (Amsterdam local television site). Rough translation:

"Air France to bid for KLM on Monday

On Monday Air France will make a takeover bid for KLM. This was announced by both companies on Friday (2nd April). Earlier this week it became clear details of the takeover would be announced later than planned. Initially Air France intended making the bid at the end of March, but this was postponed twice.
The bid for KLM shares open on April 5th and will run till May 3rd. KLM shares will be replaced with Air-France-KLM shares. The takeover is worth about 785 million euro."


I wish this was an April Fool's joke. Although this has been coming for quite some time, it is still somehow hard to believe it's actually happening. And, is it just me, but does 785 million euro sound like very little money for taking over KLM?!
Did the chicken or the egg get laid first?
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:28 am

I guess that they only need the majority of the shares in KLM?
Personally I hope it means that KLM will run an A380 on the Amsterdam-Paramaribo route, since AF has bought a handful of these.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
AirplanePeanut
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:00 am

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:32 am

Thats so sad..Ive Never Flown KLM but they dont need their new T7 to get dirty. Insane


Bobby
..
 
SNBA319
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:12 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:32 am

Personally I hope it means that KLM will run an A380 on the Amsterdam-Paramaribo route, since AF has bought a handful of these

what a funny thing to hear from a swede  Laugh out loud . I think many dutch citizens would agree with you though, same for the route to the dutch antilles!
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:42 am

In the not-too distant future KLM won't fly anything at all. The common fate of all airlines Air France takes over is a rapid decline into bankruptcy due to all income being pulled to Paris but all expidentures having to be paid local.
I wish I were flying
 
regupilot
Posts: 452
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:45 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:47 am

Although I am not from around, I think that will be the worst thing ever to happen to Holland and the aviation industry in Europe. I may be writing nonsense, but KLM is some what, a heritage already.... and.... well... I just don't know what to say, but only that..... It's sad.

I just wanted to comment, and let you know my condolenses in advance (in case it happens)
Cheers!

Ragu
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Sun Apr 04, 2004 3:10 am

That's correct Jwenting, AMS will be a regional airport within a few months  Nuts

The only B777's and B747's that will visit AMS in the future will be those of AF to transport connecting pax between AMS and CDG  Nuts  Insane
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Sun Apr 04, 2004 3:19 am

I was in Suriname in feb&mars and the KLM B744 was crammed both ways,
no other carrier operate Europe to Suriname, so it´s a cash-cow for KLM.
Jwenting, surely the Par´bo-Amsterdam route is attractive, I don´t know
about Curacao or other typical Dutch oversea routes?
On some lines it definitly means less competition, also good for the A380
and B744?



From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Sun Apr 04, 2004 3:27 am

Re: The only B777's and B747's that will visit AMS in the future will be those of AF to transport connecting pax between AMS and CDG

That won't be necessary - there's a perfectly good high speed train.

Re: The common fate of all airlines Air France takes over is a rapid decline into bankruptcy

Name one...

Jwenting, your distress at this takeover borders on the hysterical, it would seem. I am no fan of AF, believe me, but in Europe we are going to have to get over this nationalistic obsession with all having a national carrier of our own. It can't be sustained, and The Netherlands, being in itself quite a small market compared to some other countries in the EU, was sadly a pretty obvious candidate for having its large and successful national carrier merge with a larger outfit. It is further likely that only those airlines in markets that are so small that they generate no interest, will even be around in 10 years time. IB and AY and maybe EI may go to BA, OS will probably go to LH, only SN, TP and LG will be left to sink into niche carrier status.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
phollingsworth
Posts: 635
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Sun Apr 04, 2004 3:51 am

I don't know why your are all acting so surprised, this is only the next step in what was announced last year and approved by US and EU authorities back at the beginning of this year. You may not like it, but you can't say this is truly news. Since the EU government doesn't like the national governments to pull out all of the stops to keep their airlines afloat this consolidation is bound to happen.

