sergy2k
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New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:31 am

 
portcolumbus
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:37 am

That's an excellent idea, and what many of us spotters have been preaching for years. We are extra eyes and ears around the airports, and it's great to see someone realizing that.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:54 am

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is exactly what we need. Finally, at least somebody has some brains.
Puhdiddle
 
dc-10 levo
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:23 am

"Aviation enthusiasts are watching the activities of the airport everyday and their legitimate interest can only be to our advantage. They may see someone they don't recognized as part of their community whose interest in the airport is not genuine."

About time someone actually realized that! Great news!  Big thumbs up

DC-10
 
kaitak
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:25 am

Great, so we scratch their backs (and pick up rubbish for them as well); what, if I may ask, do we get in return? Only BAA's back is being scratched here.

That said, it is a good idea. How does one get in contact with LAAS?
 
Sammyhostie
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:27 am

it will purely be an id card for you. so you will only be able to spot where you do now.


it takes workers airside at least 4 months to get an airside pass now, You would not believe how strict the guys at BAA are now. it takes 12 weeks just to get a basic disclosure certificate back now.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:29 am

Can also foreigners get the card?

Frederic
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:34 am

I actually proposed something like this on the John Kerry site, as something that the government should really look into. You can read my plan here, and comment if you like:


http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=16872&hl=
 
teahan
Posts: 4990
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:41 am

What next? Will spotters also have to start wearing some kind of symbol?

I don't like this move one bit. What about those spotters without ID cards, will those be harassed and/or asked to move along? What about those of us at BAA airports only for the day, weekend or afternoon?

Realistically, this is the BAA taking away, most definitely not ‘giving’. Reminds me of that recently installed ‘obervsation deck’ at LHR.






Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:46 am

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. This is a great idea and works well. If these things don't happen, police will start to shoot on sight soon.


BTW I emailed "Larry King Live" and proposed this as a topic with the following text:

This is a proposal for a topic. It's about perimeter security at airports.

As you know, there are several proposals in the works to tighten it further. These proposals are all pretty costly. Further, they alienate true aviation enthusiasts ("spotters") who sit around outside the fence and take pictures as part of their hobby. These spotters have often, in the past, reported suspicious or even dangerous activity to the police, thus helping law enforcement and tightening security at no cost.

My proposal is to air this topic in a program, with representatives from the spotter community, as well as federal and airport security officials.

For some more background info, I refer you to a thread on the Airliners.net message board: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1514466/ and a thread on the Senator John Kerry message board: http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=16872&hl=

The programs spoken about are in place at several large airports, including Vancouver.

I would be happy to assist in finding a few spotters.

Kind regards,



I propose that if you also want your views to be aired, you contact the show here:
http://edition.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/

[Edited 2004-04-15 18:56:57]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:55 am

On the face of it , it sounds great but the more I read it the more I get kind of a 'Orwellian' vibe from it. I can't put my finger on it, however it just feels a bit suspicious.

Oh well, if it works for those in the UK more power to them.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
teahan
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:58 am

@Starlionblue:

'This is a great idea and works well.'

Can you substantiate that?

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:01 am

Nope, just an opinion. Sorry, should have clarified that  Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
airbusfanyyz
Posts: 1410
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:08 am

Good for the BAA!
I along with a few others are working to have our organization's ID card recognized so our members can have trouble-free spotting around YYZ.
We're close to announcing more info very soon.
Keep an eye out at http://www.yyzspotter.com for more info in the coming weeks.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:14 am

AirbusfanYYZ. You'll have to forgive me for telling the Larry King show that YYZSpotter was in Vancouver.

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Embarrassment
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
aa61hvy
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:15 am

It's a good idea, but what is going to stop a terrorist from getting one of these ID cards?
Go big or go home
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:16 am

Nothing at all. But the other spotters might be able to wrestle him to the ground when he unpacks the Stinger from his backpack.

EDIT: Correction. The background check would help. After all, if he passes that, he can work airside at the airport anyway.

