7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:24 am

I know that AccessAir or ProAir served DET but i was wondering if DET is even still open. What airlines in the past have served that airport and does nyone think that any airlines will have service to that airport?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
jeffrey1970
Posts: 1235
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:41 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:39 am

Southwest used to serve DET until they moved to DTW.
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:48 am

Correction WN started service at DTW and then added DET! DET Airport never was able to do the upgrades promised so WN left and concentrated all there efforts at DTW
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:50 am

how bad of shape was DET in?
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:53 am

It is a small terminal in a residential area, also an area that is not the nicest to be in after dark, or really anytime for that matter. Growth of the airport is only going to happen if they buy out houses and also move a cemetery! Right now they can not extend the runway because of this reason. Hope this helps.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:55 am

I see what you are saying. The only problem is i doubt that DET will get expanded or upgraded considering everything is going toward DTW. I think it would be nice to have DET upgraded...more LCCs could come in and drive fares lower...or at least hopefully lower  Smile
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
neilalp
Posts: 1009
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2000 3:16 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:58 am

Well I am not against the expanding of DET, but I am against the moving of the cemetery. I have many family memebers at rest there and would hate for them to be relocated.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:59 am

I honestly do not see anything happening with the airport myself. The negatives out weigh the positives and until that changes nothing at the DET airport will.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:59 am

It seems like that they are in a similar situation as MDW. The only way to expand MDW to have more runways would be to demolish many city blocks
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
sushka
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 12:33 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:15 am

I went there last month. The terminal reminded me of the movie Langoliers  Big grin There were a few GA airplanes flying there though and a Falcon 2000.

Here are two pictures I took there:
http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/show.cgi?194199
http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/show.cgi?194445
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:15 am

Well yes and no, even if DET expanded it could never reach the size of MDW the land is just not there.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Guest

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:43 am

Quite a few airlines have served DET. US Air Express flew DET-MDW with 19-seat turoboprop (Dornier 228?) after WN departed... I'm not sure how long the service lasted, though. Spirit wanted to fly DET-LGA (and later other key business communities) with DC-9-20. Most recently, DL proposed DET-CVG with CRJ last year, provided they got a subsidy.

DET's website has pictures of the terminal... look under the Passenger Terminal heading:
http://www3.ci.detroit.mi.us/airport/information.htm

Correction WN started service at DTW and then added DET!
Now that you've mentioned it (here and elsewhere), I remember as well. I remember my dad carrying me around (now THAT illustrates how long ago this was  Big grin) the L.C. Smith Terminal. The airlines' were cramped for ticket counter space, so Southwest set-up shop in the dead-center of the check-in area... my dad use to buy me 'blue moon' ice cream from ice cream store that was near where the PGA shop is today... anyway, I'd eat the ice cream and watch the WN people cart the bags around, since there were no moving belts (since WN was set-up in the middle of the terminal).
 
Guest

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:48 am

Don't people in the neighborhood around the airport have a penchant for firing handguns at the airplanes?
 
penguinflies
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 12:00 pm

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:51 am

Is it me or is it funny they have pictures of their urinals on their website??
 
Guest

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:52 am

Don't people in the neighborhood around the airport have a penchant for firing handguns at the airplanes?

My older brother lives five minutes from DET. I visited with him one weekend, and on the way back we stopped at a gas station one block from his house. It was late so naturally I was nervous, but he assured me the situation was safe. After he gassed up and got back into the car, I asked him what made him so sure... he told me 'because the place was robbed and the owner killed a couple days ago so why would they strike again?'
 
AIR757200
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 8:30 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:55 am


Pictures: http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/airport/information.htm

The ticket lobby/gates don't look all that bad. And yes, a picture of the bathroom is on the site.
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:18 am

Hey PATE..you forgot the originals at DET..Tag and Wright flying to Cleveland
Burke Lakefront in the 60's and early 70's.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
timz
Posts: 6102
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:03 am

Well, as for originals... wasn't DET the Detroit airport before WWII?
 
txagkuwait
Posts: 1388
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 1999 7:39 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:59 am

I flew WN from OKC-MCI-MDW-DET back in '93 or '94...returning DET-STL-OKC.

