LambertMan
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Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:56 pm

Well I called it.....

Frontier Airlines to move to Lambert's D Concourse
Frontier Airlines is continuing to establish itself in St. Louis by moving its service to the D Concourse at Lambert-St. Louis International Airport effective Wednesday.

The Denver-based airline, which currently operates out of Concourse A, expects the move to give its passengers easier access to their gates. The airline has recently announced increases to its service from St. Louis to Denver, Los Angeles and Cancun, Mexico.

"Frontier's growing presence in St. Louis is representative of the renewed interest in this market," said Leonard Griggs, director of Lambert, in a statement. "Frontier's move to Concourse D will help to relieve the lengthy line of passengers which have frequently emerged at our Concourse A security check point," he said.

The D Concourse had been occupied by American Airlines before it downsized its service to St. Louis and moved to the C Concourse.

Looks like they are going to give F9 room to grow at Lambert by allocating them as many gates in D as they'd like. Looks good for future growth by F9 and hopefully we'll see MCO and LGA come online at some point in time as hinted by Mariner.
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:00 pm

" Looks good for future growth by F9 and hopefully we'll see MCO and LGA come online at some point in time as hinted by Mariner."

I think they would make a killing on both of those routes, not to mention the possibility for connections further west to DEN, LAX, or CUN.
 
airbazar
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:08 pm

On the other hand, does anyone think that the only reason they're expanding in St. Louis is because they can't get more space in DEN? If there were to be a turn around in DEN and F9 got the gates they want, would it make sense to maintain another hub in St.Louis, so close to DEN?
 
ultrapig
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:15 pm

This is like shuffling the Chairs on the Titanic-Colonel "Mustache" Griggs a political appointee has let the terminal go down hill while he was running it-they can't even keep the moving sidewalks going-or the ceiling from leading!

As for the lines a Concourse A-yes they were huge-but why couldn't the airport through Colonel do something before this-and don't give me its not his department nonsense-my complaint to TSA means nothing his should have-

While screeners were sitting with their hands in their pockets on Con. D there were long lines at A

And as you all note STL wasn't mentioned by Airtran WN or Jet Blue-given the vacuum at Lambert this says something about either the airport, its management or the number of O&DE there-

 
LambertMan
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:18 pm

Talking about a hub is getting a bit ahead of ourselves, I would be happy to see it be a five city station by this time next year. The future for Frontier here does look good, and hopefully they will creep around the big scAAred wolf (they act is if they are scared of LCC's in STL as they back down). However, we could be overlooking the primary reason for F9 making this move, lack of office space. There basically is none at F9's current position in STL, I may even expect HP to follow them to D. HP occupies STL's b*stard gate.
 
atcboy73
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:24 am

I called the Customer Relations number at Frontier and spoke with a nice lady who asked around a wasn't able to come up with any info as to which gates or how many they would be taking.

She said it might still be in the works and that maybe the media just got a hold of it before it was final.

Anyone here have any concrete info on which gates will be used?
 
pilotpip
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:33 am

The gates at the very far West end of D are the only ones that are still there. I think there were still three there. I can't recall though. Regardless, they are adding two more flights to DEN, and starting LAX and CUN service soon. I flew on them once, standby, and was very impressed with how nice everybody was. I don't think that the space in DEN is an issue, the airline is expanding service in a few other markets as well.
DMI
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:40 am

Are you saying two more flights to DEN for a total of 4 dailys or just two as they have now? I hadn't heard about those flights, but I'm not surprised considering that American only uses RJs on the route now. F9s product is much better.
As far as where on D the gates are, I can't understand why they wouldn't take gates that are close to the security checkpoint by the food court. Thats a long long walk down D unless maybe they are thinking about using the east checkpoint.
 
alphascan
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:18 am

Airbazar:

The gate issue at DEN was settled at the end of last year. F9 got a few of UA's A Concourse gates temporarily while the city expands F9's end of the concourse. Some of those gates will be available this summer via extended jetways.

F9 management is on record saying the agreement reached will allow it to grow as planned. I am assuming that means their growth will NOT be inhibited by the gate issue at DEN.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
ual747den
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:28 am

DEN is giving F9 all the gate space they want. They are even building a new Regional Jet Center for them. Space is not an issue anymore. F9 is expanding is a few markets and this is just another one of them. It is way to close to DEN for them to use it as a hub. F9 just sees potential here and is taking advantage of it. If F9 is to open another hub it will be on the east somewhere.
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:41 am

Quickmover:

"...we'll see MCO and LGA come on line at some point in time, as hinted by mariner."

