DeltaRampPIT
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DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:47 pm

Hello again!!

I work @ PIT and I was wondering if there are any plans for the retirement of the DL MD-88's. I really dont like these and they are dirty and old in my opinion. They are also loud in stark contrast to the "new" aircraft floating around PIT. Any info or opinions on this?

Thanks!!

Brian
 
Guest

RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:56 pm

May I ask why you believe these aircraft are old? DL's youngest MD-88 is only 10-years-old! The crux of the fleet was delivered during the 1989-1991 timeframe, making them relatively young for a $30+ million aircraft. Airlines that operate fleets of hundreds of jets don't renew them every 10 years or so to satisfy a small, insignificant group of enthusiasts who wouldn’t fly DL anyway unless they were the cheapest… especially if the airline is nearly bankrupt and lose millions of dollars! I'd bet that DL's near-75 strong fleet of B732/B733 will be retired well before the MD-88...

[Edited 2004-04-05 06:57:44]
 
rockyracoon
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:56 pm

Well considering they'll be forking out cash for hush kits in the near future, they'll be here to stay for a while. Plus they've got no cash to waste on a replacement for 100+ aircraft. Look how long delta kept their 727-200s even when they could have phased them out a lot earlier. My bet is that the 737-200s will leave the fleet long before the md-88s.


peace
 
Guest

RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:08 pm

Look how long delta kept their 727-200s even when they could have phased them out a lot earlier

Could’ve yes, but why would they have?  Big grin DL had nearly 150 streamlined B727 throughout most of the 1990s (many built in the late 1970s/early 1980s) and as recently as 1996 had planned on operating them into next decade (alongside the L1011, which was to be retired by 2008). They even fitted two B727 with winglets in the mid-1990s!

But I'll agree the B732/B733 will be retired long before the MD-88...
 
MHTOH
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:35 pm

For those of us that work them, they can't phase them out soon enough! Unfortunately, as stated above, they will be around for a while. It is a horrible aircraft to work with, but it does the job, and there are a ton of them flying (120?)

Maybe Delta can get a good deal on some A319s and A320s in a few months...  Wink/being sarcastic
mmm...jet fuel...
 
jhooper
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:44 pm

What are you guys talking about? The M88 is the workhorse of the Delta fleet, and they really aren't that old. I wouldn't be surprised to see them around for another decade.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
DeltaRampPIT
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:13 pm

I agree they are a horrible aircraft to work on/around. Stacking in those bins is a interesting task, and I am 6'4"! I am not complaining, just a fact. Love to work in 737's!!

Thanks for the info.......I also note that when one of these take off the noise is by far the loudest and most noticeable exhaust of any @ PIT. That was the reason for my question. Just curious!

BRian
 
OttoPylit
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:06 pm

Hopefully soon. Actually, I cannot whine too bad, as it is a great aircraft for short segments, such as ATL-DCA or ATL-BHM. Delta must have gotten a sweet deal on these from MD, to have so many(around 120), but none fitted with IFE, especially when that is the current trend through the industry.(Are AA's outfitted with IFE?) The 16 MD-90's they have are completely fitted with IFE though. And when the Mad Dogs are scheduled for long haul flights(ATL-TUS), they always seem to be weight restricted, but fortunately, the Revenue Management Department has looked into that and do not allow them to be fully sold out.

As far as stacking the bins, being a former ramp rat, although not for Delta, you can give me a Mad Dog anyday over a 737 and those horrible nets. Although as a passenger, I will always take a 737 over an MD-88.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:09 pm

They even fitted two B727 with winglets in the mid-1990s!

According to an article in 'Airliners' magazine 2 or 3 issues back (the issue that dealt with the retirement of the 727s particularly NWs and DLs), the winglets were only used for 'experimental fuel savings' purposes. The winglets were taken off shortly thereafter. The article does not state whether the wingleted 727s were used for actual flights.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
SDFOH
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:13 pm

I believe the pre 9/11 plan was to have them all phased out by 2008 with the MD-11/L1011 for an all Boeing fleet. They were going to replace them with the 737-800, but DL just recently sold off the options on the 737-800s that Boeing was building for them. It seems like DL has scrapped all plans to retire the MD-88 for the foreseeable future until it can get back on it's feet.
 
