aerobalance
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Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:44 am

at 1700 EDT Apr. 6, 2004.... this according to Yahoo.
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
NDSchu777
Posts: 389
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:47 am

Sounds exciting! I sure hope Boeing names GE as one of the engine suppliers, especially since my best full-time job lead is with GEAE right now.

~Nick
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:51 am

Good stuff, can't wait to hear it...

...I'm betting fiddy on GE and RR  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:53 am

And then I bet fifty that PW announces an all new set of engines for the A330 and A340NG.  Nuts

N
 
AA777
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:54 am

Ill take GE and Rolls Royce, Hopefully Rolls!! for the 7E7

-AA777
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 am

I'll go out on a limb and guess all 3: GE, RR, P&W. Completely swappable, too. As long as the engine manufacturers eat the development cost, what have they got to lose?  Smile
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
LMP737
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:04 am

And the winners are............


GE and RR.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:04 am

Doh. Bummer for P&W  Sad
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Horus
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:07 am

Isn't Boeing really depending on the performance on these engines to reach their aim, that the jet will be 20% cheaper to operate than the A332?

Why hasn't P&W been included?
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
gigneil
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:08 am

And the winners are............


GE and RR.


From where did you get this information? I can't verify it with any source of information.

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:09 am

Why hasn't P&W been included?

Because in case you havent noticed, PW's produced some REALLLLY shitty commercial engines as of late.

The most glaring recent examples being the PW4098 and the still-in-production PW6000.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
futterman
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:10 am

I think you answered your own question, Horus...

Apparently PW wasn't included because they couldn't promise an engine suitable for the 7E7. Unless I'm missing something...
What the FUTT?
 
gigneil
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:11 am

Now, and just now, its on the Boeing site.

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:12 am

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/q2/nr_040406g.html

Everett, Wash., April 6, 2004 -- Boeing [NYSE:BA] has selected two engine types, the General Electric GENX and Rolls-Royce Trent 1000, for its all-new Boeing 7E7 Dreamliner, an airplane that will provide the world's airlines with exceptional efficiency and environmental performance.

Boeing's decision follows months of collaboration with the leading manufacturers of large commercial airplane engines.

"The General Electric and Rolls-Royce engines will enable the 7E7 to fly higher, faster, farther, cleaner, quieter and more efficiently than comparable airplanes," said 7E7 Senior Vice President Mike Bair. "Having an engine choice is a key consideration for our customers. We're now offering two excellent options for the 7E7."

Both engine types will be capable of providing between 55,000 and 70,000 lbs. of thrust, which will allow the three planned 7E7 models to use the same basic engines.

The 7E7 will reduce fuel use -- and associated emissions -- by 20 percent over today's comparably sized airplanes. The engines are key contributors to the airplane's dramatic efficiency improvements. The engines will also help the 7E7 be significantly quieter than today's airplanes and meet new industry requirements.

"All three engine manufacturers presented exceptional proposals," Bair said. "We reached this major milestone well ahead of our original schedule due to the close collaboration on requirements, capabilities and technologies. While it was a challenging decision, the speed with which we made it is representative of the customer interest and the overall momentum on the 7E7 program."

For the first time in commercial jet history, both engine types will use the same standard interface with the airplane, allowing any 7E7 twinjet to be fitted with either engine at any point in time. Engine interchangeability makes the 7E7 a flexible asset that can easily be moved among carriers, an attractive feature for financiers, leasing companies and airlines. Other 7E7 innovations include the elimination of traditional bleed air systems in favor of an efficient, more-electric architecture.

General Electric's new engine, called the GENX (GE Next Generation), is derived from the ultra-high-thrust GE90 engine, which has a proven track record on twin-engine aircraft. The GENX technologies include composite fan blades, the highest pressure-ratio compressor in aviation, and a unique single-annular combustor (where compressed air and fuel are mixed) to achieve dramatically lower emissions. The GENX will have its first full-engine test in 2006. The engine is being designed and tested at GE Transportation's world headquarters in Evendale, Ohio. Final assembly will occur in Durham, N.C.

"Our engine for the 7E7 represents the culmination of new technologies for which GE has made considerable investments over many years," said David Calhoun, president and CEO of GE Transportation. "Needless to say, this is one of the biggest days in the history of our jet engine business."

Rolls-Royce will produce a new variant of its successful, high-thrust Trent engine series to power the 7E7, the Trent 1000. Designed to deliver optimum performance with minimum development risk, it will be the fifth member of the Trent family to enter service, once again featuring the three-shaft design layout unique to Rolls-Royce. The engine will be the most efficient and environmentally advanced Trent ever built.

Mike Terrett, president of Civil Aerospace for Rolls-Royce, said, "This is a special day in the long and rewarding relationship between our companies. Now, once again, our focus is on bringing a new generation of Trent successfully to market."

