sanscott744
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CVG And Delta

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:32 am

I was wondering how profitable is CVG for Delta? I know Delta is having problems but I was curious to know this. Also are there any plans to offer service to Tokyo Narita in the future?
 
DeltaBoy777
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:07 pm

Delta is pleased with CVG, but would like better results for it's massive schedule. Delta has downsized quite a few routes out of CVG in order to reposition and utilize those planes in more profitable routes. I have heard rumors of flights to Tokyo, but don't know how true they are. Good post topic.

~DeltaBoy777~
Thanks and Gig Em!
 
rockyracoon
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:25 pm

CVG is doing well, certainly comair and aca have stepped in quite significantly, yet there is a strong amount of mainline flights. I doubt a NRT flight is in the cards, for one, they don't have enough 777's. They used to have a one stop via PDX o MD-11s. Hopefully once they finish lengthening 9/27 out another 2000 feet KE will start flying ICN-CVG. I recall runway length being said as an issue for KE. The runways are already long enough at 10,000, 10,000, and 11,000. Hopefully sometime in the future  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



peace
 
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mats
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:44 pm

I wouldn't anticipate CVG-NRT because Delta does not have the aircraft to operate the flight. Delta has cut its 777 fleet and that is the only aircraft in its fleet capable of the flight.

Furthermore, Delta has essentially withdrawn service from Asia. Although they once served Taipei, Hong Kong, Bangkok, and other destinations, Delta only serves Narita--they do not even fly to the SkyTeam hub at Seoul Inchon.
 
sanscott744
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:45 pm

CVG-Incheon would be great is Korean apart of Skyteam?
 
sanscott744
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:47 pm

That answers my question about skyteam
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:47 pm

CVG has been a very consisten hub for Delta. I agree that they need more 777 aircraft for Int'l routes, however their management thinks otherwise.

A little off topic, but CVG is a very nice airport, kinda reminds me of STL in a way for some odd reason.

-Delta767300ER
 
seatback
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:01 pm

Delta only offers 150 or so mainline flights aday--right? It's still no. 2 --with Comair's help.
 
ncflyer
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:57 pm

How can CVG for DL be any good with such lousy O&D that's what I've always wondered. So many times on this forum, people say xxxxxx won't make a good hub because it has lousy O&D and is not a good tourist destination. SOunds like CVG to a tee. I mean compare CVG to ORD, DFW, ATL, IAH, EWR, DEN, it's a wonder DL keeps adding some nice routes.

And yeah I know it's basically a CRJ hub, but those little aircraft are expensive to operate.

And something that would help CVG's O&D is if DL didn't charge such extravagant fares.
 
SESGDL
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:09 am

DL and Comair this summer will have 588 flights, so connecting traffic is definitely helping to keep the hub. All of the hubs have more connecting traffic than O&D. CVG's O&D is not that bad, and yields are excellent because of extremely high fares. DL also faces no competition, so that's a definite plus.

Jeremy
 
Alpha 1
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:43 am

It still amazes me, how relatively aggressive DL is with their CVG hub, and how passive CO is with what they do with their CLE hub. 588 flights at CVG, compared with about 270 in CLE for CO, and only about 35 of those mainline.

Then again, DL is hemmoraging money right now, and CO is doing "fairly" well, and not just adding flights for the sake of adding them in their hubs. CO right now is pretty judicious about adding flights at hubs.
 
UAORD
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:49 am

I can not think of another airport in the US that is so dominated by one airline. DL has a lock on CVG and charges ridiculous prices due to their "monopoly"


A typical flight from CVG to SFO even with 7-days notice and a Saturday night stay is around $1,500. If you drive up to Dayton (60 miles) and connect back via CVG the price goes down to about $300. More than 3/4 the cars parked in Dayton are from Cincinnati.


I would love to see what would happen if Southwest could get into the Cincy market. Delta was able to knockout Vanguard but doubt they could do the same to Southwest.

 
sanscott744
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:05 am

It would be a shame to see southwest go into CVG living in San Diego I can tell you that it stinks to see 1 out of 3 planes a 737
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:05 am

I agree that they need more 777 aircraft for Int'l routes, however their management thinks otherwise.

No they don't... they just realize that 772ERs don't grow on trees. Keep in mind that DL originally hoped to secure 30+ of the birds at one point.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
sanscott744
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:21 am

Last I counted Delta mainline is 164 out of CVG and Comair is 421.
585 daily departures total
 
UAORD
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:22 am

I believe Delta had to give back some 777 and did not exercise options on other 777 due to massive troubles with the pilots union.
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:27 am


DL has not "given back" any 777. They have sold the 2 that were to be delivered in 2005 and are working with Boeing to either acquire different planes for the 777s scheduled for delivery after that or they will possibly try to sell those also.

 
UAORD
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:37 am

Attached below is a summary of an article from Wing Tips, the link is listed after the article:



Delta also announced that it would defer delivery of some Boeing 777 aircraft because of continued labor strains related to 777 work rules. Instead, Delta will negotiate for delivery of 4 767-ERs.


