airbusfanyyz
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YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:02 am

Well folks now that the original T1 (aeroquay for the purists) is closed, I went up to the roof of T3 yesterday. There is a nice view of the new T1 ops and also the T3 Int'l gates.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Grant Feggi



I decided to take some pics as I waited for the new PIA772 to pushback for departure back to KHI.

About 30mins later a GTAA Security truck pulled up alongside me.
The officer popped out and proceeded to ask me some questions. I gave him my yyzspotter card and he said "oh you're a yyzspotter, eh!". He was very nice and explained that a guest at the Sheraton Hotel located at T3 had called security because he saw some guy was on the roof with a "long thing" doing something suspicious.
The officer was quite nice and said there isn't a problem with spotters per say, but that obviously if someone calls in they have to check it out.

In fact he was quite helpful, and gave me some valuable advice to help spotters here at YYZ. So spotters be on the look-out for jittery hotel guests.  Smile

Cheers,
Kaz
 
EMBTucano
Posts: 234
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:27 am

Canadian officers are nice as usual.

How does this yyzspotter card works?

Cheers
---- Use GNU/LINUX and be free! ----
 
cytz_pilot
Posts: 389
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:27 am

Wow, I had no idea that there was a view to be had from the T3 parking garage. Is it well known by other spotters?

I'll have to check it out...it's nice to hear there could be a location that is easy to get to by TTC...most aren't.

Thanks!  Smile
Chris
 
USAFHummer
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:28 am

Can you explain the "yyzspotter" card, please??

Thanks,
Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
Danny
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:28 am

Could you describe how to get to that location?
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:53 am

The "yyzspotter card" is a photo ID card to identify spotters as a member of our yyzspotter organization.
This is a new initiative started by myself and a few other dedicated spotters to ensure a trouble-free spotting experience around Toronto Pearson. We are working closely with several groups to make this happen.
http://www.yyzspotter.com

Cheers,
Kaz
 
EMBTucano
Posts: 234
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:01 am

AirbusfanYYZ,

Real nice initiative !! That is the dream of all spotters: trouble free spotting

Cheers
---- Use GNU/LINUX and be free! ----
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:13 am

Very freakin' cool. I know there are some OMA people around here. Maybe that's something we could get started. And then you could even have "guest access" to other airports that recognize the program! Of course, in the US, we are a little more anal about things like this still... *sigh*
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
miamix707
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:11 am

Maybe in the near future something like that could be done by spotters here in the states. At least it would give any unfriendly security personnel or police something to think about before they automatically say that "photography is illegal" and any other typical non-sense.

I see more local photographers/planewatchers at my local airport than ever before. If enough people get together and make some kind of ID, it would make the atmosphere for enthusiasts more relaxed. Great for those spotting near airports like JFK, EWR, etc where you could really get hassled.
 
canuckpaxguy
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:29 am

Sign me up!

I'm surprised the good Captain (Nuno) hasn't replied to this yet. Such a card could have come in handy last year after he got hassled by a number of GTAA security and local police.

Great idea!

G

 
captaingomes
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:13 pm

hehe, thanks George, I'm actually one of the people who are working on this project, but I must say, for now about 90% of the work has been done by Kaz. It's his idea, and it's being amalgamated with an idea I had previously. We have some short, mid and long term goals, and so far the whole thing is very much in its infancy. There is still a lot of work to be done, there's a need for material, and also a need to get a better idea of how the memberships will work. This will have a lot to do with the response we get, and also how meetings go with the relevant authorities. The good news is so far the relevant authorities are very enthusiastic.

As more is known towards the middle of spring, more will be revealed. I have really high hopes for yyzspotter.  Smile
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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yyz717
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:24 pm

I'm actually one of the people who are working on this project, but I must say, for now about 90% of the work has been done by Kaz.

Then you must be in the <10% group.  Smile

Seriously, while it's a good idea that somehow a "yyzspotter" card will prevent spotters from being hassled by neanderthals in uniform (aka cops), I should not have to carry around some official "spotting" card to avoid harassment.