[Edited 2004-04-15 19:17:09]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Sammyhostie
Posts: 467
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:46 am

Starlion,

Spotters wont be able to go airside, and to transfer the passes to airside workwe with an airline still takes 9 weeks.

Believe me, ive been doing it for 4 years!

BAA are bastards.
 
voodoo
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:56 am

The LAAS article doesn't explain how one goes about applying for a card.

Its `an idea'.... but I am not sure I like the notion of some spotters who happen to be part of `an organization' suddenly feeling able to decide who is one of them and who should be open to harrassment by them or by the friendly neighbourhood coppers. The jury is still out on this one.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:06 am

Sammyhostie, I'm aware that they won't be able to go airside. However, if they have to do a version of the same background check as airside personnel I would feel reasonably confident to have the outside the perimeter fence with a camera.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
ben
Posts: 1369
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:04 am


BAA are bastards.


Correct.

BAA don't care about you. BAA don't care about anyone. BAA only care about making money. They are sly bastards.

I am not giving my details to anyone that I don't have to. They can take a running jump.

You have no more or less access, and no more or less rights if you have the card or not. Why would anyone want to get it? To feel like they are part of a 'brotherhood'? "We are all flighting the evil terrorists together! Here's my card to prove it." Everyone wants to be a hero.

BAA, the government, and anyone else it suits on any particular day are just playing us all for gullible, ignorant fools.

BAA are no different than the railways. A bunch of fat-cats who can't help to get rich. They're milking it dry, giving nothing back, and when/if something goes wrong (which is unlikely since with an absolute monopoly they can't not make money) they will all just retire to the Bahamas.
 
captaingomes
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:10 am

For those who think this will only benefit those with ID's, I don't believe that is the case. I too am involved with YYZSpotter, and our goal is not only to allow our members to spot without as many hassles, but also to promote spotting so that everyone can enjoy it. I truly believe that anyone will benefit from this, and it is not intended to be an elitist cult banishing the occasional spotter from enjoying their hobby.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
Skyguy
Posts: 467
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:38 am

I think its a brilliant idea. I was a frequent visitor to the spotters gallery on top of T2 several years ago, nothing like that here at JFK that I have found.

Finally getting some more perks and recognition, apart from that smoky smelly room they had for spotters and the below-average cafe on the T2 terrace.
"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
 
ben
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:44 am

I think its a brilliant idea. I was a frequent visitor to the spotters gallery on top of T2 several years ago, nothing like that here at JFK that I have found.

Thanks to BAA's misguided view of security, it's now closed. Forever.

Finally getting some more perks and recognition....

What 'perks' do you think you are getting? I didn't read any in the report.

...apart from that smoky smelly room they had for spotters and the below-average cafe on the T2 terrace.

Now there is no smoky smelly room, or any other shelter when you're standing beside a busy road. There is no below-average cafe. No cafe.

Please don't be happy that they are giving you squat. Oh yeah, no toilets either. It's squatting or a tree, unfortunately.
 
Skyguy
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:50 am

Ben: Hmm... I recall there being a glass-walled room on the terrace on top of T2 at LHR, there were toilets there and a small cafe. Has it all been shut down? On a Sunday you could find anything upto 50 regular spotters with cameras, radios etc. etc. spending time there. Perhaps other BAA managed airports do not have this but LHR T2 definitely did and to my knowledge still does. You can of course choose to go and try various car parks and other corners around LHR, but get anywhere near the fence and one of the police cars that patrol the perimeter road will shoo you away.

As for perks, I guess you are right, nothing there except they may not interrogate you so much if you do end up prowling around roads and spots where others normally don't go to and the BAA police find you.
"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
 
trident2e
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:52 am

What a stupid and completely unworkable idea. Heathrow gets hundreds, if not thousands, of day tripping spotterts each year from all over Europe. Now it seems if you're not recognised by the regulars you get reported to the anti-terrorist squad! A typical knee-jerk reaction that just hasn't been thought through.
 
ben
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:10 am

I recall there being a glass-walled room on the terrace on top of T2 at LHR, there were toilets there and a small cafe. Has it all been shut down?