Just to set the record straight, I don't recall mentioning STL/MCO - I may have, though, and I think it may be a good idea. I just don't know enough about STL.

The reason I posted STL/LGA was because Sean Menke, head of marketing at F9, said they were looking at it.

It would be a head butt with AA, of course, and I'm not sure what they'd do about slots at LGA - but why would he mention it if it wasn't under consideration?

cheers

mariner
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SegmentKing
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:45 am

Frontier's only hub will remain to be Denver. All the other cities will just be focal points, or cities with lots of flights (meaning, strictly O/D).

Good move Potter!

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:51 am

Having several "focus cities" around the country is a good way for us to get our name out there. Our home will always be DEN and rightfully so, but there are obvious oppurtunities elsewhere that we are going to exploit. Our product is a good fit for any major business/leisure market.

FYI, we just took delivery of two new a/c....one A318 and one A319, ships 805 and 926, respectively.


Steve/MSY
 
LambertMan
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:07 am

A superior product is what in my mind has won customers on the DEN-STL route. Before when AA was running 757's against F9's Mesa CRJ's, there was no competition and nobody even knew who F9 was in STL. Now that they have triumpthantly returned, offering as most people like to call them "little tv's in the headrests", people know who they are, and in some cases are going out of their way to fly F9. Hence, the success of the DEN route.

STL-LGA would be easy pickings for F9 assuming that they could do it, it's a heavy route w/ around 1400 pax per day and has only 5 AA S80's on it.

BTW, I'm liking the idea of a STL-DEN-LAX (small focus-hub-large focus) idea right now, very well balanced and well thought out. I would assume that this move into D has meanings for future growth right?
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:32 am

Mariner,

I was quoting another poster who was quoting you. Sorry for the mix up.

LGA would be great, but I agree that it will be a problem to get slots. I think that there is a resentment in STL against AA since they cut service and those customers are looking for alternatives besides Southwest. I truly believe there are some people that won't fly SWA regardless of their "media darling" status. The F9 product head to head against SWA is no contest in F9s favor. Frontier is not as well known but that is changing. The media loves JBLU as well, but I can't see anything that they offer that F9 doesn't offer except frequency up and down the east coast.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:36 am

According to two F9 staff who have posted on the Yahoo board, the gates are D4 and D6 with the first flight in tonight, April 7.

Quickmover:

Yes, after I had posted I re-read the thread and saw you were quoting LambertMan. It was early here and I still hadn't had my first coffee.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

cheers

mariner
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InnocuousFox
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:05 am

"would it make sense to maintain another hub in St.Louis, so close to DEN?"

So close? You are kidding me, right? That's about a thousand miles right there.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
jmy007
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:10 am

"would it make sense to maintain another hub in St.Louis, so close to DEN?"


Then I would guess DFW and ORD are way to close as well  Big grin

Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:16 am

ATL-DFW
ATL-CVG
ORD-IAD

... all current hub pairs that are lots closer than STL-DEN. In fact, ORD-DEN is not much farther than STL-DEN.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:20 am

I very much doubt that you will see an Eastern hub for Frontier at any time in the foreseeable future.

This (long) article from the Rocky Mountain News gives the history of the decision to expand at LAX:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_2779794,00.html

One of the key points is that Frontier thinks they are a "Western" airline, and they weren't keen on an Eastern hub.

I think they're right. The East Coast is shaping up as a blood bath. The arrival of Independence Air isn't going to make things any easier over there.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that Frontier will continue on thir present path - some expansion at LAX, but also some expansion of point to point services from cities such as STL.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:29 am

Lambert... you and I did call it correctly a few months back, though. All the available capacity at STL won't go unused for long. Other carriers will gradually move in to take advantage of cheap gates and untapped O&D.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
LambertMan
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:15 am

Thanks for that article Mariner, it was a good read. I will agree that there will be no "hub" (at least in the near future), but as I said up top, I would like it to be a five city station by this time next year. There are a number of destinations that would be easily done from STL by undercutting AA on their "prize"(not prize, but the best they've got) routes out of STL. I would almost assume that F9 stay off AA's turf here in STL because we could have a big problem if AA gets upset. A focus city would be great in my book (For an airline the size of F9, 5-6 cities would be one), a decent amount of service w/o cutting into AA's new found yield in St Louis.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:22 am

LambertMan:

If we assume there is any truth to the rumor about STL/LGA, then that gives you four cities from STL - DEN/LAX/CUN/LGA.

Which makes a very nice, if very small, route map from STL - cross country and one international. And, for New Yorkers, CUN might be quicker through STL than DEN.

I do agree that it would be best if F9 stayed out of AA's turf (excluding LGA and CUN, of course), but where would they go that doesn't cut into AA?

I can think of a couple, and at least one of those isn't in the US, but beyond that I'm a bit stumped.

As I said, I don't know STL all that well.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:26 am

Lambertman,

I remember back in 2000 when AA decided to come to STL and try out a few of TWA's "prized routes". They started with 3 daily STL-LAX, a few STL-LGA. I can't remember if there were others, but maybe STL-PHL. Within a year TWA was purchased. Isn't it funny how things go full circle and now AA is on the receiving end of "cherry picking"?
 
atcboy73
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:34 am

Only two gates. I was hoping for at least 4 so that we could have an indication of more expansion. But two isn't bad and its much better than the situation they have now on A.

I flew out on CO a few months ago and it seemed they were in a very temporary situation on A.

Could we see STL-BOS, PHL, DCA and ATL after more gates are oppened with out upsetting AA? And who knows, maybe AA would add capacity as the market gets bigger due to Frontiers competitive fares.
 
LambertMan
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:36 am

Quick,
That's odd, I don't ever remember hearing about AA on those routes, but I really wouldn't doubt it w/ AA's extensive point to point network over the years.
Mariner,
I'll agree that there isn't many places they can go w/o cutting into AA, but there are a few places where they could go where demand isn't necessarily satisfied by AA such as SAN, SJC, SFO, FLL, TPA, MSP......But I doubt we'll see any of those happening.

Who knows though, I know that the residents of St Louis are no longer partial to AA because of "What they did". Everyone interpreted as though AA was out to get St. Louis, which is a bad wrap for AA, because obviously that isn't what happened. There isn't much else to fly out of STL except for WN (which some people won't fly at all) besides AA, so thus the loyalty has remained in AA's lap. If another carrier such as F9 were to come in here with the product they offer, you can bet on FF'ers switching their loyalty to F9.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:46 am

LambertMan:

I hadn't thought of Florida. I assumed that AA had that pretty well covered from STL.

Howsumever, F9 does very well DEN/Florida during the winter. Obviously MCO and FLL, but, surprisingly to me, DEN/RSW is very good route for them.

So you never know.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
LambertMan
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:54 am

Mariner,
RSW seems to kind of be a sleeper market that always slips under the radar. I know almost all the ins and outs of the AA sched at STL and I tpyically forget that RSW is even served by AA. I know quite a few people who use the STL-RSW flight for trips to Naples and I think it performs pretty well for AA and typically goes out about 90% or fuller. I'm sure the yield is absoultely stellar though.  Yeah sure
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:57 am

Lambertman,

You're right about the loyalty that AA inherited. Some people value those FF miles more than gold and if they have to connect at ORD or DFW they will no matter what. Maybe F9's FF program with a 15k mile requirement vs. 25k on the majors should be promoted more.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:01 am

I would imagine AA will defend there turf and routes at STL! Tho IMHO I believe that the hubs of MIA, DFW and ORD are still more important than STL to AA.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
ultrapig
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:10 am

Lambertman:

St Louis won't see much more traffic until either (a) the economy not only rebounds but business traffic goes beyond the 1990's level and there is need for another mid continent hub.(2) St. Louis's own economy grows-

The first is possible the second is a real long shot.

I like St. Louis and am unhappy we don't have more air service-but if the smart people like air tran wn and jet blue haven't come here in the 8 months since the announcement of the dehubbing what makes you think that there is hope.