hirisk
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:16 pm

i wouldn't be suprised if DL kept the mad-dogs for another 10-15 years.as for the 727 and L1011,yes delta had plans to keep them around till 2008 or so.after 9/11 that changed.as a fueler,i like working on MD88'S.low to the ground so i don't need a ladder to reach the fuel panel(732 small ladder,738 you almost need a lift truck!).only drawback is that it takes fuel real slow but thats just nitpicking.having flown on a few,i'd say they are also far quieter then 732's but little noiser then a 738.they are good flyiers but a pain in the arse to deice in the winter months.
happy contrails
 
MSYtristar
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:06 pm

The M88's are new, versatile aircraft. They can effectively fly short (ATL-BMH) and long segments (DFW-LAX, ATL-PHX, etc). The fuel efficiency is good on these aircraft, they are pretty reliable from what i'm told, and they are just as (if not more) comfortable than some of the newer planes flying today. The bins on ALL DC-9 family aircraft are obviously not the best things to work in compared to 737/320 family, it's not just limited to the MD-88....if you are a person of tall stature, it's very easy to knock your head on the low ceiling...lord knows i had my share of bumps and bruises while looading NW DC-9's. Anyway, the -88 is a good 727 replacement for Delta. Expect them to be around for a long time.


Steve/MSY
 
7e72004
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:09 pm

If NW could keep their DC-9s for as long as they have then DL can keep the MD-80s for a very long time. I think that the MD-80 is an important part of DL's fleet and with the financial condition that the airlines are in now is not the time to start getting rid of aircraft, especially if there is nothing wrong with them.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
777gk
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:25 pm

I highly doubt they wanted to keep the L-1011s in the fleet until 2008, unless that was just a handful of the -500 series. Don't forget that they were retired BEFORE 9/11 (7/31/2001) and even at that time had outlived their useful (profitable) service life as pax carriers so retiring them earlier rather than later was a prudent financial decision even in the pre-9/11 climate. By 2008, most of the L-1011s would be damn near 30, and with the high-cycle flying that they were doing toward the end of their careers (ATL-MCO, FLL, etc...) there would be such a tremendous, prohibitive cost involved with maintaining these ships that it would not make any sense to keep them in service beyond the time they operated.

Plus, 767-400s had started arriving in late 2000 to replace the L-1011s, not augment them.

I think the idea was to keep the MD-11s around until 2008, when they would transition to a 767/777 long haul fleet.
 
dutchjet
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:39 pm

The DL MD-88s are the backbone of its short-haul domestic fleet and will be around for many, many years to come. Seriously, does anyone here think that DL has the financial resources to replace 120 aircraft that are between 10 and 15 years old? DOes anyone read the newspapers? At the moment, DL is losing money and has many financial problems (like most carriers) plus is trying to renegotiate contracts with its unions and work out some type of deal concerning pension obligations. I would not look for any orders from DL (to replace the MD88s or the 732/733 aircraft) in the near-term future.
 
sushka
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:40 am

I really liked th Delta MD88s I have been on a few and I think they are really comfortable and a lot more intersting than the usual 757 or 737-800.
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:45 am

PIT?? What new aircraft at PIT, are you talking about the boatload of ERJ's and CRJ's operated by USAirways Express?

You complain about working in the MD-80 bins, try the CRJ bins, now thats clastraphobic.

MD-80's are extremely quiet in the front half of the aircraft.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:48 am

Well considering they'll be forking out cash for hush kits in the near future, they'll be here to stay for a while.

Last I knew there was no reliable timeframe for Stage IV noise compliance regulations (as Stage III isn't all that old).
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
VC745D
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:06 am

To echo PSU.DTW.SCE above: As a 6'2" pax, I'll take the MDs (preferably with AA's MRTC, but even DL's) any day over Barbie Dream Jets. Connect from an RJ to an MD80 and you'll think you've gotten on a A380 (well, almost).
 
MHTOH
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:26 am

"You complain about working in the MD-80 bins, try the CRJ bins, now thats clastraphobic."