According to our sources, Delta management opened negotiations with its pilots with an offer that topped AMR's American Airlines 777 pay rate. The intent was to offer the best pay package in the industry. The union responded with an offer that was more than $100 more per hour, along with additional work rule demands. Jenson said yesterday if the airline were to agree to the package that the union had proposed, their costs of flying the 777 would double.


Bottom line? The airline decided that rather than put itself in a confrontational situation with the pilots over aircraft that the union had said would then be parked if no agreement were reached, the airline opted for the alternative aircraft.


http://www.planebusiness.com/tscolumns/ts041699.html

 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:02 am

I can not think of another airport in the US that is so dominated by one airline.

There are plenty.

The most notable (for any airport exceeding 1m pax/yr) is WN at DAL, with nearly 96% of the market (seatwise).
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:36 am

"I can not think of another airport in the US that is so dominated by one airline"


An interesting one is MLB where Delta has 100% of the market without receiving any subsidies from the airport or government. Of course that airport only has about 250,000 pax/year if that.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
COSPN
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:46 am

Yes WN at DAL but at Low Cost, and DFW is next door..There are Drive in PAX at IND lots of Ohio Plates in Indy's long term lot with PAX on WN and ATA
 
syncmaster
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:06 pm

It's not dominated by one airline, but ORD has to be up there with UA and AA. Not to mention NW with MSP and DTW, plus IAH and EWR with CO. DL, NW, and CO sure do share more then flight codes!  Big thumbs up
 
iflyatldl
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RE: CVG And Delta

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:31 pm

It's hard to dispute DL was a shot in the arm for CVG. It's O&D might be dissapointing, however the connection possibilites abound. It was a stroke of genius for DL to establish CVG as a hub. And with the Delta Connection Comair, it has brought servive in the Mid-West and upper southern regions that pprobably wouldn't even have commercial air as an oppption. Not to mention what DL has brought to the TRI-State area in jobs and revenue. Delta will be a key player in the Greater Cincinnati area economy for years to come unless the unthinkable happens.  Big grin
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
Ezra
Posts: 474
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 8:21 am

RE: CVG And Delta

Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:27 am

What's the story of DL's opening a hub in CVG? When was it established? Were there any other cities considered? How/why did they choose CVG?
 
iflyatldl
Posts: 1796
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:41 am

RE: CVG And Delta

Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:34 am

DL was looking to open a hub in the Mid-West and the Greater Cincinnati area offered a lot of attributes DL was looking for, including economic and geographic qualities. At that time CVG was somewhat under-served and DL saw the economic potential.  Smile
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
cba
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RE: CVG And Delta

Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:55 am

CVG is truly a very nice airport. It provides an excellent alternative to ORD and DTW for a connection point for east-west flights. CVG is less crowded, and connections are generally much easier than they would be on AA or UA in ORD, or NW in DTW. CVG has also heavily benefeited from the invention of the Regional Jet and the DL takeover of Comair (which was an independent regional airline in the early to mid nineties). However, it sometimes gets frustrating to see 2-3 hour flights that were normally served by mainline aircraft to be served by regional aircraft.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: CVG And Delta

Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:17 am

DL was looking to open a hub in the Mid-West and the Greater Cincinnati area offered a lot of attributes DL was looking for..

From my understanding, they first offered it to CLE in the mid to late 70's, as UA was pulling out of there, to concentrate on ORD. But CLE officials, in their infinate insanity, and infinate arrogance that UA would come running back to them, turned DL down.

It wasn't for another decade that CLE got another offer for a hub to be established, in 1987, from CO.
 
slider
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RE: CVG And Delta

Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:03 am

From my understanding, they first offered it to CLE in the mid to late 70's, as UA was pulling out of there, to concentrate on ORD. But CLE officials, in their infinate insanity, and infinate arrogance that UA would come running back to them, turned DL down.

DL also approached IND, and there were in fact tentative plans to extend what it presently Terminal A out some to include additional gates. The city of Indpls didn't want to take on the added debt burden, and this was before BAA came to manage the airport. Hindsight's 20/20, but while IND is an attractive market, it's closer proximity to DTW would have been difficult for DL.

CVG is by and large a transfer hub, with vast majority of its traffic being xfer and not O&D. Perhaps someone could provide latest stats if they have it, but I believe it was well over 65% last time I checked.

The new AMS service will be interesting to watch as well.


 
Ezra
Posts: 474
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 8:21 am

RE: CVG And Delta

Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:09 am

Did DL's decision to go with CVG have anything to do with the fact that CVG, while definitely in the midwest, is east (and central) enough that it works for Northeast/Southeast connections as well as East/West connections -- thereby taking some pressure off ATL?
 
LambertMan
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RE: CVG And Delta

Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:28 am

Well, you say that it is well over 65%. I figure...

Around 20-22 million pax a year thru CVG
About 5 million o/d pax

At the minimum it has to be 75% connecting traffic.

[Edited 2004-04-18 21:29:06]