From what I can see we've gotten more frequent flights to the American Hubs and to the Cincinnati hub-and we've gotten two new nonstop (one a day on two routes) on wn which has reduced the gross number of flights. I've flown on the new Frontier Flights and they are very nice- but still just a tiny dent-Frankly the fact that you correctly note they and WN are cherry picking indicates to me that AA with its higher cost may eliminate one or more of its flights-

Bottom line no real new flights to new cities-even with WN, JBlue and F9 getting lots of new planes and the other airlines having plenty of them in the dessert-

Bottom line this is America and the market rules-

And as I have pointed out although we have a great city our airport terminal sucks
 
LambertMan
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:17 am

Ultrapig,

I'm not saying that we'll see that much more air traffic. I realize that we had no reason to have a 522 flight a day hub. Our O/d traffic is pretty much satisfied in some areas, but other areas where AA has a stranglehold on the market and the demand is a bit undercut, I'd like to see some moderate LCC growth. Above I said that I'd like a five city station, basically enough to give me an opportunity to travel on F9 if I ever need to go west or some place. If you've read my previous posts, you would notice I am extremely greatful that AA just didn't dump STL as a focus city/hub (whatever you want to call it) all together.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:37 am

"Bottom line this is America and the market rules-"

... until such time as your sustained quarterly net loss takes you under... in which case, profit rules.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:03 am

Lambertman,

I remember back in 2000 when AA decided to come to STL and try out a few of TWA's "prized routes". They started with 3 daily STL-LAX, a few STL-LGA. I can't remember if there were others, but maybe STL-PHL. Within a year TWA was purchased. Isn't it funny how things go full circle and now AA is on the receiving end of "cherry picking"?


AA launched no such expansions.
a.
 
ultrapig
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:12 am

Comments on Frequent flier miles are interesting-It is amazing what people will do to earn them-like connecting instead of going non-stop or paying $30-$50 extra for a ticket to earn $25 worth of miles.

My prediction is that with the miles getting harder to use (especially out of STL where you need to hit two available flights for availability) people will care less and less about them.
 
atrude777
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:46 am

I think its wonderful F9 sees something in STL, and is willing to move to the D-Concourse. I sure hope to fly them sometimes now. what peeves me off is im looking for a flight to OKC, and would love to try F9 so when I type in STL-OKC it says there is no flight, I knew that so i hoped they would connect me through DEN, but I guess not i would have to book two seperate flights. oh well, other then that Im glad F9 has a presence now.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:48 am

"Lambertman,

I remember back in 2000 when AA decided to come to STL and try out a few of TWA's "prized routes". They started with 3 daily STL-LAX, a few STL-LGA. I can't remember if there were others, but maybe STL-PHL. Within a year TWA was purchased. Isn't it funny how things go full circle and now AA is on the receiving end of "cherry picking"?

AA launched no such expansions. "


I would absolutely guarantee you that they did.
The flights all used super 80s from their old gates over on A. They were started only a short time before the takeover.



 
LambertMan
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F9 To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:16 am

Quickmover,

I certainly don't remember it and I have been following Lambert for a really long time. You may be thinking of when AA took over flying the JFK and DCA routes for TW right after the merger took place.

Atrude,

They aren't being forced to move the D concourse, they are happy to do it. They had no office space where they currently were in A, and basically had a temp operation setup by the looks of things. Remember now, this doesn't mean that F9 is committing to STL (hopefully they are however), it could be just because they needed the extra space, and after all they are only taking over two gates.
 
atrude777
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:23 am

I didn't mean to come across as if they were being forced, I realize its on there own freewill. I would love for them to expand, however i certainly dont count on it, but man 4 cities N/S is way MORE the i ever expected and will definetly accept it. I would like to see it on the STL-MCO route. However, whatever they see fits them best i can work with it.

ps- I also dont ever recall them doing some expansion, except when they took over TWA routes.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:20 pm

STL-LAX on AA started maybe 6 mos. before they announced the merger. If you remember, TWA started a focus city in San Juan with flights to LAX, BOS, MCO and maybe 1-2 more that I can't remember. Since AA had a small hub in San Juan, they retaliated with STL-LAX and STL-LGA. I'm a TWA fanatic and followed their unfortunate demise as well as their improved fleet and image in their last few years. If there are any AMR people around, please back me up.
 
jmy007
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:07 pm

Quickmover,

I remember those flights AA- STL-LAX,STL-LGA I think it was mid 2000 or so. I think it was only one or two flights a day.


From www.stltoday.com (st louis post dispatch archive)

"AMERICAN WILL OFFER DIRECT SERVICE FROM HERE TO LAGUARDIA
TWA SAYS THE MOVE IS IN RESPONSE TO ITS ROUTE TO PUERTO RICO
By Cynthia Wilson

Of The Post-Dispatch
St. Louis Post-Dispatch September 8, 2000

Section: BUSINESS Edition: FIVE STAR LIFT
Page C6 Word count: 594

ID#: 0009080283
American Airlines is stepping up its competition with Trans World Airlines Inc. on both coasts.

