nycfuturepilot
Posts: 773
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:50 am

Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:53 am

I assume that El AL has a lot of orthodox jewish pilots so I was wondering if they fly on the sabboth and on religious holidays. Also, can one get bread on it during passover?
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
WindowSeat
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:01 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:05 pm



El Al does not fly on Saturday.

cheers



I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
tbear815
Posts: 689
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:10 pm

I have flown El Al during Passover and Matzoh was all that was offered.
 
nycfuturepilot
Posts: 773
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:50 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:30 pm

Thanks, I wasnt sure.
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:52 pm

EL AL does not operate passenger flights from sundown Friday thru sundown on Saturday. Cargo flights however still operate.

EL AL has attempted to get the restriction lifted, however the Israeli Parliament never seems to be able approve as a result of right wing conservative members objecting.

Overall EL AL is at a competitive disadvantage by being only able to operate 6 days per week, while its foreign competition operate to/from Israel on daily basis without any restrictions.

From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
4X-ELD
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 1999 9:19 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:27 pm

While never talked with any pilot about their religion practice I failed to see any orthodox pilot working for ELAL (I didn’t see any one wearing a Kipa for that matters)/
Among cabin crew there are few who keep the shabat (few out of hundreds) these FA
Are not schedule to work on Shabbat on a permanent basis according to their requests (similar to mothers to new born who does only short flights or students who can ask for days off for their studies)

Regarding the Passover….food on ELAL is kosher (no pork, no mixing of milk and meat)
During that holiday there is a regular food service on all flights , bread and pastry is not been served

 
4xRuv
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:07 pm

Just to add to Laxint,
El Al do fly cargo flights on Saturdays, AND they also operate their charter "Sun D'or". Though it's not officially an EL Al flight, the crew is EL AL crew, and some of the planes carry the EL AL c/s....
 
Delta767300ER
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:12 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:51 pm

That is very interesting. During the Jewish Holy Days is their possibly a prayer over the intercom?

-Delta767300ER
 
Cory6188
Posts: 2609
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:52 pm

CO's flights from EWR-TLV-EWR on Saturdays are the only flights to arrive and leave from TLV airport in the whole 24 hour Sat-Sun period.
 
JFKviaPHX
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:31 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:58 pm

Let's set the record straight with the EL Al question about Saturdays. Yes they do operate on Saturdays, however it's a late night flight to give everyone time to plug in the power cords and start the cars. They usually leave JFK at around 11pm on Saturday nights. The planes or planes will land during the morning at JFK on Friday and sit on a hardstand with security untill Saturday night.
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5005
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:11 pm

Remind me never to fly ElAl.......if religion is to rule the company I wont fly with them!!! Tragic
Nuf said  Angry

Michael//SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
thegreatchecko
Posts: 689
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:34 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:17 pm

Solnabo,

You forget Israel is a predominently Jewish country (I'm talking about Israel proper, not the West Bank, etc.). I dont know how it could be considered "tragic" that they follow what they believe in.  Insane

Yeah it might put El Al at a competitive disadvantage, but they can do what they want. I have no problem with it.

GreatChecko
"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
 
alonk
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:18 pm

Cory6188

CO isnt the only airline that flies out of telaviv during SAT/SUN...BA LX AZ KLM CY LOT and many other european airlines fly into and out of TLV as well as Air Canada and lots of Israeli and Turkish and spanish charters..
 Smile
 
nycfuturepilot
Posts: 773
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:50 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:30 pm

Solnabo, though I have never flown them I think that if you were travelling to Israel then you'd probably be going there because of the religious experience and if you were to take EL AL there then you would probably get a better feel for the israeli culture.
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
zrs70
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:05 am

Solnabo,

They don't deliver mail here in the US on Sundays because it is "the Lord's day." I guess that means I should not live here anymore!
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5005
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:13 am

What I´m saying is there is something wrong when you´re carrier has to "be grounded" cuz of sabboth or for any other reason (religous), than western-carriers should stop flying cuz of Eastern/X-mas etc. you name it....
Okey, they can fly with another carrier if the must go on a saturday, but to my ear it sounds strange! Maybe its b´cuz I live in €urope, and swedes are not that religious. I have nothing against Israel, but I wont go there in this troubled time.....
Salom

Michael//SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
4xRuv
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:20 am

LOL

No there's no praying over the Intercom on El Al flights,
HOWEVER, there is on the audio system a religious channel, and, especially on flights to/from NYC, you can see sometimes an unofficial prayer conducted by religious people.
It's a bit ridiculous, because unlike other European countries where EVERYTHING is closed during Sundays, in Israel you can always find whatever you want and whenever you want it. So religion people don't control everything around here....
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5005
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:24 am

X-use moi 4xruv, but EVERYTHING is open on sundays here too  Laugh out loud
Pleased to say.........
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
4xRuv
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:31 am

Well then,
Sweden is an exception...
I would insert it to my destinations queue...  Big grin
 
sw733
Posts: 5298
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:32 am

Wow Solnabo I cannot even believe what you are saying. That is absolutely terrible. You are saying a religion is wrong because it is different then yours?

