propjock04
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:53 am

SWA International?

Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:24 pm

Okay, armchair ceos, here is a topic for you!

After reading another post and learning that Boeing said that an unexpected US carrier could place a launch order for the 7E7, I got to dreaming a bit. Could WN create a second airline which focuses exclusively on international flying to major destinations? Could SWA bring the same dramatic change to international flying that they did to domestic flying? Could it work if they treated it as a totally stand alone airline with its own fleet of 7E7s with their own pilots, rampers, FAs, dispatchers, ground service equipment etc...?

They could start service out of some of their major "hubs" that could draw international traffic from a major international player (i.e. UA, AA, US) such as LAX, OAK/SJC, BWI, PHL, etc.

Gimme your thoughts, positive and negative. I don't want to see this turn into a huge argument about how WN is so horrible...keep it sane and civil...have fun!

Michael

 
COAB767
Posts: 1313
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:32 pm

RE: SWA International?

Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:29 pm

WN is purely domestic not international. WN has no intentions of going international.
Continental Micronesia: "Fly With The Warmth Of Paradise"
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8659
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: SWA International?

Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:36 pm

After reading another post and learning that Boeing said that an unexpected US carrier could place a launch order for the 7E7

I think I was the one who said it, after reading a statement from Boeing as well as a discussion at a Yahoo! group. The consesus we came to was either ATA (supplement their 753 and replace their L1011), or CO for their decent financial status (but their 767s are relativly new). UA will need them eventually, but they are in no position to do so. AA will need a replacement eventually, but they are not in a great position either. Ditto for DL.

Could WN create a second airline which focuses exclusively on international flying to major destinations?

WN experimented with the 727 early on, and dumped it in favor of more 737s. I believe WN came very very close to ordering the 757, but Boeing would not finance the number of 57s that Herb wanted. So that was a no go as well. I'm hinting that while it seems ordering widebodies would be blasphamy at WN, Southwest has considered larger a/c in the past.

If WN ever did expand into wide-bodies, it would be with the 7E7. The rock-botton acquistion cost almost seems targeted at WN. The range seems great, with the ability to fly almost anywhere in the world with a single type (no ER none ER garbage) but an all or nearly all economy 7E7 would seat nearly 300. The 200 pax figure for the base model is given in a generous 3-class configuration.

It would require an extensive shake-up at WN (personell, pilots, mechanics, flight attendents, scheduling, Rapid Rewards, ext) to make any international work. Could it be done? Maybe, but I'd rather see a smaller fleet type or IFE first.

Regards,
DFW
 
erj
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 11:22 am

RE: SWA International?

Tue Apr 13, 2004 1:38 pm

I'm confident WN will stay out of the international arena. But... What about jetBlue? I wouldn't put it past them to do something unexpected like this.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1540
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: SWA International?

Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:52 am

Quote from Heb's Book Nuts..."You will never see our planes in Moscow or London" He goes on to say how internation fligts have poor turn around times because of Poor Airports set-up ATC ect..cant do a 20 Min turn at LHR ..or many US airports that WN doesn't fly to like DEN, JFK, SFO, ORD..Just too Congested..for the WN operation..Read Heb's book NUTS he explains everything quite well and in detail..
 
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jetjack74
Posts: 6607
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: SWA International?

Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:31 am

If B6 was to do something like that, I would say that would be the first of many nails in there coffin.
Made from jets!
 
ckfred
Posts: 4763
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: SWA International?

Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:32 pm

A friend of mine who flies for a legacy carrier has asked WN pilots riding in the jump seat about int'l service. WN has no interest in flying to Canada and Mexico, let alone trans-Atlantic.

The costs associated with starting service across either border are much higher than opening a new destination. Then, there is the exchange rate. WN doesn't fiddle with fares as often as the legacy carriers, so trying to fix fares in Canadian dollars or pesos or letting them vary with the US dollar also goes against the WN philosophy.

Would WN think about this the long-term future? I don't know. But it won't happen in the next few years.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: SWA International?

Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:55 pm

with the ability to fly almost anywhere in the world with a single type (no ER none ER garbage)

not quite sure where you got that idea from....
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
propjock04
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:53 am

RE: SWA International?

Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:17 pm

Thanks for the responses, people. But I may have not explained myself completely. I have also read "Nuts" and am a total WN fan. I am whole-heartedly aware that they have no desire to go international. I just wanted to dive into the "what if" arena; fantasize a bit if you want. Have fun with this post...be imaginative...

Michael

P.S.
ConcordeBoy,

What I believe DfwRevolution meant by this is that airlines aren't gonna have to wait for an ER version of the 7E7 airframe (i.e. 777). The baseline will have plenty of range to fly most routes.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8659
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: SWA International?

Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:29 pm

not quite sure where you got that idea from....

I meant-

What I believe DfwRevolution meant by this is that airlines aren't gonna have to wait for an ER version of the 7E7 airframe (i.e. 777). The baseline will have plenty of range to fly most routes.

Regarding range, 8500nm for a base level airframe (costing 100mil) is unprecedented! This is only a shade shorter than the A340-500 which everyone is currently hailing as the long-range champion of the world. From say LAX, an airline could serve all of Europe, all of Asia, all of South America, and a good portion of Africa with a single type.

WN would only want a single long-haul type, if it EVER wanted a long-haul type. The excellent performance, low acquistion cost, and promise of simple fleet planning would make the 7E7 seem like the best option. Not that it will ever happen, but I thought I should finish explaining myself.
 
COSPN
Posts: 1540
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: SWA International?

Wed Apr 14, 2004 4:05 pm

Propjock04,

OK for sceculation Canada only because US Customs and Boarder Protection is basd in Canada, so it is as close to a Domestic US Flite as possible..mabe Hamilton Ontario to PHL to link up with Canadian Low Cost Carriers ???

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