leviticus
Posts: 1016
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Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:34 pm

Some of these topics have been discussed for some time now, but there have been many speculations, here are some points that can be more or less viewed as "facts" ! Just received an article from my friend, it is from one of the last weeks issues of the German newspaper "Handelsblatt" (unfortunately I do not know which day since the article is cut out), and contains an interview the vice president of Lufthansa. Here are some statements.

The USAirways entry date to the alliance is finally set to the 4th of May.

It is clear that SAA is now joining the alliance after many years of partnership.

Qatar Airways has been reportedly approved by the Lufthansa, and is to enter Star Alliance soon. (Well this is something new for me at least !)

And that Star Alliance is seeking to expand in China, India, and is at the moment negotiating with Air China, Air India, Indian Jet Airways, Sahara and Indian Airline. While Thai and ANA is looking for more Chinese destinations.

It certainly looks like the biggest alliance will grow even more...

[Edited 2004-04-03 15:35:19]
 
TonyBurr
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:46 pm

Great info, thank you. Qatar is certainly a new one! Glad US is entering soon. Any word when Star may go to a common Frequent Flyer Program?
 
chepos
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:24 am

Nice to hear US is going into STAR on May 4th, which means I'll be flying on a STAR carrier soon.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
leviticus
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:28 am

TonyBurr,

Yet I have not heard anything about the common frequent flyer program of star, but maybe that would not even be necessary. My personal opinion is that the Star Alliance carriers are very cooperative and their frequent flyer programs are very much alike with, unlike One World and Skyteam. And maybe, while more and more carriers are joining, a common FF program would only cause chaos.
 
A330DAT
Posts: 461
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:51 am

GROW?

Yes, but you forget to mention what's leaving the alliance... MEXICANA has left Star Alliance on March 31st in favor of a cooperation with American Airlines and Iberia (a hint for oneworld?) !!!

 Smokin cool
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:54 am

Yeah, it is good to make expansion with the star alliances with US Airways. I will able fly with UA for quite while. I can't remember that was flew with UA either.
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sun Apr 04, 2004 3:05 am

A330DAT,

Yes you are right, it is a shame that Mexicana is leaving the alliance for One World but I am sure that Star will try to pick up a new carrier as soon as possible in the Central American region.

BTW, do anybody know how much Mexicana paid to exit the alliance ? As far as I know, the current "fine" is around 3 million Euro or even more.

[Edited 2004-04-03 19:06:08]
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:24 pm

well, that LH has finally approached QR is only surprising since they seem to have been hesitant with (in the past, LH had withdrawn its code from some QR flights). basically, i'd say it's been pretty much on the horizon that QR would be approached one day...

and as concerns MX, i recently read that LH has already approached TACA as possible candidate in Central America. but TAM already's got an alliance with AA, don't they? leaves pretty much room for speculation...

the question remains whether MX leaving/being kicked out of the alliance is really a major setback for the customer of the Star Alliance, which i think it is not, because most crucial Star members maintain their codeshare partnership with MX, with the exception of UA, of course, which has lost a close ally in one of its key markets.

it's also very interesting that LH has allied with AI but still considers Jet Airways to be a more suitable partner to cater for the Indian domestic market. but in order to receive more traffic rights to India, LH had to tie up with AI which has a limited domestic exposure.

so many (prospective) members already, i really wonder how they are making/going to make this work...

rgds
daniel

If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:40 pm

Leviticus, MX did not leave Star Alliance for oneworld. MX is going to remain independent and will continue codesharing with LH, AC and RG notwithstanding its new partnerships with AA and IB. In addition, MX is not an airline from the Central American region as you suggest in your last posting since Mexico is not a Central American country; Mexico is a North American country. And the operations of MX in Central America are insignificant compared to its operations between Mexico and the U.S.; as a matter of fact, MX has the largest market share of flights between the two countries with 1 of every 4 flights between Mexico and the U.S. being served by MX.

In connection with the penalty fee for leaving Star, I believe MX did not pay any penalty fee at all since it did not leave the alliance, but was rather kicked out of it. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong. I think that what happened is that MX decided not to renew its codeshare agreement with UA and that automatically brought the number of codeshare flights of MX with other Star members under the minimum contractual threshold; the consequence was to expell MX. In other words, in order to avoid payment of the penalties, MX got itself kicked out. Smart move in my opinion.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
MAH4546
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:43 pm

In connection with the penalty fee for leaving Star, I believe MX did not pay any penalty fee at all since it did not leave the alliance, but was rather kicked out of it. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong. I think that what happened is that MX decided not to renew its codeshare agreement with UA and that automatically brought the number of codeshare flights of MX with other Star members under the minimum contractual threshold; the consequence was to expell MX. In other words, in order to avoid payment of the penalties, MX got itself kicked out. Smart move in my opinion.

