BR715-A1-30
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Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:55 pm

Ok, so we all know Mr. Boeing Bethune is retiring in December. Now that this is occurring, do you think Continental Airlines will ever order Airbus. I mean, eventually, they will get a CEO who likes Airbus planes. So what then?

Your thoughts.
Puhdiddle
 
Continental
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:58 pm

No they will not. They are an all Boeing fleet, commonality, they do not want to add anything else. They're doing well as is, with their young, efficient fleet. I'd say no, they most likely will not get Airbuses.

 
cloud4000
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:59 pm

Of course, I never say never, but Continental doesn't have any plans to by Airbus now or the near future. They are strictly a Boeing shop-- 737,757/767, and 777. They will probably be early contenders for the 7E7 as well.

So ordering an Airbus would seen as odd.
Boston, USA
 
SJU767
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:04 pm

I hope that will never happens, Continental = Boeing.
 
phollingsworth
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:04 pm

Not meant to imply an anti-Airbus bias, but why exactly would Continental want to purchase Airbus a/c, at least in the near future? Their fleet is relatively young. When it comes time to replace the current mainstay vehicles, i.e., 737s, 767s, 777s, MD80s (which can easily be replaced by 737s), they could look at Airbus (no reason not to), but as it currently stands I can't think of a reason to add an Airbus a/c to the fleet. The only area where Boeing currently falls flat is a direct, range capable competitor to the A332 (this will change when the A380 enters service). Of course Boeing is shopping the 7E7, but that hasn't been launched yet.
 
jumbojet
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:04 pm

It wouldnt surprise me. UAL is all boeing exept for their A320's. AA is all Boeing except for the A3's. It if would save money, I wouldnt put it past any carrier to have a mixed fleet.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:09 pm

They have the MD8x straggling around, though parts come from Boeing, its not a Boeing a/c.

I even saw one in CLE last month.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
HOMER71
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:32 pm

Well, why did CO retire its AB3s in the mid 90's...to go to an all-Boeing fleet, or did they have a specific problem with the Airbus?
"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
 
brons2
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:38 pm

For them to buy an Airubs plane, it would have to be a wholesale subfleet change, ie, 737/757 for A32x. Since they seem to be reasonably well satisfied with the 737NG and they fly the 757 transatlantic (which no Airbus NB can do), what is the incentive to do that?
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:39 pm

The Airbus A300-RB4's had performance issues (high altitude airports) and were in relatively poor shape and getting old by the time they were taken out of the fleet (early 1990's).

Continental will not order Airbus. They have a new, all-Boeing mainline jet fleet that fits their needs, and allows them to tweak capacity depending on demand (i.e. 737-700/800/900, 757-200/300, 767-200/400)

ContinentalEWR
 
brons2
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:43 pm

The Airbus A300-RB4's had performance issues (high altitude airports) and were in relatively poor shape and getting old by the time they were taken out of the fleet (early 1990's).

Yes, I rode on one of these CO A300's in Aug of 1994 IAH-SFO; it was in poor condition and the AC was weak, making the plane uncomfortably warm in flight. After that flight I hated Airbus planes until I flew on an A332 in 2001.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
Guest

RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:45 pm

One of the peculiarities of export financing is that it is sometimes easier for Boeing to finance planes to other nations and Airbus to finance planes to the USA rather than Airbus to the European Union and Boeing to the USA. I think Spirit Airlines just found that out. But even at that, it still would not be practical for Continental to lose equipment commonality.

 
COAB767
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:45 pm

Yeah I agree with most everyone. Continental would never order Airbus aircraft due to the easiness of just having one aircraft maker in the fleet. Also I don't think CO would like to have more Airbus aircraft anyway.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:46 pm

They might do the little RFP tango though, just to keep Boeing on their toes.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
AA737-823
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:57 am

They are moving toward a three family fleet- the 737, 757-767 (common type rating), and the 777. They will achieve this when they (sadly) eliminate the MD-80.

Airbus invented the concept of commonality- cost reduction through intentional similarities across a product range. Continental saw the advantage, and has consolidated it's fleet into a profit machine. Why change now?

BR715, I am ashamed of you and this heresy.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:16 am

Airbus invented the concept of commonality- cost reduction through intentional similarities across a product range.

