MD11LuxuryLinr
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TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:19 am


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Before the flight 800 accident, TWA was starting to repaint their 741s and it seemed like they were planning to hang on to them for at least a few more years. From what I remember, TWA quickly retired the aging 741 fleet after the accident. If flight 800 never crashed, and TWA was still around in full form, would they still have the 741?
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
rthrbeflying86
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:22 am

I don't know...if you look around this site there are very few left (passenger, at least). Not even Northwest has them  Smile.
I'd rather be flying.
 
Air1727
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:22 am

Most likely, no. Even before flight 800, the 747s were already on a tentative retirement schedule. Reducing the fleet age was one of the number one priorities in planning as far back as 1997.
In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.
 
JOSS21
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:27 am

I would think that they would invest in a newer more cost effective product. They were getting a lot of heat (mostly press generated) about their aging fleet.
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:28 am

Ryan,
I too have noticed this. The only reasoning that I can come up with is the fact that the aircraft were due to be repainted and were to remain in the fleet a few years after doing so, however the TWA 800 incident somewhat accelerated their retirement from the fleet. Looking through the photos, there were only a handful of the -100 fleet that received the new colors. Most were reitred out in the stripe scheme.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
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yyz717
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:32 am

For some reason, TW painted just 1 741 and 1 L10 in the new scheme, both fairly shortly before retirement.

I always thought it was a PR exercise.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:33 am

.."They were getting a lot of heat (mostly press generated) about their aging fleet."...

That was one detail that just about every news organization made sure they 'shared' in every report about flt 800 right after it happened. The plane was only, what, 24 or 25 years old at the time of the accident? Aging? Yes.. Old? Not to people who know better, like the smarter aviation enthusiasts.  Big grin
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:38 am

Pity that everyone doesn't understand that though Ryan. I'll take a 1970's vintage 727 over a brand spanking new 737-800 any day of the week and if that 727 is properly maintained it's just as safe or if not safer than that -800. Old, smoky, and loud---that's the way it should be in my humble opinion. Shows how the media really has an effect on things---inaccurate portrayals (in regards to an aircrafts age) if you want my opinion.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:43 am

.."Old, smoky, and loud---that's the way it should be in my humble opinion"...

 Laugh out loud

Hey Bryan.. So when is your next trip? Hopefully, it's on a NW DC9!!  Big grin
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:46 am

Actually,
My next trip is in June and I'm throwing around the idea of flying HP PHL-LAS-PHX-SAN A319 *737-200* 757-200. Not many of the old stogie-bearers flying around anymore much to my chagrin.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:15 pm

TWA was actually planning to expand flights from JFK to Europe and add capacity (using more 747-100's) some of which were to be leased back from Tower Air.

The strategy was abandoned following TWA 800.

ContinentalEWR
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:09 pm

The whole problem with the media these days. They tell half the story, and from then on the majoritity of the public will believe that side and nothing but that side.

Example being the media going on and on about AC employees refusing to take cuts to save the airline while not saying a word about the management getting their millions which they dont deserve, which is making the employees look bad when all they are doing is standing their ground while the management tries to knock them down... Another Example is one old plane crashes and media makes it sound like all old planes are unsafe when really with the proper maintenance and a well trained crew a 20 year old slab of smoking metal can be just as good as what a brand new hunk of plastic will ever be...


CanadianNorth
What could possibly go wrong?
 
DETA737
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:24 pm

In May of 1995 TWA put out a proxy statement that covered their fleet plans until the end of 1997. Plans were to have 11 747s by the end of 1995, 9 by the end of 1996 and 8 by December of 1997. So their fleet was supposed to consist of 8 747s, 26 767s, 90 MD-80s, 32 727s and 58 DC-9s. At the beginning of 1996, the plans were revised. The 747 fleet was to consist of 13 747s by 1999. The two with the most cycles on them were to be retired and three used 742s were to be added. Also the 757s were arriving in 1997 with 15 in the fleet by year's end.

Finally on July 2, 1996 TWA said they would be leasing two 747-100s and one MD-83. Also the airline purchased one 747-200 and signed a letter of intent for a second. This was just before the crash of flight 800. At that time TWA seemed to be turning around. The STL hub was profitable the airline actually managed to make a profit the second quarter. At that time TWA still had a decent transatlantic schedule with flights to Athens, Barcelona, Cairo, Frankfurt, Lisbon, Madrid, Milan, Paris, Rome and Tel Aviv from JFK and London and Paris to St. Louis. Following the crash of flight 900 the 747s were retired by February of 1997 and Athens and Frankfurt were dropped.


Here's TWA's 747s at the time of flight 900 (July 19, 1996)

747-131s (originally delivered to TWA in 1970 and 1971) *= flight 900
N53110, N53116, N93104, N93107, N93108, N93109, N93119*

747-143 (ex Alitalia)
N128TW (leased from July of 1996 until September)

747-156 (ex Iberia acquired in 1980)
N133TW, N134TW

747-238 (ex Qantas leased in May of 1996)
N307TW

747-257B (ex Swissair)
N303TW

747-284B (ex Olympic Airways)
N305TW

The 747 disposed of before the crash of flight 900 was an ex-KLM 747-206B (N307TW). N93104 and N93105 were also supposed to leave the fleet by year's end.
 
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United_fan
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:25 pm

I didn't even know TWA painted thier 741's in new colors . I did , however , see the 1 L1011 that was painted in new colors in storage in LAS in '99 and then again in GSO in 2002. Probably beer cans by now  Sad.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
747400sp
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:40 am

I herd that TWA was looking to starting a STL-NRT route before flight 800. They was going to use 747 200 on this route. Some of these 747 200 was going to replace the 747 100 in there fleet. There was also a plan to replace there 747's and L1011's with A330's but that fell though before flight 800.
 
nomadic
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:53 am

Re: 747400sp

Acording to the TWA employee hotline at the time, the Company had been awarded the STL-NRT route and was looking at starting up sometime in 1997.

They also had A330's on order for quite some time but this was re-negotiated and replaced by a large order for 318s, which of course they were never able to take delivery.
 
747400sp
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:07 pm

Nomadic

Thank you for the information. I did not know they was awarded the route. It would have been interesting to see how that service turn out.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:13 pm

TWA was going to operate STL-NRT with a 767-200ER in an all (or nearly so) Trans World One configuration.


Steve/MSY
 
DETA737
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RE: TWA And The 741 Relationship

Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:27 pm

TWA applied for service to Japan on March 1, 1996. They applied for daily flights from St. Louis to Tokyo and 3 weekly flights from St. Louis to Osaka. The flights were to be flown with 747-200s. TWA finally recieved the route authority in 1998 though they could not get any landing slots at Narita making the route authority pointless. The service was supposed to be started with 767-200ERs that TWA was supposed to acquire. However, the service was then postponed and was supposed to be inaugurated no later than June 1, 1999. This deadline passed and TWA never ended up serving Tokyo.

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