IIRC, that is exactly what happened. Very smart move on MX' part.

While the current plan is to remain alliance-less, I do believe Mexicana will find itself in oneWorld in due time.
a.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:59 pm

Star Alliance also requires miles and lounge access reciprocation between each and every one of their members...when Mexicana pulled their reciprocation with United, that was also part of Mexicana getting shown the Star Alliance door...
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
connector4you
Posts: 768
Joined: Wed May 16, 2001 10:27 am

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Tue Apr 06, 2004 4:37 pm

STAR might soon lose Air Canada, and that could potentially hurt badly the whole Alliance . . . United is not out of the woods yet!

Smart move for Mexicana though !

 
Al
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 10:28 pm

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:05 pm

I believe BD is soon to announce MAN-PEK, MAN-BOM and MAN-DEL.
Cheers.
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:06 am

Al, Do they really have enough equipment for that ?
 
LFutia
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:06 am

Sadly,I dont think that Jet Airways will go w/ the SA. Why I think that, they already have codeshare agreements w/ NW/KL. I would think that Copa would but they are tied w/ Continental. Indian Airlines is tightly connected with Air India so what ever alliance Air India goes into, watch Indian Airlines go into. Sahara... Their fleet isnt big enough although slowly, very slowly they are gradually adding new things.
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
TonyBurr
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:22 am

Connector4yo, why do you say that Air Canada may soon be out of STAR? Because of their finances or other reasons with STAR?
 
gigneil
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:44 am

Al, Do they really have enough equipment for that ?

Actually, they just do.

N
 
NeptunesCar
Posts: 97
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:56 pm

with these sort of expansion plans....
i think the listings for Star Alliance members will soon include only the airlines NOT part of the alliance....

You call it the world, we call it home. Pan Am.
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:57 am

I must say that I am very pleased to hear that BMI finally have gotten more long-haul equipment, I am looking forward to fly their widebodys. And hopefully they will introduce more transcontinental flights, not only to China/India.
 
Al
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Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 10:28 pm

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:24 am

Al, Do they really have enough equipment for that ?

I can't for the life of me remember how many wide body Airbii they had, as some of them are/were leased out, so it's quite possible they either do have it, or with the current glut of aircraft available fast and more importantly cheap, can get it.

 
MAH4546
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:01 am

I must say that I am very pleased to hear that BMI finally have gotten more long-haul equipment, I am looking forward to fly their widebodys. And hopefully they will introduce more transcontinental flights, not only to China/India.


They have not added any long-haul equipment. They have three A330s, just like they've always had.
a.
 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:21 am

Well my bad then, I did not realize that they are able to serve all the long-haul destinations with only those. Maybe the services will become even less frequent then what they use to be.
 
UAFAN17
Posts: 114
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:31 am

Who exactley is the Key STAR member? Why would MX be smart for not renewing its UA codeshare contract, a lot of UA flights in the US were MX codeshare. But, Mexicana is smart for partnering up with IB. I wouldn't say AA because AA has a smaller schedule than UA, meaning less codeshare oppurtunity.
 
leviticus
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:40 am

Usually the key Star Alliance member used to be Lufthansa, after all they were the ones starting the whole thing and now they are acting like some kind of boss in the alliance. But then again, MX seemed to break to rules against UA on purpose to be kicked out (do not ask me why) so now they are out of the alliance... But they still have codesharing programs (and even exchange of FF miles is aloud) with several Star Alliance members for instance Lufthansa ! Now that is one strange thing that bugs me, maybe the issue was "personal" between MX and UA ?
 
EddieDude
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:17 pm

UA neglected the U.S.-Mexico market and that disappointed MX. Of all the legacy carriers in the U.S., UA became the weakest one in terms of flights between the U.S. and Mexico. Since the flights to the U.S. from Mexico are MX's cash cow and MX has the most market share (1 of every 4 pax on a U.S.-Mexico flight chooses MX), MX realized its alliance with UA was helping UA more than it was helping it, and therefore decided it was in its best interest to get out of it. There is a separate thread going on now that deals with the scope of the new MX-AA codeshare and you can see it is way broader than the UA codeshare because MX will codeshare on all AA U.S.-Mexico flights, on many intra-U.S. flights, in many trans-Atlantic flights, and even in flights to Canada and South America, while AA will codeshare on all domestic MX flights. Besides, AA is the largest U.S. carrier between Mexico and the U.S. in terms of passengers, so codesharing with AA will be great for MX.