Anyways, my question is this - if part of not flying on friday - saturday is because it is a day of rest and there is supposed to be no work, why is it that the Israeli government lets other airlines fly to TLV then and thus make the other airport employees work?
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5005
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:50 am

I rest my case, cuz you dont understand what I´m saying.........watta pitty!

Michael//SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
canberra
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:32 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:04 am

CO's flights from EWR-TLV-EWR on Saturdays are the only flights to arrive and leave from TLV airport in the whole 24 hour Sat-Sun period.

Cory6188, you couldn't be more wrong. First of all, even though I am not Jewish, I believe Sabbath is from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. That mean lots of El Al departures Saturday evening (today 8 LY flights out of Tel Aviv before midnight). Sunday is a very normal day. Secondly many of others carriers fly their normal schedule on Sabbath. During summer (at least last year) Saturdays seem to be quite popular for charters from the CIS countries.

Back to the topic. As already mentioned El Al doesn't fly in Sabbath, at least not as El Al. But!!! I have seen planes from El Al's normal fleet fly on both Israir and Sun d'or routes in Sabbath.

All the best, Michael



[Edited 2004-04-17 18:10:22]
It takes courage to push things forward . . (Mo Mowlam)
 
zrs70
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:08 am

Point of information:

Sabbath is not sundown to sundown. It is sundown Friday to fully dark Saturday (defined as three stars in the sky). It's more like 27 hours than 24!
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
bullpitt
Posts: 757
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:09 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:36 am

Sonalbo I don't care much for religious fanatics of any kind. But pls remember that in some countries Christians have also been very intolerant. Back in the 40 and 50 in Spain you could be reported to police by the local priest if you were working the fields on Sunday.

With regards to the thread IB fly to TLV on Saturday.
These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
 
airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:31 am

And people call Muslims fanatics.

4xRUV "because unlike other European countries where EVERYTHING is closed during Sundays, in Israel you can always find whatever you want and whenever you want...."

Israel is not a European country as much as you may wish it were.
.....up there with the best!
 
csavel
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:41 am

How does it work with delays and also differing sunup-sundown times? For example, I'm assuming that they use local times to decide on the sabbath. So a Saturday night flight out of Stockholm would have to be scheduled later and later until June? And what if a flight is scheduled to land at JFK on Friday, and there are mechanical or other difficulties that would make it land in JFK after Sundown? Are you shit out of luck?

I once spoke to my cousin (from Ashdod) who said that theoretically, you are not allowed to work on the Sabbath unless you are not Jewish, whether or not you are religious, and whether or not you want to. I also read the same thing in a book about the conflict between secular and religious in Israel (Interesting book, but I can't remember the title or author. It was written by a Dutch woman, I know that.)
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15202
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:43 am

"Wow Solnabo I cannot even believe what you are saying. That is absolutely terrible. You are saying a religion is wrong because it is different then yours?
"

LOL no he's just saying its a retarded way to run a business.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
andahuailas
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:32 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:02 am

It may be a retarded way to run a business, but for those of us who are believers, respecting religious law is more important than bussiness.

Solnabo's comments are intolerant and ignorant of religious law
 
4xRuv
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:14 am

Csavel
theoretically, it's correct, according to the law, you are not allowed to work on Saturday, however, airport employees are declared as "vital employees" (same as medical staff) and so they are allowed to work. El Al doesn't operate on Saturday not because of this particular law.

Regarding the Sabbath problem, I think it's treated locally. For example, LY flight bkk-tlv depart at 12-1 am on Saturday night local time, though in Israel it's still Sabbath.
Some of the flights arriving to Tel Aviv on Fridays (especially on winter time) arrive just before the sun is down. As far as I know, flight would not leave if it's delayed and land after the Sabbath, But I heard some captains decided to still fly on Sabbath (think about it - if there's a delay, it delays both the current passengers for at least 24 hours, and it also delays the flight supposed to be carried on the aircraft on Saturday night)
 
Guest

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:14 am

Great Checko: "Yeah it might put El Al at a competitive disadvantage, but they can do what they want. I have no problem with it."