It was very interesting to say the least.

I rented a car from hertz in the terminal. It was 11:20 pm at night when we got in. The rent car clerk pointed out the door towards an area with high, concertina wire fence and told me the cars were in there.

Her suggestion was to run and get in the car, and after leaving the fenced area to drive fast.....dont stop for stop signs or stop lights....until I got to I-94.

She assured me prior to me getting to I-94 that the police would not ticket me for running stops signs or speeding.

It was, in fact, close to where I was going (Warren MI) but in retrospect I think I would do DTW next time.

I'm not sure what I expected....something like Houston Hobby ot Dallas Love Field....something close to downtown but still an airport.

DET was like a runway and little terminal building just happened to spring up on the block. Weird.
 
Markus
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:05 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:27 am

Don't forget that as recently as 1987 both BAS and Comair also operated the DET-BKL route...BAS with Cessnas and Comair with EMB-110s. Some of the BAS flights originated and/or ended in Youngstown (YNG).
Cheers,
Markus
 
thestooges
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:46 pm

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:04 pm

Industrial Pate-

completely off the topic, but I too grew up as kid in Detroit, and also indulged in "Blue Moon" ice cream. I have not heard that name for something like 20 years. Yet another of my long forgotten Detroit memories.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition !!
 
jeffrey1970
Posts: 1235
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:41 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:07 pm

was this a nice airport when it was in full operation?
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4111
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:22 pm

Going back to the USAir Express service that came to DET in the mid 90s...

CAK - 2 flights daily
MDW - 7 flights daily
CLE - 6 flights daily
IND - 5 flights daily

From Metro for those that care...
BWI - 1 flight daily
CLT - 5 flights daily
DAY - 3 flights daily
PHL - 4 flights daily
PIT - 6 flights daily

The flights from DET were operated by Chautauqua using the Saab 340s...not sure if any Metros made it up there, but they did operate the TOL-IND (5 times a day) that were operated at the same time.
 
barney captain
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:37 pm

Ah yes.......good ol' DET. Can't say I miss it; Captain only landing, nasty crosswinds on a snow covered runway only 75' wide, but hey, at least it was short!  Big grin
Southeast Of Disorder
 
A340Spotter
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:52 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:55 pm

Since it's only been briefly mentioned, Pro Air (P9/PRH) hubbed here from July 4, 1997 to September 18, 2000 with 737-300s and 737-400s. As a founding member of this airline, I can say that we did our best to work with the city to make DET more appealing and safe, improved the roads greatly surrounding the airport, and helped get the terminal improved to what is seen today on their website. WN layed the groundwork for the terminal and P9 updated it.

Pro Air started by serving DET-BWI, then IND, EWR, and MKE. Flights on our 737-400s (8/138 seating) were full to MKE in less than a month after service started there, of course prompting a response from NW which ultimately led to MKE being the first city dropped! We eventually served PHL, ATL-MCO, LGA, MDW-SEA, and weekend non-stop charter flights to RSW and MCO.
A few things always hindered us at DET though. Runway length was an issue (5001' x 100'), but we worked with what we had (great pilots and dispatchers!). Getting the families to move the cemetary was something we would have loved to see (our CEO has family buried there too), but was unrealistic.
Another thing that worked against us was that we were dealing with the Detroit City government and investment fund. Every time we were "set" to get money released from this investment fund, the wheels of bureaucracy hit the brakes...It made operating P9 on a small budget and only getting a nibble instead of a feast...
I won't get into the FAA side of things as that's another thread for a different lifetime, but that is one reason that DET didn't have anything to do with.

All in all, for the 3 plus years that Pro Air operated at DET, we did our best to revitalize a part of Detroit that needed help, and I think that we did a good job in adding to the city's economy by serving this small, yet strategically located airport.

Jeffrey
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
azo
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:59 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:55 pm

I loved flying ProAir out of DET. It was so much more convenient than driving all the way to DTW from Southeast Oakland. Of the probably 5 or 6 times my family flew out of DET on P9, we never had any problems with security down there, and we left a car in long term parking each time.