At least you can stand up in the RJ bin! A good stacker can put about 80 or so bags in the RJ bin (if its not Spring Break), and I would rather work RJs than MD88s anyday. The Maddog bins are short and long, some of Delta's have the sliding carpet to make it easier, but they break a lot, and are only in the two longest bins. The worst part of the MD bin is the lip. It is not flat and flush with the beltloader, it is grooved out, and all of the bags catch on it. Things are ripped off all the time because it gets caught when unloading.

mmm...jet fuel...
 
FlyingColors
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:32 am

Sorry but I don't work on any of these, wish I did!

Ha, noise and smoke...........just beautiful!!!!!

Mike  Smile
Moon chaser!
 
ScottB
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:32 am

To quote Delta's transitional annual report from early 2001, for July-December 2000 (they converted to fiscal years coincident with calendar years at that point; this is, of course, prior to 9/11):

"Delta's long-term plan is to reduce aircraft family types from seven to three. We believe fleet standardization will improve reliability and produce long-term cost savings. We plan to retire (1) our remaining L-1011 aircraft by August 2001; (2) our B-727 fleet by the end of 2005; and (3) our MD-90 fleet and owned MD-11 aircraft over the next six to eight years. In 1999, we entered into an agreement to sell our B-727 fleet, with deliveries occurring through 2005."

We can see that the retirement of the 727-200 was accelerated by a bit under three years, since that fleet was retired in early 2003, and the MD-11 retirement was accelerated by three to five years (six to eight years from early 2001 would have been 2007-2009, and they were retired earlier this year). The 737-800's are the replacement for Delta's 727-200 fleet; the number of 737-800's originally ordered by Delta was comparable to (if not a bit larger than) the 727-200 count. The MD-90's and MD-88's are all still in the fleet, as are virtually all of the 737-200's (I think 2 leased aircraft were returned, and a number of the Delta Express aircraft were parked for a bit).

Until Delta returns to profitability and can start picking up new narrowbody aircraft, the MD-88's aren't going anywhere. And it's likely that the smaller fleet of MD-90's would go first, even though they're newer and quieter, simply because they don't fit well in the fleet plan.
 
707guy
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:33 am

MHTOH - right on brother - rather work an RJ/732 than a Mad Dog anyday. You're absolutely right about the lip on the doors... And the lack of height really is a pain. I work the ramp for Delta in CLE so I know of what you speak... One of the best has to be the Airbus A319/20 - can almost stand up in all the bins.
 
skymileman
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:11 am

As long as Delta keeps operating an all Boeing/MD fleet, I'll be glad to fly on them, no matter how old their planes are. If they were to start getting airbuses, I wouldn't bother flying them.
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:19 am

I don't know anything about working on them, but I do know that from my viewpoint, I try and book myself on a DL MD-88 anyday of the week. I love having the two-side of the aircraft (can't get that on a Boeing narrowbody), and the two-side also has about an extra inch of legroom. I'm flying on the Mad Dog in 12 days MHT-ATL...can't wait for the flight!

Jeff
 
skymileman
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:21 am

I'm with you there DeltAirlines. Long live the MD-80. The MD-90's an awesome plane as well. I fly on either one any time I can.
 
Guest

RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:05 pm

777gk,
DL’s own literature from 1996 indicates the airline planned on operating their L1011 until 2008, and the B727 for several years beyond that. Obviously they changed their minds within a few years (I wasn’t the poster who mentioned 9-11 as a factor)… if I had a scanner, I’d scan & upload the page.

- - -

While DL’s long-term fleet plan was to consolidate to the B737, B757/B767 and B777, I’ve never seen anything published from DL that indicated they had planned on retiring the MD-88 by the end of this decade. Indeed, airlines replace equipment when they become uneconomical to maintain/operate -- not because something marginally better is on the market… if DL were to take delivery of 300-400 B737NG over the next several years to replace its B732/B733/MD88/MD90, by the time they took the last plane, a new mid-size 7E7-technology a/c would be on the market to succeed the B737NG and everybody on a.net would be begging: ‘When’s DL going to replace their 400 B737NG? They average 5-years-old! They’re old! There’s a new plane on the market!’

- - -

OttoPylit,
I would expect somebody who is a DL employee to know why DL purchased the MD-88:

From a DL in-flight magazine cira 1991:
“The MD-88 is one of the most fuel-efficient, medium-to-short range planes in the skies. This series has the most advanced cockpit design and boasts a totally electronic flight deck. Used for “short-hops,” the MD-88 links smaller airports with larger hub cities. A captain and first officer fly the MD-88, with four flight attendants serving over 140 passengers.”