No they didn't. In 1967, the 737-200 cockpit was nearly identical to the 727 cockpit. In 1980, the the 757 and 767 shared common cockpit ratings as well as type certification-


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The first link of the Airbus common family, the A320, didn't fly untill 1988.

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CanadianNorth
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:26 am

733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, MD80, 752, 753, 762, 764, 772, possible 7E7... I really dont see Airbus coming into the picture anytime soon. Not that the Airbus is a bad product, but simply Continental Airlines currently has a great modern and efficient fleet as it is, with no need really to add more types.


CanadianNorth
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Thrust
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:45 am

I doubt Continental will order Airbus. The only Airbus aircraft they ever operated was the A300s it inherited from People Express, which did not please them at all...it only lasted a few years in the fleet. They are loyal to Boeing, and I predict that they are likely to buy the 777-200LR, because it offers only the GE-90, the engine Continental happened to select, and they also will probably order the 777 b/c they offer either GE or RR, engines Continental is likely to prefer either way, considering that they prefer GE and RR over the PW engines.
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FlySSC
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:54 am

I hope that it will never happen. CO = Boeing

SJU767, what is this ? the Space Shuttle ???


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Most of CO's A300 came from Eastern Airlines.

Thrust, People Express NEVER operated any A300...

 
DIA
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:55 am

Not anytime soon. . .there is no need. And with the 7E7 on the way. . .Continental doesn't have much a/c shopping to do. Their route structure is served well by their current fleet types. I think the only Airbuses you'll see in their livery are the A300s in the database. . .unless Continental merges with or purchases another carrier that currently flies Airbuses. Then it's a whole different ballgame. . .just like the way they got their last Airbuses (from Eastern).
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:28 am

Its Ok, Randy, I just wanted to hear everybody else's thoughts on this. Personally, CO would not look good on an Airbus. Not as good as Frontier does.
Puhdiddle
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:02 am

Well, why did CO retire its AB3s in the mid 90's...

The Airbus A300-RB4's had performance issues (high altitude airports) and were in relatively poor shape and getting old by the time they were taken out of the fleet (early 1990's).



While the latter may have contributed more or less... the primary reason for CO divesting those aircraft was the combination of their high capacity and stratospheric (non-negotiable) lease rates.

After running the planes in various different market/operation types, CO figured that their business model simply support the profitable operation of that type.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
ckfred
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:15 am

I thought that CO, as well as DL and AA, had long-term contracts that gave them the right to buy a fixed number of airplanes at specific prices. AA's contract is for 20 years, starting in 1997 or 1998.

Considering that CO has been delaying deliveries, it has a number of production slots over the next 10 to 15 years. So, why would it go to Airbus.
 
Horus
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:22 am

ckfred, I heard the same thing about the 20 year contract. Apparently that's why Boeing developed the 764 to meet CO and DL's requirements for such an aircraft instead of going for the A330.
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solnabo
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:32 am

Love to see some buses in CO fleet, A332-3/ 32X for instance.
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NIKV69
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:45 am

Being a FF of CO I do not want to see any Airbus AC in their fleet. There is no need for it. They are an all Boeing fleet and CO Express has ERJs. Why bother?
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:51 am

I thought that CO, as well as DL and AA, had long-term contracts that gave them the right to buy a fixed number of airplanes at specific prices. AA's contract is for 20 years, starting in 1997 or 1998.

ckfred, I heard the same thing about the 20 year contract.



Actually, those formal contracts were *abolished* in 1997... the EC demanded that they go as a prerequisite to Boeing's merger with McDD.

There's still informal wink-nod agreements between Boeing and DL/AA/CO, but nothing legally binding.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:16 am

CO is still taking brand new 737NGs and they are a newer product than Airbus. Maybe they would take Airbus 20 years down the road when they are ready to retire their 737NGs and Airbus's A320 replacement is going up against the 797 or whatever they will call the 737 replacement.
 
SJU767
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:22 am

FLYSSC:

" I hope that it will never happen. CO = Boeing "

"SJU767, what is this ? the Space Shuttle ???"