Since I do not live around Detroit anymore, it is not as prevalent but it would be nice to see someone else come in there, even if only with regional aircraft. I found the terminal to be in very good condition, especially considering its age and use.
Kalamazoozoozoozoozoozoozoo
 
BeltwayBandit
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:25 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:48 am

I flew ProAir to DET once. Spirit was at one time trying to fly DC-9-21s from DET to LGA. It got hung up on the LGA side and never happened. I was told by the Spirit guys that a fully loaded Southwest 737 could barely get off the ground on a hot day. Probably exaggerating, but that's the reason Spirit wanted the DC-9-21. It had the big wing and stronger engines, on a shorter fuselage.
 
electraBob
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:11 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:14 am

Northwest Airlink flew from DET to BKL in the late '80s using Dornier 228's. At the same time, Delta Connection also flew from DET to BKL using Saab 340's.

In the mid-'70s, a small carrier called Skystream Airlines (airline code was DN) flew Beech 99's from Detroit City Airport to.........Chicago Meigs Field.

When Southwest served both DTW and DET, they offered service from both airports to MDW and STL. If I remember correctly, the new service to Nashville was flown only from Detroit City. When WN pulled out of City Airport, they shifted the Nashville service and the some of DET's Midway and St. Louis flights to Detroit Metro.

Someone mentioned TAG airlines.....I remember them flying DeHavilland Dove's from Detroit City to Cleveland Burke Lakefront. One of their aircraft crashed into Lake Erie in 1970 or 1971. That was the end of TAG Airlines.

Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.....
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:18 am

ElectraBob
The Tag crash was Jan of 70. The flight was the morning originator from Burke to DET. A wing came off in flight and the plane went straight down into the ice covered lake. Tag shut down for a while then came back, but was never the same company. Wright was in service in March of 71 because I picked up a buddy of mine at DET who came in from Burke one Friday night there.
About the NW airlink, are you sure that wasn't Simmons before they got hooked up with NW. Simmons was kind of lone eagle for a while. Then(Simmons) went with NW as airlink, then American Eagle bought Simmons, moved most of the birds to ORD which caused NW to start a relationship with Mesaba and brought Mesaba planes from Minnesota to DTW. The rest is history with NW and Mesaba.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
electraBob
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:11 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:14 pm

Isitsafenow --

Thanks for the info on the TAG Airlines crash - I have searched all over for info on that crash and have not had much success.

The NW Airlink service at Detroit City Airport was operated by Fischer Brothers Aviation -- they were also operating flights out of Detroit Metro as Northwest Airlink. Cities served from DTW were Cleveland, Columbus, Flint, Grand Rapids and Lansing using Dornier 228 and Casa 212 equipment. At the same time, Simmons was operating as Republic Express. Numerous cities in Michigan and Ohio were served using the Namco YS-11, Shorts 360 and Embraer Bandeirante. After the NW/RC merger, the new Northwest used both Fischer Bros. and Simmons as it's commuter partners for a time....the 1987 Casa 212 crash at DTW was operated by Fischer Bros.
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.....
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:19 pm

US Airways Express did fly Metros out of DET around 1995, If I am not mistaken they were flying some of their newly delivered at the time D328 props too.

As for Southwest, I don't believe they ever flew to BNA from DET.

BNA didn't become a Southwest "hub" or focus city until AA pulled out in late 1995-96 whenever that was. Southwest pulled out of DET long before that like 1993, maybe 1994 at the latest.

 
electraBob
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:11 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:50 pm

HlywdCatft -

You very well may be correct on the Southwest BNA service from Detroit. I used to have quite a few old WN timetables, but I must have heaved them...Oh well.  Smile
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.....
 