American, the nation's second-largest carrier based on fleet size, announced Thursday that it will begin daily nonstop service between St. Louis and New York's LaGuardia Airport. The service will begin Nov. 1, and will be offered three times daily on MD-80 aircraft modified to provide more legroom.

The airline, based in Fort Worth, Texas, said the move would mean more choices for "


(sorry it cost like 2.95 for the full artical)

Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:13 pm

I stand corrected. Very interesting. Did the flight ever actually launch?
a.
 
LambertMan
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:52 pm

It couldn't have. I've payed too close attention to St Louis over the years and the only AA changes I remember are the JFK and DCA ones. It was probably slated to start, then pushed back, then cancelled, you know the drill.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:01 pm

On the other hand, does anyone think that the only reason they're expanding in St. Louis is because they can't get more space in DEN? If there were to be a turn around in DEN and F9 got the gates they want, would it make sense to maintain another hub in St.Louis, so close to DEN?

According to F9 people here in STL, that's the exact reason for thier expansion here. Then again, not everyone gets the prized information on thier own company so who knows.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
atcboy73
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:18 am

IF they are taking over two gates as stated by someone above we will surly see at least one or two more routes announced.

Two gates with the currant schedule of 5 flights a day (3 to DEN and 2 to LAX)not counting CUN is kind of a mis match. I would think they could easily get eight flights a day and maybe as many as 10 or 11. If they are only going to stay with the currant schedule they would of just taken over one gate.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:36 am

Boeing_nut:

The issue of the gates at DIA was settled last November. It isn't prized information, it was widely reported in the press:

http://www.frontierairlines.com/news/articleDisplay.asp?article=/general/2003/pr_11112003a.news

Basically, Frontier gets the gates they want at DIA for their expansion through 2008.

It is true, however, that the situation at Denver, when they didn't know how the gate issue would be resolved, caused Frontier to look outside Denver.

So you have the ramp up at LAX and the increased point to point flying from other cities, such as STL.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Air1727
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RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:27 am

Frontier was going to move to D no matter what; just in due time...there was no mystery to that; it was just a matter of when. They were leasing American owned gates in a gridlocked concourse; that was never going to last when they can move over to D or elsewhere and lease from the Airport Authority/City.

The AAL flights to LAX started in the summer of 2000 pre-acquistion; the LGA flights were short lived having started in the fall of 2000 but deferred by the end of the year. They absolutely operated them; I remember the day(s) they started them.
In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.
 
F9Fan
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:42 pm

RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:55 am

I wonder if F9 will add some Florida service out of STL. I would think MCO, FLL, TPA, and possibly RSW would be good candidates for added service. These are cities they've had a lot of success on from DEN. I would think there would be plenty of leisure and some business travel from STL.

F9Fan
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:07 am

F9FAN- It would be awesome if they do that, however I dont see it happening. MCO has about 5-6 N/S flights on that route alone with Southwest and AA. IF and I do say IF F9 were to start a Florida city it would more likely be FLL, because there is only 2 N/S on that route, 1-AA and 1-WN. Also it would be great preparation in case B6 comes to town and starts a STL-FLL(not saying it will happen, just an example.).

Air1727- At first I said they didn't, but now I do recall seeing something like that. It did shock me they would do such a thing to a huge profitable(at least I thought it was at the time) TWA hub, and thought AA would go down.(not bankrupt, just drop the route because it was TWA's turf, not AA)


the rest- I sure hope Frontier sees great success at STL, and more destinations will hopefully be possible!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
ultrapig
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:38 pm

RE: Frontier To Move To Lambert's D

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:08 am

Today's St. Louis Business Journal this issue has not been posted on the Web yet) has a story entitled "Lambert surpass: American Up, Southwest Down" and describes what I said earlier here that as opposed to increasing its presence at Lambert WN has decreased it although it has added non-stops to two areas.

Since most people, even those who don't like to fly on it, concede that WN knows how to make a buck this confirms that the demand just isn't there for O&D> Perhaps this will quiet some of the former TWA people (not saying they were not good people or hard working) who thought there was some AA conspiracy or TWA management incompetence which lost their jobs.

The truth is that STL is a pretty good place to live. But it has insufficient O&D and a third world terminal. We'll get a few dribs of new flights when the new LCC's run out of places to land their planes but until the skies become saturated we will never be a hub again

Tell me why I am wrong?

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