Yes, it has been shut down. Quite a while ago.. and its not coming back. The whole roof garden, shop, cafe, everything is closed.
 
DABZF
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:17 am

If I'm not mistaken... you need a FCAA Photo ID in Helsinki to be allowed to take pictures around the airport - at least you need it if you are airside!

Any Finnish spotter there to prove me wrong???
I like driving backwards in the fog cause it doesn't remind me of anything - Chris Cornell
 
BN747
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:44 am

"For those who think this will only benefit those with ID's, I don't believe that is the case. I too am involved with YYZSpotter, and our goal is not only to allow our members to spot without as many hassles, but also to promote spotting so that everyone can enjoy it. I truly believe that anyone will benefit from this, and it is not intended to be an elitist cult banishing the occasional spotter from enjoying their hobby. "

Well stated Captaingomes and as Starlionblue said..don't look a gifted horse in the mouth.. this is as we say '...getting your foot in the door'. As much as many see BAA as Satan's spawn...this could very well be their way of gauging by the program's success...to determine weather or not to re-open the Queens Building Spectators deck. And as each of you sign up..be sure to serve notice how much of an insult that 'new deck' really is. I'll bet anything..that BAA security is behind the scene watching and using this program to measure enthusiasm and justify it's securty concerns (covering it's ass) vs reopening the original deck.


It is certainly better than the current 'Move along' approach...curse them, bitch them out...but take them up on their offer.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
jhooper
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:38 am

I don't think I like the idea, but it's certainly better than a 'no spotting allowed' rule.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
gkirk
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:32 pm

Can also foreigners get the card?
I would imagine that it would only be available for people that live in the UK, so probably no to your answer Im afraid Frederic  Sad
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
MD
Posts: 156
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:17 pm

DABZF,

nope, there's no need for any kind of an ID card for spotting..

-VR-
///
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:52 pm

From what I've read on BAA's website, I find the idea pretty cool.

Let's hope evryone will be pleased this time.

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
Delboy
Posts: 689
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:25 am

GKirk asked "Great, so we scratch their backs (and pick up rubbish for them as well); what, if I may ask, do we get in return?"

Well for a start you get the all singing, all dancing spotters trailer in the Visitor Centre caar park at LHR!!!!!!!! What more could you ask for.
 
kaitak
Posts: 8954
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:11 am

Actually, I asked that, Delboy!

I think, in fairness to BAA, it's a step in the right direction, but I think we are going to have to know a little more about this. How does one apply for it, etc.

Incidentally, I don't think it would be permissible under EU law to restrict it to UK nationals/residents.
 
ua935
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:41 am

RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:04 am

There is another thread about this up and running in the aviation photography forum with a link to the LAAS site.

What they don't tell you in the BAA article is that LAAS propose charging you £15 for this card.

Since when did you have to pay to stand on a public footpath or in a playing field?

Easy way for someone to become very rich by something which can't be enforced.
Live every second like you mean it
 
Delboy
Posts: 689
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RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:51 pm

Kaitak

I would hardly call what BAA has provided, a step, would you? Have you seen it in the flesh? I have and it's an absolute joke.
 
ben
Posts: 1369
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 1999 9:27 pm

RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:26 pm

Easy way for someone to become very rich by something which can't be enforced.

Exactly!! How can it be enforced??? So I don't have a 'spotter ID card' so what the hell can they do? Move me on from a public place?

The simple never-changing fact of this matter is that nobody can stop me from taking pictures of aircraft when I am in a public place. That is my god-given right. End of story.

You lot are being taken for a ride.
 
N754PR
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 10:03 pm

RE: New Baa 'spotter' Id Card

Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:56 pm

Ben,

Your spot on... unless your in the states. As you know you cant even talk to a US cop without being given a warning, they are right you are wrong end of story.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.

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