N312RC
Posts: 2584
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 10:58 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:01 am

Someone asked if DET was the main Detroit airport before the DTW days. The answer to that question is No. The main airport for Detroit before DTW was KYIP (Ypsilanti, Willow Run Airport). Willow Run is about 15 minutes from DTW by car and now is primarily a freight airport.
N/A
 
zrb2
Posts: 847
Joined: Sat May 20, 2000 10:07 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:18 am

Interesting to hear about all the 737 service into DET in past years. The runway there seems about the same length and width as PDK in Atlanta. I couldn't imagine 737's landing there.
 
FLAIRPORT
Posts: 3863
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:46 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:49 am

My question is...
is anyone operating out of the terminal at the moment...it seems strangly empty!

Also, i saw a Hertz sign, do they have an agent there and what other shops/agencies are there?

Overall, the terminal is nice and in good condition

If DL starts this, they'll certinly have a lot of room!
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:59 am

I stand corrected. Rather than trust my memory any further, I checked with schedule planning this morning, and we did indeed start DTW first (6-4-87) and ran DET from July 1988 to September 1993.

This is from this thread for the dates WN operated service from DET

http://airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1410665/
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:41 am

ELECTRABOB
I forgot about Fischer Brothers Aviation. I flew em DTW to FNT on a CASA. I also did the Simmons YS 11 MBS and LAN to ORD and a Simmons Bandit DTW to LAN that landed on the hardly used runway 24 at LAN. I forgot all about that. Thanks for the comeback. I remember the CASA that flipped on final approach on then 21R and slid into gate F 11, or about 25 feet short of it. NW was lucky the gate was empty at the time. I flew through DTW two days later and they were removing the fuselage onto a flatbed when I was changing planes on the F.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
A340Spotter
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:52 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:59 am

Zrb2,

Operating a 737-400 in and out of DET wasn't too bad, though in crosswinds it was a bit more demanding of skill. Generally speaking, the Captains did all of the landings here.
The planes always came in with flaps 40, so V speeds were actually pretty low. Max braking was used, but sometimes wasn't required. Departing, P9 always took off with flaps 15, giving the needed lift to get going. The 737-400s also had the CFM56-3C1 engines which provided 23.5K thrust when fully used, and they were for DET departures. We derated out of all of the other stations mentioned, or at least were dispatched that way.
If you think operating 737s was interesting, during our mx checks, we actually dry-leased a Pan Am 727-200 and a Sunworld 727-200 to handle the flights and yes, they operated safely out of DET as well, though one of them blew over a few of the fences powering up for takeoff and knocked one of the landing instruments offline!

Jeffrey
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:07 am

**Someone asked if DET was the main Detroit airport before the DTW days. The answer to that question is No. The main airport for Detroit before DTW was KYIP (Ypsilanti, Willow Run Airport). Willow Run is about 15 minutes from DTW by car and now is primarily a freight airport.**

I think he meant prior to WWII.

Willow Run wasn't all that much until WWII when Ford built the B-24 there.

I think prior to WWII, Detroit's main airports were City Airport and the Ford Airport in Dearborn (no longer an airport, located across the street from Greenfield Village, now a test track for Ford).


Wasn't Pan Am supposed to fly Jet Streams into City Airport a couple years ago?
 
KarlB737
Posts: 2634
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: Detroit City Airport

Sat Apr 10, 2004 6:57 am

I can remember seeing at Willow Run in 1955 or 1956 Eastern 707's and Northwest Stratocruisers as passenger service was there until Metro was ready in about 1957.
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: Detroit City Airport

Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:47 am

yeah Willow Run was the Detroit Airport post WWII until about 1957. For a while, both airports were operating as passenger before all pax service moved to DTW.

I have some old pics of Connies and Convairs at YIP somewhere my grandfather took.
 
dc8jet
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:40 pm

RE: Detroit City Airport

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:04 pm

The only airlines that operated from Ford Airport were those associated with Ford Motor Company, mainly Stout Airlines and Ford Air Transport Service. The airport closed in October of 1947.

DET was the airport served by the airlines. Willow Run was not built until 1941. Airline service started around 1946.
 
dc8jet
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:40 pm

RE: Detroit City Airport

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:20 pm

Almost forgot! At one time in the fifties North Centarl was flying DET-YIP with DC-3s.

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