Boeing is continuing to receive strong customer support for the 7E7 and has submitted a number of firm contract proposals to airlines. The company expects to launch the new airplane this year.

Additional Information:

7E7
The 7E7 is a family of three airplanes, all of which will use the same engine type. The baseline version will carry 217 passengers in three-classes of seating with a range of up to 8,500 nautical miles (15,700 kilometers). The shorter-range 7E7 will carry 289 passengers in two-class seating on ranges up to 3,500 nautical miles (6,500 kilometers). The stretch version of the 7E7 will carry 257 passengers in three classes with a range of 8,300 nautical miles (15,400 kilometers).

It is being designed to provide customers with a better flying experience including and improved cabin environment with more room and more conveniences.

General Electric
GE Transportation, a business unit of General Electric Company, is the world's leading manufacturer of jet engines for civil and military aircraft, including engines produced by CFM International, a 50/50 joint company of Snecma Moteurs and GE. GE also manufactures gas turbines, derived from its highly successful jet engine programs, for marine and industrial applications. In addition, GE Aircraft Engines provides comprehensive maintenance support, through its GE Engine Services operation, for GE and non-GE jet engines in service throughout the world.

Rolls-Royce
Rolls-Royce plc operates in four global markets - civil aerospace, defense aerospace, marine and energy. It is investing in technology and capability that can be exploited in each of these sectors to create a competitive range of products. The company has made rapid and substantial gains in market share over recent years and has a total of 54,000 gas turbines in service. Its customer base includes 500 airlines and 4,000 corporate and utility aircraft and helicopter operators, 160 armed forces and more than 2,000 marine customers, including 50 navies. Energy customers span 120 countries. Income from aftermarket services has increased by 60 percent in the past five years and currently accounts for half the group's revenues.

Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
aerobalance
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:14 am

The GE choice is called the GENX, to make it's first test runs in 2006.

The RR engine will be called the Trent 1000, does anybody have an idea on when this engine will be on the test stand?
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:17 am

I'm glad to see GE in the running, but this must suck for P&W. The company has had a long and successful history in partnering with Boeing on providing engines for their aircraft.

-G
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:20 am

And then I bet fifty that PW announces an all new set of engines for the A330 and A340NG.

So Piggy, still up on that bet?  Laugh out loud
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:23 am

Lets wait and see for at least a day, shall we?

N
 
Guest

RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:57 am

Let the G vs. R wars begin!!!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:05 am

From the 7th paragraph-

Other 7E7 innovations include the elimination of traditional bleed air systems in favor of an efficient, more-electric architecture.

I suspect that the 7E7 will bleedless but not bleedfree, but like you said, it is way to early to tell.

I'm a little disapointed that PW was not selected, they must get their act together if they are to remain in the civil aviation market. This is the first Boeing airliner that Pratt has not powered.

What does this mean for Pratt long-term?

Regards,
DFW
 
manzoori
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:07 am

Hurrah for us!  Big thumbs up

Let the G vs. R wars begin!!!

er... why?

Rez
 Big thumbs up
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kalakaua
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:08 am

Swappable engines, too! Gotta love that idea.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
brons2
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:54 am

East Hartford, Conn. -- Pratt & Whitney President Louis R. Chenevert
today sent the following letter to all employees regarding Boeing's
engine selection for the 7E7 aircraft.

"Today, we were informed by the Boeing Company that Pratt & Whitney's
PW-EXX engine was not selected to power the 7E7 Dreamliner. While we
are disappointed, we should thank the entire PW-EXX team for their
outstanding efforts in this hard-fought competition. The PW-EXX was
the only all-new engine for the 7E7 and the team supported it with an
extremely competitive and creative business proposal. We should be
proud of everyone who worked on the PW-EXX team and applaud their
passion and commitment.

Pratt & Whitney engines power a number of Boeing aircraft, and we
will continue to strengthen our relationship with the Boeing Company
on these programs. We will also use the advanced technologies we
developed for the PW- EXX engine to pursue other opportunities in the
commercial engine market.

Please keep in mind that Pratt & Whitney has other strengths in the
commercial engine business. The V2500, from International Aero
Engines, won more than $2.5 billion in new business in 2003 and IAE
just received an order to power up to 95 new aircraft for Spirit
Airlines. Pratt & Whitney has two new engines in development, the
PW6000 for single aisle aircraft and, with GE as a partner, the
GP7000 for wide body aircraft. These three programs will be
generating revenues for decades.

Pratt & Whitney also has a commanding presence in military engines
with the F117 engine for the C-17 Globemaster III transport, the F119
engine for the F/A-22 Raptor and the F135 engine for the F-35 Joint
Strike Fighter. We also won a landmark order to power Boeing's new
767 tanker with our PW4062 engines.