I meant now days, it is well known they had airbus in the past, however right now is mostly Boeing.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:30 am

SJU767, I know you knew...!!!! that was just a joke !  Wink/being sarcastic

But I don't CO was THAT unpleased by their A300...
 
Iberia340600
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:38 am

It just would not make sense for Continental to go with Airbus with an all Boeing fleet...it was just add huge maintenance expenses to their budget which no airline is willing to do at this time.
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iowa744fan
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:44 am

ConcordeBoy,

In regards to your post about the removal of the "Sole Provider" title for American, Delta, and Continental, do they still have any sorts of agreements among them? I remember that the EU demanded this prior to the McDonnell Douglas take over, but I thought that some like AA have the clause about they must buy aircraft from Boeing unless over a certain weight (the whole thing that allows them to buy the 345 instead of the 773ER). Can you tell me if any of these three still has something like that? Thanks.

Also, I have enjoyed reading your comments for a while and joined largely as a result!
 
F4N
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:08 am

To all:

While it is not likely that CO will order Airbus a/c any time in the near to mid-term future, to suggest that they will never order Airbus is ludicrous to say the least. Given that most orders for a/c in the 100+ seat category for the forseable future will go to A or B( although yes, I know the RJ makers are nibbling), the probability that Airbus will field something CO will like is very high,
so I guess it would be realistic to answer, yes, someday they will order from A.
If for some reason you feel the need to doubt, look at all the 744's and 777's
AirFrance seems very happy to buy from B & fly in A's backyard. You can't get much closer to Tolouse than that.

Buy whatever makes the most sense.

Happy Easter all.

regards,

F4N
 
AA737-823
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RE: Dfwrevolution

Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:10 am

DFWRevolution:
hello my hometown brother.
I stand behind my statement that Airbus invented commonality. While you are correct in saying that the 737 was somewhat similar to the 727 (except for the whole three-man versus two man thing- how common is that?) and that the 757 and 767 share a cockpit, Boeing's strength in cockpit commonality ends there.
The 737 is one family.
The 757/767 is another family.
The 777 has nothing to do with either of them.
The 747 has nothing to do with the three.
The 717 is - horrors- Douglas designed.
We'll see about the 7E7.

Now compare Airbus, who builds A320s, A330s, and A340s- all the same cockpit.

Airbus wins hands-down.

I am not an Airbus fan, but I think Boeing would stand a lot to gain by making the cockpits all common- the 737NG with the 777 and 7E7.

BR715- I was, of course, only joking about the shame and heresy.
And in my mind, FLYSSC, I think the CURRENT Continental (since that is who we are talking about- current and future Conti) is = Boeing buyer. The MD-80 is officially, if not enthusiastically, considered a Boeing. Their fleet, now, is ALL Boeing.

Cheers and a happy Easter to all!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:17 am

Airbus wins hands-down.

I am not an Airbus fan, but I think Boeing would stand a lot to gain by making the cockpits all common- the 737NG with the 777 and 7E7.


I completly agree... but it kills me when peopl say Airbus "invented" commonality. IMO it's like saying Starbucks invented coffee. They perfected it, but hardly invinted it.  Smile

Happy G-Friday,
DFW
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:33 am

Making all the cockpits common will not magically decrease costs in a fleet as big as that of Continental. You can still only have pilots current on two types anyway.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Guest

RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:42 am

Well, why did CO retire its AB3s in the mid 90's...

Bethune says in his book "From Worst To First" the A300s had these disgusting lease rates on them leftover from the Lorenzo days thanks to Texas Air's (the previous owner of CO) bad credit. When Bethunes gang started running the numbers they found even if they put a butt in every seat on the A300s they could not make any money. So they negotiated a way to get rid of them.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:52 am

I´ve seen that 737NG has head-up-display!
Is it there for the crew not to fall asleep while flying the machine? *lol*
**Glad Påsk**

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Continental
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 9:37 am

Didn't Continental have A340s or A330s on order a long while back?? I could be getting it confused with another airline... Either way, since then they have comitted to an all Boeing fleet, and it will stay that way. Training is really easy as well. Once you're on the 757, doing to 767 is most likely very quick, and a jump up to the 777 wouldn't be hard. If they were to switch to the Airbus, they'd have to adjust to the side stick.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 9:44 am

I think it is critical for Boeing to get a CO order for the 7E7 in due course. While new aircraft, the CO 753/762/764 will age quickly as new 7E7/332 fleets are added by their competitors.

The 332 could in theory repl the 762/764 fleet if the price is right. That is the only (remote) Airbus oppy I see at CO.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Thrust
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 9:49 am

THAT'S RIGHT. Sorry I made an error. Those A300s were from Eastern, don't know why I thought of People Express. I don't why I said People Express. I knew it in the back of my mind, just couldn't dig it out.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
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yyz717
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 9:55 am

Didn't Continental have A340s or A330s on order a long while back??

Hmmm..yes, that rings a bell. I think it was a mix of the 333/343 placed around the same time as the original NW 333/343 order. Not sure whether a firm order or an LOI. Needless to say, the order/intent was cancelled in their last Chap 11 foray. I also recall a CO article in ATW about 10 years ago in which a C-level exec stated the A320 would likely also be ordered. Of course, fleet plans changed drastically for CO soon after.  Laugh out loud



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 10:33 am

Will Continental Order Airbus?

Will the Pope convert to Islam?

or did they have a specific problem with the Airbus?

Yes, the ones we had were pieces of crap.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 10:42 am

So why did CO flying this piece of crap?? No Boeings to satisfy CO´s need?
Jeeeeeehhhh

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Alpha 1
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 10:56 am

So why did CO flying this piece of crap??

Because Lorenzo got them for a song and a dance from Airbus. Frankie would have ordered all DC-3's had he gotten a good enough deal on them.
 
N276AASTT
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:08 pm

Continental has their bases pretty much covered with respect to their current routes/plane types. The only way I see them ordering a Airbus A340-500/600 series, would be if they suddenly had aspirations of expanding well into Asia, Australia, South Africa, or out to India. I don't think they have the intentions of being a "Global" airline with that kind of reach. I think they are doing a great job with what they have going on now. Why change it?
Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
 
warren747sp
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:27 pm

The Pilots and the Machanics had enough of the A360. Guess why the nickname when they had the A300-B4?
747SP
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:34 pm

ConcordeBoy,

In regards to your post about the removal of the "Sole Provider" title for American, Delta, and Continental, do they still have any sorts of agreements among them? I remember that the EU demanded this prior to the McDonnell Douglas take over, but I thought that some like AA have the clause about they must buy aircraft from Boeing unless over a certain weight (the whole thing that allows them to buy the 345 instead of the 773ER). Can you tell me if any of these three still has something like that? Thanks.


Um, not to come across as gratuitously hostile... but I answered just about each one of these questions five posts before you even asked them  Big grin



Also, I have enjoyed reading your comments for a while and joined largely as a result!

welcome to A.net  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



The only way I see them ordering a Airbus A340-500/600 series, would be if they suddenly had aspirations of expanding well into Asia, Australia, South Africa, or out to India

Out of curiousity... why exactly would they choose those aircraft when the 772LR/773ER share 99.9% commonality with the 772ERs they already operate, and they've been Boeing loyal for more than a decade....?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Guest

RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:26 pm

Brons: "Yes, I rode on one of these CO A300's in Aug of 1994 IAH-SFO; it was in poor condition and the AC was weak, making the plane uncomfortably warm in flight. After that flight I hated Airbus planes until I flew on an A332 in 2001. "
You should "hate" CO for it's bad maintenance!
 
Goldentail
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RE: Will Continental Order Airbus?

Sat Apr 10, 2004 6:24 pm

Being I have been here for years...Alpha 1's account of why we got rid of the AB3's is accurate. They were junk, and first generation commercial aircraft for Airbus. Bethune came on the scene, and he wanted an all Boeing fleet (MD80 & DC-10) being the exception at the time. He made no bones about it....go figure he had just come from his former V.P. position at Boeing. Those ties, enabled him to negotiate some incredible leasing deals with Boeing, paving the way for CO to get a jump on modernizing the fleet and establishing a fleet commonality which up to that point was truly a "Bastard" fleet that Uncle Frank & Texas Air has conjured up!

But I do not see in my position....any indications of even a remote interest on the horizon for Airbus.

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