Hence why the planes were not equipped with IFE… obviously the dynamics of the industry have changed, and DL uses the MD-88 in a different role today…
 
freshlove1
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:22 pm

it looks as if they have removed 9 leased 737-300's from the fleet also to reduce costs and are going to sell 11 737-800's, as soon as they get them from boeing, to another party according to the stock report i'm reading for 2003
 
PHLBOS
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:18 am

DL's own literature from 1996 indicates the airline planned on operating their L1011 until 2008, and the B727 for several years beyond that.

Chances are that literature was written PRIOR to DL's acquiring the 764 and 777. Could someone tell me when DL made the decision to go with the 764 and 777? If it was after 1996, the above statement would be proven valid.

Somewhere between 1996 and the summer of 2001, DL must've decided that the L-1011 was no longer needed and that the 777, 764, and possibly the remaining MD-11s would fill the void.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, isn't there some requirement/rule (possibly by the FAA) that states that there needs to be a third person in the cockpit on trijets (L-1011, 727, DC-10, MD-11)?

DLs early phase-out of the L-1011 may have been done as a means to reduce cost. Keep in mind, many legacy carriers were trying to cut costs even BEFORE 9/11.

No doubt, last year's retirement of the 727 and the more recent retirement of the MD-11 was done as a means to reduce costs following the economic downturn of the last 2 1/2 years.

Sorry to go off-topic. Although I've never flown on any DLs MD-88s or 90's, if they've got some life left in them, I'd say, "Keep them flying."

Regards,

Chris  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

[Edited 2004-04-06 17:22:33]
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KaiGywer
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:51 am

Also, if I'm not mistaken, isn't there some requirement/rule (possibly by the FAA) that states that there needs to be a third person in the cockpit on trijets (L-1011, 727, DC-10, MD-11)?

If the plane is built to be operated by two pilots and an FE, then yes, it needs 3 people up front (like the L1011, 727 and DC10), but if it's designed as a two person cockpit (like the MD11), then it only needs two.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
Jonathan L
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:14 am

I like the MD-88, even when I'm sitting in the back of it!
 
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United_fan
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:59 am

I read that DL retired the 727's beacuse of the new reinforced cockpit doors were supposed to be installed fleet-wide by April 30,2003. And it would cost DL $50k a plane to do it.
I miss the DL MD88 here in ROC,all DL mainline pulled out last May.
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727LOVER
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:19 am

Thanks for the info.......I also note that when one of these take off the noise is by far the loudest and most noticeable exhaust of any @ PIT. That was the reason for my question. Just curious!


You know, for some of us,...THE LOUDER THE BETTER  Big thumbs up
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COEWR
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:09 am

Does anyone know how much DL owes on these MD-88's? If they are mostly paid off, why take a large plane order along with all the debt that goes with it. Look at it the same way with the NW DC-9's. They are not replacing them because they are paid off. Both DL and NW have top of the line maintenance so they can keep their planes flying reliably and profitably longer than the competition. A lot of things a TON of people on this forum do not seem to understand is that planes cost a lot of money. Has anyone here actually ever spent $30 Million? If you have then you know what it can buy you...As for me I have never spent that much but lets put it in terms of cars. I'm a big Corvette fan..Say that 1 Corvette costs $50,000. That means that 2 are $100,000 and 20 are $1 Million...Now multiply that by 30 and you have your $30 Million...Do you know how many Corvettes you have? If you said 600 you're right!

sorry to deviate from the topic at hand but some people on these boards need a reality check of what the cost of a plane actually is. An airline (especially one in financial trouble) is not willing to spend a ton of cash on replacing planes that still have at least another 5-10 years left in them...It was mentioned before that the newest MD-88 is around 10 years old...Most commercial aircraft fly well into their 20's (I know some airlines still have planes operating that are older than I am)

Another thing before I go...If any of you have ever played an airline simulation (AKA Airline Executive Online, or Airline) you must know that the MD-88 is a work horse. In one of my simulations I only bought used MD-88's and ran them into the ground. By year 5 I was well over 200 planes and making a profit of almost $1 Billion a year. Any plane that can bring in that kind of revenue is welcomed in the airline world.

