GARUDAROD
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Which Has A Greater Historical Significance?

Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:40 pm


Time to pull out your thinking caps.
Which plane do you think will have a greater historical significance in the archives of commercial transportation?
The B707, which brought jet travel into widespread existence thereby making global travel possible in the same day.
The B747, which brought jet travel available to the masses and made travel by air a possibility for more than the elite in life.
The A380, which will bring long distances and the ability to move large amounts
of people to the far corners of the globe on a non stop basis a common reality.

Please dont turn this into a A vs B battle. Im looking for your insight as to which is the greatest historical contributor in the modern day age of jet travel.
Feel free to add what other aircraft you believe has made historical contributions, put provide some thought into the matter, not just I like its
colors or something like that.
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airportugal310
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RE: Which Has A Greater Historical Significance?

Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:44 pm

My vote goes for the 707...it was really a big deal. Before that flying was only for the most priveleged...when it came out, forget that. Families could go places faster and farther.

I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
slider
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RE: Which Has A Greater Historical Significance?

Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:47 pm

Well, by definition, since the A380 doesn't exist yet, it would be way too premature to put it in any 'historical' context or speculate.

From a practical standpoint, the 707. But the 747 represents so much more than the aircraft itself. The whale was, and remains to some degree, a spectacle...a marvel, a feat of engineering and symbol of global travel and grandeur. It just seems more transcendent to me than does the 707.
 
FlyPIJets
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RE: Which Has A Greater Historical Significance?

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:03 am

You could certainly make a point with both the 707 and 747. Both play very important roles in a historical context. Although, I hate not giving the Comet its due. And the 737, A320 series and RJ's all have places. The A380 will have its place has well.

But, if you really want to narrow it down to number one on the list of signigficant aircraft, I would have to say the DC-3.

With the DC-3, airlines started earning profits carrying passengers. It was the first airliner produced in large numbers, it pioneered many routes and introduced many places to air travel all over the world.

Imagine a world without a 707 or 747 or RJ - those gaps would have been filled with other a/c. But I wonder where airlines would be today if there had been no DC-3.
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AUAE
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RE: Which Has A Greater Historical Significance?

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:21 am

My vote is the 747. My reasoning is that it stood alone in the mission it fulfilled for a long, long time. And I agree with Slider, it was much more of marvel.
Air transport is just a glorified bus operation. -Michael O'Leary, Ryanair's chief executive
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Which Has A Greater Historical Significance?

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:29 am

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Or in other words, how can you possibly decide?

Ah screw it, I'm going with the 747  Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
planemaker
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RE: Which Has A Greater Historical Significance?

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:45 am

But the 747 represents so much more than the aircraft itself. The whale was, and remains to some degree, a spectacle...a marvel, a feat of engineering...

After flying transcon or to Europe in a DC-7, believe me the 707 was a marvel and feat of engineering. The 747, while "big" was nothing extra special - size wise, the C-5 beat it out for the military airlift competition and Boeing's consolation was to turn their effort into a pax aircraft. BTW, there are still some 34 707-320s in service - over 40 years since first 707 flight.

But I wonder where airlines would be today if there had been no DC-3.

The DC-3, while significant, benefitted from the war enormously. There were so many war surplus C-47/DC-3s available after the war that you can argue that they stunted development of new commercial aircraft.

[Edited 2004-04-15 20:08:19]
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ssides
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RE: Which Has A Greater Historical Significance?

Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:42 am

Actually, I believe the 737 was more revolutionary than any of them. The 737 really brought jet travel to the masses like no other aircraft. Small to mid-size cities that could never justify a 707, let alone a 747, were boosted into the jet travel age by this aircraft. It also allowed airlines to offer more frequencies between cities, rather than jamming all the passengers on a daily DC-10. I know this is a pretty bold statement -- the range on the original 737s isn't that great, and of course we wouldn't have them without the 707. But I still think the 737 is probably the most versatile airliner, and I think it deserves a lot of credit.
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planemaker
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RE: Which Has A Greater Historical Significance?

Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:56 am

Small to mid-size cities that could never justify a 707

That is why they first built the 720 and then 727. But the 737??? Then the DC-9 would rank right along side it.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
GARUDAROD
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RE: Which Has A Greater Historical Significance?

Fri Apr 16, 2004 10:22 am

Good points so far, keep it up. If I may refute a few of the points.
A)The Comet. While the true first jet aircraft, I dont think its numbers
nor lack of longivity will ever be considered its historical contribution.
B) The DC-3. True this aircraft refined the Airline Industry as we know it,
but for the sake of discussion, this topic is in reference to the Jet age.
C) The B737. Now this is a good point. This aircraft brought air service
to many communities around the world, both big city and small and many
rural places where no other mode of transportation would be viable. In terms
of numbers, this is the number one seller of the jet age. But this aircraft as was mentioned, is a creation of both the B727 and the B707. The B707 in this
case is directly responsible for the lineage of the B737.

The B707 brought the world to the Jet Age. Airlines across the globe rushed
to order some type of jet aircraft to keep up. Like wise, when the B747
came to fruition, Airlines large and small around the world rushed to get their
name on the "Whale" or "Fat Albert". In terms of prestige, I dont think anything ever evoked more Nationalistic pride then when your home airline
operated a B747!
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phollingsworth
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RE: Which Has A Greater Historical Significance?

Fri Apr 16, 2004 10:55 am

From a jet-transport configuration standpoint, it goes to the 707 hands down. It was the first aircraft (367-80 and original 717 included) to posses a low, highly swept wing, with under-wing pod mounted engines. I know Boeing had done the B-47 and B-52 already, but the 707 brought these advancements to the civil side. In this way it was light years ahead of the Comet, which really didn't use the advantages that jet engines allowed. There were several other advancements that the 707 introduced that are still used today.

I always like to say, that there is only one real aircraft design alive today, and it is a Boeing design. Every current Boeing and Airbus is built off of this legacy. It will take a giant leap to get the next 707. The Concorde was one attempt but practically it wasn't successful, you still cannot close the business case on SSTs, I know I have tried. Maybe someone wild build a BWB, this could be the next step.

Pete

P.S. I am not giving the Caravelle its due as it spawned the tail engined jet aircraft sub-line. If you say the 737, you better give the 727 (triple slotted flaps) and DC-9 credit as they did the same thing and came out before.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Which Has A Greater Historical Significance?

Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:02 am

I would agree with the 707. It was made in pax and freighter forms, even made into the 1980's as a military specialty aircraft (AWCS). It was the first real, economicaly practical and large production large jet. It made the large propeller aircraft obsolete in a few years on long flights. It was able to span the Atlantic Ocean in 7 hours. It spurred competition, the most important being the DC-8 and in a more limited way the Convair. While the Comet was a landmark, it's failures and relatively small size didn't make it a really successful aircraft. The 747 is also a landmark, still being made in significant numbers, and changed the airline industry, but the 707 was first and paved the way for the 747.
While the A380 will be a landmark when it arrives, it will not be the same as the 707. I would suggest that as to Airbus, the A300 is really their historical landmark a/c, was the first large production a/c under their name, created a new class of a/c of medium/long range 2 engine, 2 asile widebody aircraft, led to the success of Airbus, with many still in service, a very able, safe and big seller.
 
ba97
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RE: Which Has A Greater Historical Significance?

Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:12 am

I will take the opposite look at things. While comments above pick critical points in a continual process-they represent the same line of design-only extended. Faster (prop to jet), larger (DC 3 to 380), farther.....

Each step was just a continuing process of evolution in travel. Each significant in the step process. But no different than the age of sail to the ocean liner to flying--searching for the fastest method from A to B. Significant is that the world broke the quest of the spectrum by chasing time/speed by turning against Concorde. The dream of going faster, better was stopped. Society said enough is enough for many reasons we all are aware of. Now all we do is the same we have done for 40 plus years. Travel in a tube at subsonic speeds but now you can do it with 50 to 500 people. All other planes are just variations on a theme. So...My vote is Concorde. It represents the endpoint.
there is economy class, business class, first class...then Concorde..pure class

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