As for LH, RG and AC, they have decided to continue their partnership with MX because their codeshares have been successful. As a matter of fact, LH has renewed its agreement with MX a few weeks ago. I do not see MX joining oneworld in the short term. Its decision to maintain codeshare agreements with the airlines who can feed it a lot of pax irrespective of the alliance they belong to is a very smart strategy.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
travellin'man
Posts: 469
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:55 pm

the last time i flew United (last month), they still listed Mexicana as an ff mile accruable airline for Mileage Plus. Is this in fact the case, or is it just wishful thinking on my part (as I am probably flying MX next month and want the miles for United)? I scanned the info quickly, so I am not sure of what I read now.

Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
leviticus
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Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:22 pm

Travellin'man, all I can say is "it depends".
From April the first Mexicana is no longer a member of the Star Alliance and you usually (on most carriers) do not receive FF miles for MX flights anymore, I think it is that way with United to. But there are some exceptions, for instance if you got your ticked before April 1st through SAS with MX as a connecting flight you still get your EuroBonus points even after April 1st. But not if you both your ticket in April.
 
copenhagenboy
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 11:03 pm

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:44 am

You still earn EuroBonus on Mexicana
From SAS homepage:

Note!
Effective from April 1st, 2004 Mexicana Airlines will change from being a Star Alliance partner to be a non Star Alliance partner, i.e. EuroBonus members will earn Extra Points instead of Basic Points.
Earning points with Mexicana Airlines
You earn Extra points on all flights operated by Mexicana Airlines and flights operated by Aeroaribe on behalf of Mexicana Airlines on qualifying rates.
You earn a minimum of 1,200 points in Business Class and 600 points in Tourist Class, on qualifying rates per one-way trip.
Quote your membership number when you book your flight and when you check in. It may take up to four weeks for the points to be credited to your account.
Points are not earned on flights operated by another airline on behalf of Mexicana Airlines.

Exchanging points with Mexicana Airlines
You can exchange points on all flightes operated by Mexicana Airlines and flights operated by Aeroaribe on behalf of Mexicana Airlines.
To find out how many points you need, click on Points chart below. No child discount are available.
Book through Member Service at least seven days in advance.
Points cannot be exchanged for flights operated by another airline on behalf of Mexicana Airlines.


 
leviticus
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:26 am

Copenhagenboy, thank you for the clarification. The things I posted must be reagrding the Basic points then.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:50 am

I wouldn't say AA because AA has a smaller schedule than UA, meaning less codeshare oppurtunity.

Smaller schedule? Less codeshare oppurtunity? Think again.
a.
 
RicardoMexico
Posts: 107
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RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:32 pm

I just read in a Brazilian aviation magazine that South African Airlines could be joining Star Alliance. SAA announced code share with Varig (a star alliance member) for daily flights between Brazil and South Africa.
A member of SkyTeam!
 
BMIFlyer
Posts: 8065
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:11 am

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:42 pm

Considering that U.S Airways are supposed to be an official member of the alliance from 1st May, why have they not yet announced it?? I mean, we are almost halfway thru April already.

No info on the LH, UA, RG, SQ or BD websites either  Insane

Just something i noticed  Innocent

Thanks

Lee

Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
aad665
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 1999 11:03 am

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:22 am

Hi,

i just flew through MUC yestersay. I was watching the boarding screen at the gate and, for example, a flight MUC-TXL, the sreeen showed :LH 1234 code-share: United XXXX "Star Alliance"; Varg XXXX " Star Alliance"; US Airways XXXX Star Alliance.

As I was travelling last weeks, I tought that missed US entry in Star aliance.

When US will join?


Regards,

aad665

 
EddieDude
Posts: 6166
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:08 am

South African Airways will join Star very soon. You can find more info in the www.staralliance.com website.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
aaway
Posts: 1236
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:19 am

"But, Mexicana is smart for partnering up with IB. I wouldn't say AA because AA has a smaller schedule than UA, meaning less codeshare oppurtunity...."
With the exception of the West Coast, AA does have the larger prescence in MX's strongest US markets, namely along the U. S. 'Sunbelt". AA also a larger U. S. - Mexico schedule vis-a-vis UA.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
Al
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 10:28 pm

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sun Apr 11, 2004 9:34 am

Considering that U.S Airways are supposed to be an official member of the alliance from 1st May, why have they not yet announced it?? I mean, we are almost halfway thru April already.

US become an official member on 04 May, not 1st. The announcement is on either 15 or 16 April, which is the same date when US can be sold and ticketed as part of the Star RTW products, as per the new set of rules released for Star RTW's last week.

 
BMIFlyer
Posts: 8065
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:11 am

RE: Star Alliance News, Expansions And USAirways

Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:45 pm

Sorry, i got the date wrong!!

Good to see i now have another carrier to take me across the pond from MAN Big grin

Thanks

Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own

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