As for the KLM brand, it won't disappear as fast a some people would like you to think, only because the perceptions of consumers will resist it. Though it may be gone within a decade. You can argue which brand is truly stronger, but I don't think anyone here can make a definitive case (personal preferences not withstanding).

As for the future of AMS. They cannot move the passenger loads of AMS to CDG directly, the landside and airside capacity don't exist, yet. What you are more likely to see is a realignment of passengers and flights to maximize the utility of both airports. Considering the population densities in that part of Europe, a good business case can be made for maintaining two hubs. DL maintains both ATL (super-hub) and CVG (land of the RJ) and they are only about 100 mi farther apart than CDG-AMS. Further the pop densities are lower here in the States.
 
tokolosh
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:02 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:45 pm

Today on the AT5 local Amsterdam television site (www.at5.nl). Rough translation:

"French get 50% of KLM for free"

Air France will get about half of KLM partner for nothing. This was announced by the Stock Exchange Association (VEB). The VEB estimates that the Air France bid is just over half of KLM's capital value. The Air France offer is, according to the VEB, 17,80 euro per share while the KLM's value is 34,14 euro per share. "Air France thus gets half of KLM for free".

Did the chicken or the egg get laid first?
 
tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:54 pm

The full stoy can be found here (only in Dutch):
http://www.veb.net/beleggen/artikel.php?newsnr=405&SID=df74ef4b4d6197687718d25d32b1c9b9
 
kl911
Posts: 3979
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:21 am

Is there really nothing that can avoid one of Europe's best Carriers being taken over by the dirtiest, unefficient, worst service airline?????
And for only 50% of the normal price? Sounds like French politicians have been threathening again......
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:15 am

dear dutch neighbors

on one side your country is the best in Europe for everything (so you believe) and on the other side the dirty cunning Frenchies are taking over your wonderwapen for free without your prim-and-proper politicians objecting.....this is becoming ridiculous

what are you going to say? France paid billions to your guys???
you know what? France doesn't have these billions nowadays they just have efficient groups taking over less efficient groups anywhere in the world.
for your info, and whether you like it or not, Konmar, KLM, Orange,Wanadoo and many others are French.
Again, it's not because you're disappointed that you have to sound like "de telegraaf" articles
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AF330
Posts: 37
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:28 am

From my username you might be able to tell that I am an AF fan.

I understand how you feel about KLM but please don't take this anger into wrong statements about the French carrier. AF Planes are not the cleanest, I agree, but the standards of on board service is very high. Let me rephrase this, in a market where airlines are lowering there services to LCC standards, AF is still managing to keep a good onboard service.

Let us not think nationally but look at the fact that we are in the EU, AF + KLM is a very strong brand for all of us.

cheers

Alex
faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
Simongkhon
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:43 am

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:41 am

Have to agree with Alex. Though I'm not a regular on AF, the flights I've made have been nothing but enjoyable, both domestic Europe and longhaul. As for the cleanliness of the a/c, most north-European planes look like sh*t during the winter season and most of you good ppl here know why. This becomes more than obvious on a/c:s painted all white.

H
 
col
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:42 am

Maybe KLM/AMS can explain to AF/CDG how an airport should be designed and run. CDG is a real mess, take a clean piece of paper and open land, design something that is a sweet looking building, then put planes and passengers in it. NON, it was not designed to be an airport, just looks pretty.
Pretty useless and pretty apt to stay that way.
 
Simongkhon
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:43 am

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:49 am

Col, your not referring to CDG as being sweet I hope. The place is nothing but an architectonic disaster (unless you're madly in love with concrete, that is).

H
 
Simongkhon
Posts: 49
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:56 am

Ooops. Kinda lost the thread here I think. Sorry for that. What I really wanted to say, was that I really hope this merger doesn't turns Schiphol into what ARN has become. A local commuter a/p, feeding pax on 320:s to the European hubs. It would be a real pity as AMS is one of few airports I actually enjoy visiting.

H
 
col
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:57 am

In French eyes after having lunch and many bottles of St Emillion. I hate the place, have to go every four years for exhibition. How can you screw something up so badly, if Aeroports De Paris made Submarines, the sky would be full of them!!
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:06 am

Col
I am sorry but if you want to be precise in what you say please specify what terminal you're talking about (answer ALL = not relevant)

CDG 1 is out of a twisted 60s mind and should be a museum like TWA terminal at JFK
CDG 2 E + F which are used by AF are out of the same twisted mind but are more than acceptable and much nicer than Schiphol
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Simongkhon
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:43 am

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:12 am

Why wouldn't ALL be a relevant answer? If the guy dislikes ALL of the a/p. As I do myself btw.
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:21 am

answer ALL if you're pleased to do so
but in that case explain why 2F/E are not good airports...I worked 5 years in a bad airport (CDG1) and I don't see why 2E/F should be horrible terminals especially compared with schiphol since it's the theme
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col
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:25 am

Varig md-11

Terminals I am talking about are both CDG1 and CDG2, just a pleasure using both. E and F are a little better, but not always the ones used. Best French airport I have used is Limoges.

I will stick to using MAN/AMS as my European preference, MAN was superb last week after using LHR last time. Got to go through FRA next week, will see how German efficiency compares.
 
Simongkhon
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:43 am

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:43 am

Varig md-11

OK. Personal opinions is something not to be discussed. Has been proven before and will be again. Anyway, I just don't like the place. I think it's just a set of big ugly looking buildings, tasteless interiors. And to add, I have never been particularly impressed with the staff working the place (I'm sure they are all very good people privately). The experiences I have with CDG is all in all not good.

Over and out

H
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:18 am

thanks for your explanation and comments

now back to the original question: why AMS should teach CDG to be a good airport?

-bags not lost during transfer: OK
-everybody speaks english: OK
-taste in the interiors: let's be serious...what's so striking at AMS?
-staff amability: gimme-a-break, ice cold AMS behavior = big turn off

but then again as mentionned before it's just my 2 cents
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aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:22 am

It seems that nobody really wants to say what is really bothering.
As I see it the simple fact is that we don't like the French as probably they don't like us.
Any take over would have been fine German, English, Scandinavian or even American.
It's nothing personal though just a reflection of what most Dutch think if I may be so bold......... If not I guess I will hear from you hehe  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Cheers.

The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:36 am

"now back to the original question: why AMS should teach CDG to be a good airport?"

ehhm, the original discussion is about the KLM takeover by AF  Smile

In my opinion AF is really paying too little. I have always had this opinion, it is nice to see that there is a credible source stating the same. However, it is probably too late. I don't expect the major KLM shareholders refusing the AF bid. Although I hope they do.

 
747srule
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:42 am

KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:54 am

I am sad to hear this. KLM has such a sharp livery. I will miss it.
Jesus is the way,the truth,and the life
 
747spa330md11
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:14 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:06 am

What will happen to my collected flightmiles I have on both, KLM Flying dutchman and Korean Air (Sky Team !!) when the airlines will merged. Will they go all on one account ?
And will KLM also become a member of Sky Team, so that I can use my collected Korean Air miles for a Bonus flight with KLM ?
Save the 747 SP !!
 
tokolosh
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:02 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:52 pm

I think, as mentioned somewhere above, we should not look at this issue from a nationalistic perspective. After all, most major airlines have alliances, code sharing, etc, operate globally. However, there are a number of things about the Air France/KLM merger that are really puzzling: The share price being paid is only half the actual value; for this Air France is getting one of the strongest brand names in the industry (also the longest continuously operating airline in the world, something that can't really be expressed in money), and with one of the world's best airports as its hub; KLM is #4 in Europe, rarely makes a loss (is in profit and load factors are strong and rising); KLM has a huge network together with its alliance partners -- I can't see why this cannot ensure its continued success. The top managers of both KLM and AF vaguely state that KLM is not sustainable in the long term and has to merge. Very little information is given about this. If anything, Alitalia needs help!

Just a few thoughts on the matter.

Happy contrails.
Did the chicken or the egg get laid first?
 
tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:38 pm

It is really strange KLM is sold so cheap to AF. One of the reasons might be that KLM top management sold KLM so cheap might be purely of interest of KLM top management. Why would they do this? Well AF played it smart and lured KLM management with huge salary increases and huge bonuses. So the KLM management has to opportunity to fill their own pockets. It looks like managers nowadays have now morality anymore and only act out of self-interest. This might be the reason. I think it is a shame that KLM managers purely looked at their own interest. The labour unions (especially CNV) in the Netherlands has expressed their disagreement on this. They can't understand why KLM management deserves outrageous increases in salary and huge bonuses, while the KLM work-force only get a 2,5 percent increase in salary. I agree with the unions and hope they can stop KLM mangament with filling their own pockets.



[Edited 2004-04-15 11:41:00]
 
AMS
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:41 pm

Shame on YOU KLM management.
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:48 pm

I wasn't trying to be nationalistic at all as I am not bothered by those kind of feelings.
The reason AF bought KLM for a bargain is simple, they are the last option for KLM to merge with a major airliner as all other options failed.
Something AF knows very well.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
aviationfreak
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:01 am

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:17 pm

What a disgrace to give away such a proud carrier like that.

As I see it the simple fact is that we don't like the French as probably they don't like us.
Any take over would have been fine German, English, Scandinavian or even American.


If we don't want to see KLM in French hands, we don't want to see them in German hands either. I don't want to offend anyone. But don't the Dutch dislike both Germans and French generally.
Although I myself am not bothered with this nationalistic sentiments I wouldn't like to see KLM taken over by one of both.

English. I don't know if that will work out. Look at what happened to Hoogovens.
But yes, personally I rather had the take over by BA than AF.

Other question. Why did the negotiations with BA faile? Wasn't the BA offer much better than the offer of AF?




[Edited 2004-04-15 13:18:06]
I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
 
tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:30 pm

isn't it a bit short-sighted that some are putting up arguments they don't like French people. Probably they don't even know any French person and are only forming opinions on stereotypes. Please stop those arguments. They don't contribute to discussions.

Anglo-Dutch firms in general are very successful. Have a look at Unilever and Royal Dutch Shell. They belong to the largest and most successful firms in the world. I guess it is because the Dutch and British cultures are quite similar that Anglo-Dutch firms do work.

I do think there will be cultural problems between AF and KLM that are going to cause problems. The business attitude in Holland is very different compared to the French. So are the company cultures of KLM and AF. I hope KLM and AF can work out their cultural differences.
 
sebolino
Posts: 3495
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:08 am

The common fate of all airlines Air France takes over is a rapid decline into bankruptcy due to all income being pulled to Paris but all expidentures having to be paid local.

How ridiculous.

 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:52 am

thank you for all the dutch stereotyped comments, that helps a lot.

Aviopic: I think you sum up the situation pretty well....and by the way, the French don't hate you: in fact they think your country (the size of greater Paris) is part of Vlaanderen, and since they don't hate the belgians, they don't hate the dutch  Acting devilish
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aviopic
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Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:37 am

Don't what you are up to Varig but I never used the word "hate" !!!!
I don't hate nobody and I never will as it is a waste of time and leads to nowhere, infect my best friend is French.
You sad correctly that I summed up the situation, that's all nothing more, nothing less.

As we say a very very good wine.......... Is still no beer !
Something you will never understand  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

cheers
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
kl911
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:45 am

'''I do think there will be cultural problems between AF and KLM that are going to cause problems. The business attitude in Holland is very different compared to the French'''


Correction : France has NO Business attitude at all......
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4767
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:52 am

Correction : France has NO Business attitude at all......