Now back to my original question. One that I am quite curious about...

Does anyone know how much is owed on DL's MD-88 and MD-90 fleet? Thanks in advance for the answers. Again sorry to deviate from the topic at hand I just felt like some people on this board needed a reality check.


-C
 
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RayChuang
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:56 pm

If DL does hang on to its MD-88 fleet for the forseeable future, you really have to wonder what will DL do to improve the efficiency of the plane?

My guess is simple: a re-engining program, something that AA may also be considering for its own very large MD-80 Series fleet. Why a re-engine program? I can cite the following reasons:

1. Lower fuel burn costs on a seat-mile basis.
2. Allow the plane to meet stricter exhaust emission rules in the future.
3. Allow the plane to meet the stricter noise emission rules that will likely come into effect in a few years.
4. Because the MD-88's are relatively new, there is plentiful airframe life left for a re-engine program to be economically practical.

I see two candidate engines for this program: a more powerful derivative of the Rolls-Royce Deutschland BR715 or a Pratt & Whitney PW6000 derivative. I'd put my money on the BR715 derivative first.  Smile
 
iflyatldl
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:02 pm

Let's just say, it will replace the NW DC9 thread in a few years.  Big grin
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:16 pm

I like the MD-88 and have always enjoyed my flights on them with Delta. I actually prefer the MD-88 over a 757 in terms of comfortness. When the MD-88's are retired all of Delta's aircraft will be twin engined/wing mounted jets. When I'm spotting at an airport I love when and MD-80 Series jet takes off, the loudness is amazing!


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Thrust
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:28 pm

The DL MD-88s could last another 10 years with Delta...as someone pointed out earlier, they are relative new compared to many other MD-80s except for many of TWA's, one of which is the absolute newest and last MD-80 ever built (MD-83, N984TW "Spirit of Long Beach", now with AA).
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Aloha717200
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RE: DL MD-88's.....how Long Till There Outta Here?

Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:30 pm

I remember in the summer of 1999 or 2000 being told that the last MD-80 was being delivered by Boeing to American Airlines. I remember it because, shortly after, i made a trip to SLC to pay tribute to the MD-80, I visited the AA gates at SLC and watched the MD-80s arrive and depart that day and took many photos that day, sadly all of them now lost.


I also remember, very fondly in fact, my first (and last) 727 flight on Delta in 2000, and even then as i spoke to the pilots before the flight i commented on how delta was retiring the 727 soon, saying how it was such a shame, i knew from the moment i boarded that plane it was going to be a great flight. I was really stunned at just how clean and modern the 727 cockpit looked, and i dont remember a third person being present in the cockpit, and this was minutes prior to pushback. I only remember two people being in there.

DL's 727s could have lasted them another 10 years were it not for 9/11. And that's too bad. BUT, I know for a fact that Delta was phasing them out in 2000. I bet if you check the archives of this forum back to 1999 you'll find a whole host of interesting discussion threads about the DL 727 retirement. 9/11 didnt cause them to decide to retire them, it just ended up accelerating their retirement.


I'm curious, what was this 1999 deal? That they were to sell their 727s? Sell as opposed to shipping them to VCV and Opa Locka to be broken up? Who were they being sold to? Very interesting.

I also remember in that same time period the last L-1011s operating into and out of SLC, a magnificent sight. I can't believe just how much emptier the SLC skies are without the 727 and L-1011. The former was graceful and loud and ever-present, the latter was enourmous and there was always one looming over the city on climbout. God I miss those days.


I say keep the MD-88 a while longer from an enthusiast standpoint. But, I am curious as to why Delta is holding off on more 738s...is that just a financial matter because of their current situation or have they yet again changed their minds about the official 727 replacement. As you know the Md-90 was slated to be the official 727 replacement before engine problems arose and subsequently, the MDc buyout. I find the -90 a much more interesting aircraft.


I had no idea Delta had that many MD-88s. You don't see them here in SLC. In fact it's odd to even hear that the -88 is considered the Delta workhorse. You see -90s here and 738s galore. You would think that the 738, not the MD-88, was the workhorse of the delta fleet if you spend any amount of time in SLC.

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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos