aguilo
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:52 am

Are ERJs Underpowered?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:44 am

Doesn't it seem like ERJ145s are somewhat underpowered?

Considering their small size and narrow aerodynamic fuselage, they seem to take forever to get the front tires off the tarmac - the engines seeming to spool up power quite slowly. Little to no push back in your seat either. Even a DH8 or a SAAB340 has SOME oomph on take off, surprised the jet powered ERJs don't.

Seems they have "just enough" power but not much extra
 
NWAirlinkFO
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:56 pm

RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:37 pm

I do not fly the ERJ, but I'm willing to bet depending on which airline you were on, that they utilize FLEX takeoff's. These are reduced power takeoff parameters which require less thrust and longer takeoff rolls to preserve engine life. It could be that the ERJ does have a low power engine take-off, but I can tell you that in the CRJ our FLEX reduced thrust TO is MUCH less than the full power version. There is a HUGE difference in feeling between the two. EX: You will think to yourself.....wow that is really a lot of thrust on the full power takeoff and on the other you will think: is that enough to get off the ground! Hope that helps.
 
trident2e
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RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:57 pm

I always felt they were quite powerful - they certainly have a good rate of climb immediately after take-off.
 
ha763
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Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:04 pm

The 145 has a thrust to weight ratio of 0.31, compared to the 777-200ER's 0.29. There is no question that the 777 is not underpowered, as are all twins. I have to agree that you have experienced reduced thrust takeoffs.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 13477
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RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:05 pm

Probably designed by the same people who designed the A340  Insane

They're certificated by the relevant authorities, so they cannot be underpowered.
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aguilo
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:52 am

RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:32 pm

Thanks NWAirlinkFO, didn't know about that low power take off - very interesting though!

My ERJ expereinces have all been 145s on CO, US and DL.

Out of curiosity: When do you use the Full Power version? Does the airline monitor what settings you are using? Wouldn't it be more "fun" to just slip that baby into full power all the time? Do they monitor your fuel consumption or something on a per pilot basis?
 
757lgw
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 9:34 pm

RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:09 am

The ERJ may be a little underpowered considering it is a Regional Jet and is expected to operate out of short runways. I remember that when Jetmagic wanted to fly the ERJ 135 into LCY it had to use the engines from the ERJ 145 as the ERJ 135 engines were not powerful enough to operate out of LCY's short runway.
 
aguilo
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:52 am

RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:09 am

FYI 757LGW: On a short runway, you want to have an "overpowered" engine not an underpowered one so you can get up to speed faster and take off sooner...
 
A340600
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:24 pm

RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:26 am

Isn't that what 757lgw is saying

Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
SW733US
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:29 am

757lgw meant (if you read carefully) that Its a little underpowered even though it is expected to take off from short fields.
 
USAIRWAYS321
Posts: 1706
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 4:31 pm

RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:30 am

That's what he meant, yes, but he mixed the words up early in the post, it's no big deal though...
 
DeltaMD11
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2002 4:56 am

RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:33 am

Aguilo,
It's not very uncommon these days that a pilot does not set full-power for takeoff. Why burn more fuel and put more stress on the engine and it's components when it is not needed? Of course a lot of factors play into this though such as weight, temperature, runway length, humidity, winds...but in favorable conditions it's a common practice.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
USAIRWAYS321
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RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:39 am

Also, many airlines do monitor fuel consumption by pilot, especially in times like these when the economy is relatively poor and fuel prices are rising. If a pilot uses a higher amount of Jet A than the average too often, he will likely find himself sitting down with the higher-ups, an unpleasant experience.
 
Ryanair737
Posts: 1364
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:14 am

RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:39 am

You see many ERJ's at MAN, which is my local airport. They certainly lack the oomph on take-off, they take up quite a bit of runway, and the initial climb off the ground is quite shallow. But the reason for this is probably because the airlines utilize the Flex reduced take-off thrust procedure like Nwairlinkfo said.


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Ryanair737
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planemaker
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RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:45 am

"Even a DH8 or a SAAB340 has SOME oomph on take off, surprised the jet powered ERJs don't."

A turboprop will typically always have higher initial acceleration than a turbofan. FYI, the ERJ turbofans are the same as on the Citation X which is the fastest civilian jet.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
A340600
Posts: 3893
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RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:56 am

Yes they are VERY slow climbers, but that's mainly because of their low thrust takeoffs,

Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
sulman
Posts: 1963
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Are ERJs Underpowered?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:04 am

Full 'rated' power takeoffs are performed regularly by crews, to ensure that the engines will manage the task. All this means is that the crew will not enter any assumed temperature for the engines EPR or N1 setting, nor will they use any derates.

Typically, assumed temperature or 'flex' power settings are the norm.
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