Trouble free spotting should be available to everyone, not just members of some secret brotherhood.  Laugh out loud Unless you plan to conduct security checks on all yyzspotter members, there is nothing inherently "safer" about a yyzspotter member.

Neil

PS....nice work Kaz on your efforts!



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
captaingomes
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:32 pm

Neil, I couldn't agree more with you, and the idea isn't to form some elitist group that will be allowed to spot, while others aren't. I hate the fact that I can't go to certain public areas and just watch aircraft, such as FedEx, or the infield. Heck, even T1 has been targetted, which was recognized as an official spotting area.

But given the circumstances that spotters are presented with these days, I hate to say that maybe there isn't another option for the time being, than to have spotters officially represented somehow so that the authorities have a better idea of what we are doing. I will tell you, this whole idea started at the suggestion of somebody who is an authority on airport security. And no, this is not a story like somebody we know who met Robert Milton, so spare me.

YYZSpotter will have more than just the ID cards anyways, but that will take time. Hopefully by late spring or early summer things will be in full force.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:45 pm

Neil,
Thanks for the kind words. Like Nuno has mentioned security is a fact of life. We're just trying to make things easier for people. More developments and info to follow.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
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yyz717
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:50 pm

I hate the fact that I can't go to certain public areas and just watch aircraft, such as FedEx, or the infield.

Hmmm....I have NEVER been hassled.  Sad Perhaps it's because I'm often in a suit on a weekday between west-end meetings. Damn...I'm in the mood to be hassled.

I will tell you, this whole idea started at the suggestion of somebody who is an authority on airport security.

Hmmm.....I hear ya, but I think the GTAA is overstepping its bounds here.

And no, this is not a story like somebody we know who met Robert Milton,

Huh? What does Robert Milton have to do with this? He will bankrupt yyzspotter if you let him get involved!  Big grin

YYZSpotter will have more than just the ID cards anyways, but that will take time.

Will you be forwarding members' names on to the GTAA? Or some law enforcement group?

Regards
Neil


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
captaingomes
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:13 pm

Yes, we are working with one of the law enforcement groups, and to the best of my knowlege, they will have the names of the members. But I'm not the one taking care of that, and it's still ongoing.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
ordpark
Posts: 564
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:07 pm

what a terrific idea! I wonder what it would take to get that started at other airports....maybe form a network where you could obtain 'guest' privileges at cooperating airports...
 
Skydrol
Posts: 1053
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:29 pm

Yyz717 wrote:
>>>
Seriously, while it's a good idea that somehow a "yyzspotter" card will prevent spotters from being hassled by neanderthals in uniform (aka cops), I should not have to carry around some official "spotting" card to avoid harassment.

Trouble free spotting should be available to everyone, not just members of some secret brotherhood.
<<<

Exactly the right points!

There are many people who just do this occasionally for something fun for their children to see, and others like myself who visit from out of town, so neither would qualify as hardcore YYZ spotters. Without the ID card would everyone else get asked to leave? That's not fair either.


>>>
Unless you plan to conduct security checks on all yyzspotter members, there is nothing inherently "safer" about a yyzspotter member.
<<<

And unfortunately this is another sad reality.

That was one of the things I liked about the terminal one parking garage, I could spend hours up there taking pictures without ever being harassed. Now, apparently this will be gone, and also the unique spotting opportunites it provided aviation enthusiasts who visited YYZ from around the world.




LD4
∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:08 pm

Skydrol,

I agree with you that not all of the aviation enthusiasts spend obscene amounts of time at the airport like gmonney, captaingomes, awspicious, cessnapimp, slawko and I.  Smile
We are working hard to accomodate everyone, we will release more information as things become more finalized.

Although Neil's utopian vision of "Trouble free spotting should be available to everyone,..." is well and good, the reality is that just is not the case since 9/11 given our proximity to an extremely jittery US.