Checko, they are forced not to fly. Forced by religious people. Also non-religious people in Israel can't do what they want on sabbath.
You think that a company that tries to get money, doesn't want to fly???
 
LFutia
Posts: 3155
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 11:04 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:16 am

I also agree. Solnabo's comments were not appropriate and uncalled for. EL AL has every right to decide what it can do and cant. They are well known for their security. and besides. Sunday is the Christian's worshipping day and Saturday is the day for the Jewish...
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12359
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:53 am

From my understanding, Isreal pretty much closes down on the weekly sabbath (Sundown Friday to fully dark on Saturday). This includes not only ElAl, the government controlled airline, but also all government offices (unless emergencies), all public bus services, all schools and almost all stores, shops & resturants, unless owned by a non-jewish person. Some stores are operated on the kibbutz farms due to some farm exemption on work on the Sabbath day. The miltary, security and Mossad are of course exempt from the sabbath rule, although some adjustments made.
 
4xRuv
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:21 am

Ltbewr

That's almost correct, however, restaurants, theaters, cinemas, pubs, clubs, disco's the beach etc... are open (and very crowded), and very big shopping centers are open on Saturday as well (and not only ones that are owned by non Jewish persons).

But isn't it the same in the US? Do schools/universities, or government offices work on Sundays?
 
sw733
Posts: 5298
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:07 am

Nope, most stuff is closed on Sundays here
 
adriaticflight
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:43 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:36 am

"unlike other European countries where EVERYTHING is closed during Sundays, in Israel you can always find whatever you want and whenever you want it."

Forgive me but Israel has never been and will never be considered a European country. Europe stops with Turkey and Russia!

On the business of EL Al not flying on a saturday, it seems arather 'outdated' but if thats what they wish to do I think it is fine, if religion becomes a less important feature of Israeli life (which I believe would benefit the place greatly) then El Al I am sure would start saturday services. Don't forget that in Scotland there was uproar when BA started flights to very traditional communities on the Scottish islands
 
todaReisinger
Posts: 902
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2001 4:19 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:10 am

why is it that the Israeli government lets other airlines fly to TLV then and thus make the other airport employees work?


It wouldn't be possible to shut down the airport one day a week; the airport is closed one day in the year: on Yom Kippur.

BTW, there are now legal litigations regarding the shops and restaurants which will be located in the new terminal.....These facilities will have to be open on Saturdays, and religious business owners are complaining of being discriminated against......



* * * * * * * * *



It is not El Al's decision not to fly on Shabbat....the decision was taken in the early 1980s and was part of a coalition agreement between PM Menachem Begin's party and religious parties.....Since then, it has never been changed; but with the ongoing privatization of El Al, this will be history very soon.


According to the regulations, if a flight is delayed and couldn't arrive to its destination before the beginning of the Shabbat anymore, it must be cancelled......
One of the flights out of New York after the 9-11 attacks landed in TLV on Friday afternoon after the beginning of Shabbat, causing some bitter reactions form some religious circles.....


El Al Cargo flights are operating on Shabbat (it's indicated in the El Al schedule.....), as well as charter flights under the name Sun d'Or.



* * * * * * * * *





And people call Muslims fanatics.


...? well well...



Israel is not a European country as much as you may wish it were.


It is, in a way, a European country.

Mainly thanks to its neighbors' behaviour...

BTW, the Hapoel Jerusalem has just won the ULEB Cup!

http://www.euroleague.net/ulebcup/index.jsp

I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
4xRuv
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:25 am

grrr...
I never said Israel is a part of Europe......I only replied Solnabo who IS European (lucky him, and you of course)

 
kl911
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:36 am

'''And people call Muslims fanatics.'''

??????????????? Ehhhh Yeah...... Isn't that true? It is in my city.....
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15202
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:46 am

"It may be a retarded way to run a business, but for those of us who are believers, respecting religious law is more important than business.

"

Of course, until you run out of money for said business....then what?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
4xRuv
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

RE: Does El Al Fly On Saturday's And Holidays?

Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:56 am

If I were you I wouldn't worry for El Al business,
El Al get a special budget from the government as a compensation for not flying on Sabbath, even though they are owned (at lease until June) by the government.

Who is online