Pratt & Whitney Canada is currently developing engines for several
new aircraft. Their PW600 family, which powers the Cessna Citation
Mustang and the Eclipse 500, has the potential to revolutionize air
travel. Space Propulsion, Power Systems and Specialty Materials &
Services give us opportunities outside our traditional aircraft
engine business.

There are tremendous growth opportunities in aftermarket services
across the company. Pratt & Whitney's aftermarket revenues have
increased by nearly 50 percent over the last decade. Commercial
Engines has already won significant fleet management programs from
United Airlines, Shanghai Airlines and Pakistan International
Airlines so far this year. And we have an opportunity to double our
aftermarket revenues across the company over the next five years.

Pratt & Whitney is a great company, with gifted people who are truly
passionate about the business. We will continue to pursue our growth
strategy and our quest for perfect quality. I am confident we will
prosper in the long run."

Louis R. Chenevert
President
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:09 am

Very very interesting. I fully expected P&W to be a definite engine supplier here. Maybe they will be selected for te 747 Advanced.
 
s.p.a.s.
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:11 am

What does this mean for Pratt long-term?

That they will continue with the PW-Exx development, offering it to Airbus?

Ok, this is a wild speculation ideed...

Cheers

RS
"ad astra per aspera"
 
ua777222
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:22 am

It's a bummer that P&W powerplants were not included. But another ? Is, only 70,000lbs of thrust? I thought that not only was it supposed to be efficient but was supposed to be as good at the 777 and correct me if I'm wrong the 777's power plants all had a min. Of 90,000lbs (low 90's). I'm not too up to date w/ the 7e7 so I might be wrong.

UA777222
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wingnutmn
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:28 am

I guess this means NW won't be purchasing the 7E7! No Pratt, No Plane!!! I guess that means that NW will really be relying on Airbus for their future Widebody fleet.

WingnutMN
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phollingsworth
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:33 am

It's a bummer that P&W powerplants were not included. But another ? Is, only 70,000lbs of thrust? I thought that not only was it supposed to be efficient but was supposed to be as good at the 777 and correct me if I'm wrong the 777's power plants all had a min. Of 90,000lbs (low 90's). I'm not too up to date w/ the 7e7 so I might be wrong.

I guess I'll provide a correction. The original 777-200 powerplants were available with as little as ~76,000lbs of thrust on a 545,000lb airplane. The 7E7 will be in the 400,000 to 500,000lb range, so the T/W is in the same range, about 0.28.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:05 pm

I guess that means that NW will really be relying on Airbus for their future Widebody fleet.


Well, we all knew and expected that anyway. Northwest will gradually convert to a mostly-airbus fleet down the road. They may hang onto their 757s for a long time and, well, who knows about the DC-9s but i expect them to be replaced by A319s and A318s, not 717s, over time.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:42 pm

I'm not surprised that General Electric and Rolls-Royce were chosen for the 7E7 engines.

The reason is simple: both GE and R-R could quickly develop and provide the engines to Boeing because both engines are based on currently-available technology (GENX based on GE90, Trent 1000 based on other Trent derivatives). Pratt & Whitney's proposal was a literal paper engine that would have taken much longer to develop, something that Boeing does not want (after all, Boeing does remember the fiasco with the JT9D on the early 747's!).

 
cloudy
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:45 pm

I'm sure all of the above mentioned points are valid, but there is another factor.
A lot of airplane orders in some very important countries are determined politically. It does pay, politically, to not have to offer both an American airframe and an American engine. This may be a handicap to 777-200LR and 777-300ER, both of which of necessity have only GE engines ( the market to small for 2 engine makers to make a profit). Of course, the 7E7 has a lot of non-US content, in fact, there is enough to get Boeing in serious political trouble here. But in some places (India comes to mind), this will not matter. Knee-jerk anti-Americanism will demand that if a Boeing order is made, the engines will have to come from somewhere else.

This is a relatively small factor, and Boeing's conservatism in choosing derivative engines over Pratt's new design is probably far more important in choosing to exclude Pratt. But being able to offer a non-US engine will make marketing the 7E7 easier in certain countries.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:59 pm

Pratt and Rolls are UK based correct?
 
ha763
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:03 pm

P&W is a US company.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:40 pm

Rolls Royce is British.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
VSGirl
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:46 pm

I back RR or GE...

Kimberly.
 
Alessandro
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:02 pm

Was Lotarev in the race? Do Airbus and Boeing even bother to ask them or other russian manufacturers?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
VSGirl
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:33 pm

I am not sure they do, maybe they listen but I don’t think the end user (airlines) would like it?