I have never been hassled by authorities at YYZ, whether they be PRP, RCMP, or GTAA.
But rather than be considered a nuisance, we want to foster a level of trust and partnership between them and us.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
yow
Posts: 2125
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:17 am

Maybe in consulation with the GTAA the yyzspotter card could be taken one step further by having some sort of landside pass issued. Of course this would cost GTAA some $$$, but for a nominal fee, I would imagine many people would be willing to pay $5-10 for access to the remaining on-site spotting places like FedEx.

Strangely enough, last Sunday, when I made my final trek to T1 old, some guy managed to get his old station wagon up onto the roof. But after about 1/2 hour, security came by to tell him to park it down below. Hey station wagon guy, if you're on here, identify yourself.  Laugh out loud
 
martinairyyz
Posts: 1188
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:19 am

I hate the fact that I can't go to certain public areas and just watch aircraft, such as FedEx, or the infield.



I've never been hassled and to all those who have, maybe you just look like terrorists? Or have bad luck at airports? *cough* Nuno *cough*

I would imagine many people would be willing to pay $5-10 for access to the remaining on-site spotting places like FedEx

Hell no!! I'm not paying $5-$10 to go to places where I have never been hassled! For those who feel they need to, go ahead!

Strangely enough, last Sunday, when I made my final trek to T1 old, some guy managed to get his old station wagon up onto the roof.

How is that possible? Did he cut down the gate leading to the roof? Jeez!
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
backfire
Posts: 3467
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:01 am

RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:25 am

So spotters be on the look-out for jittery hotel guests


Sounds to me like this "jittery" guest was someone who (for once) had the balls to report something he didn't think seemed right. I'm personally glad that there are still people in this world who take a bit of responsibility and not just pass by hoping someone else will deal with it.

So the chap with the camera was innocent - no harm done. Good on the security personnel for being sensible about it.

It makes me wonder how many crimes and other incidents might be prevented if other people were prepared to stand up and have the courage to act.
 
airbusfanyyz
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:01 am

RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:56 am

Martin,
After far too many of these childish comments I must respond. What exactly does a "terrorist" look like? Please control your off the cuff comments because clearly you haven't clue about what you speak. They are not amusing to us and are a form of racial/ethnic profiling that has no place here or anywhere!

Yow,
FedEx is not an on-site location. I cannot give out too much information here, stay tuned to the website for updates.

Backfire,

I agree, as I was the innocent chap with the camera. I just wanted to share with my fellow spotters that as long as we have a positive attitude about things, the authorities here are more than understanding. The last thing we want is a confrontational spotter who causes all spotters to be painted with a negative brush.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:53 am

"I've never been hassled and to all those who have, maybe you just look like terrorists?"

What was that?

"Hell no!! I'm not paying $5-$10 to go to places where I have never been hassled! For those who feel they need to, go ahead!"

Settle down...


[Edited 2004-04-08 22:55:21]
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:07 am

Just a quick response. Like I said, yyzspotter is not for everybody, and it is not an elitist group. I, and others have been hassled before, and we're basically looking for ways to ensure we can cooperate with the authorities, rather than fight against them. This is how progress is made, instead of being confrontational, or just letting things happen.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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yyz717
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RE: YYZ T3 Spotting Incident

Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:36 am

we're basically looking for ways to ensure we can cooperate with the authorities, rather than fight against them. This is how progress is made,

Sounds more like regress than progress Nuno. What you are basically doing is offering to ask for permission to spot.

Every minor security issue on the airport periphery will immediately push your name to the broad suspect list Nuno if you forward your name (and all yyzspotter member names) to the GTAA or Peel police. Moreover, if a future yyzspotter member ever causes a minor security issue, you will be guilty by association, theoretically.

I can understand your particular social need to belong to an official spotting club Nuno but you could be opening a pandora's box by offering your name voluntarily to any security service.






I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.

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