Shit man, you're more and more starting to sound like Jwenting. And that's not a compliment. I know this is all emotional for you guys and such, but please don't let that get in the way of actually thinking.
 
kl911
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:58 am

Scorpio,

I'm actually living and working in France............just my experience.....
 
Mriya
Posts: 128
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:04 am

 Crying  Crying  Crying  Crying

KLM is my favorite airline. I'm flying with them on the trip I'm currently on. The Dutch clearly had a great deal of pride in their main airline as the liveries have always been eye-catching, the planes kept shining clean (for the most part) and their service exemplary. I've flown them since I was very young and they've always treated me exceptionally well; as a child, the F/As greeted me with a plethora of neat things to keep me entertained (I still have some of the stuff) and would bring me up to the upper deck and even the cockpit midflight. On my last flight, I wanted a peek at the cockpit and I asked the F/A if he could arrange it. The crew didn't allow it, but the F/A said he'd bring my camera up and take a photo for me, and he took a beautiful, very clear, very sharp photo. I certainly hope KLM remains as separate from AF as possible given the merger.

Here I am talking like they're already gone.. :P
Currently not active in aviation photography or this site. Thank you for your interest.
 
LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:30 am

I guess it is because the Dutch and British cultures are quite similar that Anglo-Dutch firms do work.

Tripple7, unfortunately you guessed wrong. I work on a daily basis with colleagues in the UK and I have to say that "the British culture" is very different than "the Dutch culture". Moreover I hear this not only from my Dutch colleagues but also from friends who also have colleagues in the UK. Assuming automatically that the Dutch have more in common with the British than with the French isn't correct. I agree the Dutch don't have a large language barrier with the British (which they do with the French) but that's probably all.

Personally, I think that Air France is the least worst option for KLM as the best option would be to go alone and see where it ends. However, I fully understand that some view this strategy as too risky and thus sell out.

BTW please note that I relate to my experience working for a global bank and from what I hear. Needless to say my experiences may be different than those of somebody else.
 
aviationfreak
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:01 am

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:41 am

Don't be to hard on the so called Dutch stereo type comments.

Our proud and Dutch aviation heart was already teared apart by the bankruptcy of Fokker. At least mine was. Now KLM and AMS are the only thing we can be proud of aviation wise. So please understand that the KLM/AF merger is a sensitive subject for some of us.
IMHO KLM should have merged with a more equal partner anyway. The risk to be 'eaten' by the bigger one is significantly less then.

However I do agree that we should wait and see.
It would be very stupid to let the KLM brand disappear business wise. And I don't think AF is that stupid.  Big grin
I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
 
LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:51 am

IMHO KLM should have merged with a more equal partner anyway. The risk to be 'eaten' by the bigger one is significantly less then.

That's the problem, there is no equal partner which suits KLM. They tried with AZ but it didn't work out.
 
wietse
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:03 am

Varig,

What the hell is it with you and the Netherlands? If you are so full of hatred towards our way of life, at least have the decency to change your country to something else, I don't want to be associated with you or what you think. There are profound reasons for dutch to "dislike" the Germans and French in general, do not wipe those off the table.

You are descending rapidly into another Jwenting, popping up just in time to bash the Netherlands and the Dutch way of living.

Wietse

Wietse de Graaf
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:19 am

Well spoken Wietse and Aviationfreak, it's always nice to get some support.
 Big thumbs up
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:21 am

I will not change my flag because I live here and I perfectly know the way YOU function
also please note that I react to constant aggressions and rude typical remarks and clichés on France and the French
I am so sick and tired to hear such nonsense everyday in real life about the French, the Germans (anything else than dutch for that matter) that it's getting boring to READ that crap again on an aviation forum
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wietse
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RE: KLM Takeover By Air France

Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:24 am

And note that I react to constant aggressions and rude typical remarks and cliches on Holland and the Dutch. It is getting boring reading your crap on this forum.
Wietse de Graaf

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