I mean most western airlines use (or try to) the same make of engine fleet wide, for example, British Airways historically use RR (and when forced GE)... BMI RR or IAE.

If Boeing or Airbus approached an airline with a Russian engine and it was going to be the only choice, then the airlines costs would go through the roof and they would more the likely go to another manufacture that supplies more widely used engines (RR, GE, PW, IAE, CFM)

I guess you would say that those companies have market control.

It’s all about breaking into the market!

Kimberly.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:46 pm

Unfortunately, they probably don't. I think that the Russians will have to fight their way up through biz jets and regionals before being considered for anything this major. See you in 10 years at least.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
usatoeze
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:54 pm

Was Lotarev in the race? Do Airbus and Boeing even bother to ask them or other russian manufacturers?


No.

They don't have the ability to spend the needed capital that a risk-sharing partnership requires.
War is a very poor political tool
 
oakmad
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 8:41 pm

RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:01 am

This is probably a really stupid question, but in the Boeing release they make a point about a standard engine interface. Apart from money and having them certified is there anything stopping PW continuing development of their engine to this interface? Obviously the 7E7 would need a software update to know it has different engines with different performance.

Anyone think other airframes will use the same/similar interface? Imagine airlines being able to swap engine types depending on the route/load the air frame is about to fly to bring about the best performance/economics. (Obviously a little far fetched, but a cool concept I think)
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:52 am

I fully expected P&W to be a definite engine supplier here.

Considering Pratt's recent incredible screwups (so far as new engines/derivatives go), my question to you is... um, why?



I guess this means NW won't be purchasing the 7E7! No Pratt, No Plane!!!

Sorta like their A32x fleet, right?  Laugh out loud


It does pay, politically, to not have to offer both an American airframe and an American engine. This may be a handicap to 777-200LR and 777-300ER

As opposed to the A345 & A346, which are essentially [seen as] Euro airframes and a Euro engine only....?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Guest

RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:50 am

Website at RR updated...112" Fan!

http://www.rolls-royce.com/civil_aerospace/products/airlines/trent1000/intro.jsp

[Edited 2004-04-07 22:57:12]
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:57 am

Considering Pratt's recent incredible screwups (so far as new engines/derivatives go), my question to you is... um, why?

Pratt has to know the crunch they are in. The PW4000 has not won 30% of 777 orders, they are only partners in the V2500, 757 production is winding down which means application for the PW2000 is minimal, they are only a 50% partner in the Engine Alliance, and yesterday they lost out on the 7E7. All this from the company that dominated the early jet age with the JT8 and JT9.

The potential market for the 7E7 could be as high as 2,000 frames. It doesn't take an arm chair CEO to realize that this was a golden opportunity for Pratt to reverse its fate. With the way Pratt hyped their engine bid, and their obvious need to secure the 7E7, I was expecting Pratt to put the most investment in their bid, and thus win the contract. But I guess we know now that it didn't happen. I don't want to be a cynic, but is this a nail in PW's coffin?

At least Pratt didn't throw a fit when they got the news...

Regards,
DFW
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:16 am

I don't want to be a cynic, but is this a nail in PW's coffin?

Pratt's military biz is exceptional... just that their commercial prowess has recently been relegated to a virtual joke relative to their competitors (particularly in terms of widebodies).

Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
NDSchu777
Posts: 389
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:44 am

Good news for GE and Rolls...a huge plow to Pratt.

It will be exciting to see some of the new technologies developed like the reduced bleed air systems and new power generation systems. Also the interchangeable engine design sounds really interesting. It looks like over the next few years we'll see some exciting developments with the addition of two new engine types and one new airplane to the world of commercial aviation!

~Nick
 
aerobalance
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:47 pm

112 inch fan on the RR?! That's bigger than I imagined for the 7E7!!!
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
dc-10 levo
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:45 pm

This is great news! I live right next to a Rolls Royce factory in the East Midlands. Some parts for the A380 engines left the factory about a month ago on their way to France. I'm hoping they'll give me a sneak preview of the 7E7 engines Big grin.

DC-10
 
ducker
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:05 am

An ex P&W employee, the problem with PW is that in the past (JT3, JT8,JT9)they would do everything they could to buy market share. It is obvious that they do not have a current engine with the efficiency required for the 7E7, they needed a new engine (PW8000?). They and UTC are looking for the best return on their, and they offered their best business case. It was rejected. So be it. Should PW bet the whole company on this business? They will survive, maybe as a major subcontractor.
Ralph
 
Areopagus
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:47 am

I wonder if P&W's loss was due in part to Boeing not trusting the geared fan.
 
manzoori
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RE: Boeing To Announce 7E7 Engines

Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:55 pm

I live right next to a Rolls Royce factory in the East Midlands

You do? Which one?

Rez
 Big thumbs up
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