airbus340313x
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AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:56 am

Transmitted by Canada NewsWire on : April 19, 2004 11:30
Air Canada to Launch Non-Stop Service from Toronto to Hong Kong with A340-500 Aircraft, World's Longest Range Airliner Features Lie-Flat Seats and State-of-the-art Entertainment

MONTREAL, April 19 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada today announced the introduction of first-ever non-stop service from Toronto to Hong Kong with the delivery of its first A340-500 aircraft, the world's longest range airliner. Effective August 1, 2004, the new daily non-stop service with a flight time of 15.5 hours will link eastern North America and southeast Asia with convenient daily flights that will save travellers more than four and a half hours compared to other carriers' best routings.

Concurrent with the start-up of its new service, Air Canada is introducing exciting new inflight amenities for customers in both Executive First and Hospitality Service cabins configured to seat 42 and 225 passengers, respectively. The airline is significantly enhancing its premium international product, Executive First, with the introduction of industry leading lie-flat seats on its new A340-500 service to Hong Kong. Combined with a generous 63 inch pitch, the ultra-luxurious seats recline to a flat 180 degrees and
provide the ultimate experience in restful long haul flying. The carrier's Executive First seats also feature adjustable privacy dividers, stowage areas, individual reading lights, lumbar support system and personal large screen monitor offering video on demand.

In addition, Air Canada's Hospitality Service customers will enjoy, for the first time, individually controlled video on demand with personal monitors at each seat for a state-of-the-art inflight entertainment experience using a fully digital audio and video system. The Hospitality Service cabin features fully adjustable seats and headrests in a spacious 2x4x2 layout with 33-inch pitch providing more legroom than other carriers. "We are very excited to offer travellers the fastest, most convenient air service between Toronto and Hong Kong with the first-ever non-stop service," said Montie Brewer, Executive Vice President, Commercial. "With the introduction of the new Airbus A340-500 aircraft in our fleet, Air Canada customers will enjoy state of-the-art entertainment, the most spacious cabin and a further enhancement to our premium Executive First product with the introduction of lie-flat seats. Following on the opening of a brand new air terminal at our Toronto hub only days ago, we are focused on strengthening our international network to offer our customers superior value, choice and the best schedule to meet their needs from coast to coast, and around the world."

Air Canada's new daily non-stop flights from Toronto to Hong Kong complement its daily Vancouver-Hong Kong flights by offering customers the choice and flexibility of two daily flights linking both western and eastern Canada with one of Asia's most important business centres and gateway to southeast Asia. With a 0945 departure from Toronto, flight AC015 is timed to offer convenient morning connections to and from points throughout Air Canada's extensive North American network, particularly in stern Canada and the United States. The early afternoon arrival in Hong Kong at 1315 the next day ensures connecting options for onward travel throughout Asia. The eastbound flight, AC016, leaves Hong Kong at 1515 and arrives in Toronto at 1835 the same day, providing maximum connecting options.

Air Canada will take delivery of two Airbus A340-500 aircraft this summer following successful negotiations with the Air Canada Pilots Association (ACPA) to facilitate the expedited introduction of the ultra long range aircraft to Air Canada's fleet. Air Canada has been operating daily non-stop service eastbound from Hong Kong to Toronto since December 1, 2003 using Airbus A340-300 aircraft.

Air Canada offers customers up to 12 non-stop flights per day in each direction between Canada and nine destinations in Asia. From its main hub in Toronto, the carrier operates daily non-stop flights to Hong Kong, Tokyo and Delhi, the only non-stop link between North America and India. From its Pacific Asian gateway in Vancouver, Air Canada serves Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing, Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya and Seoul with daily non-stop flights, as well as Taipei on a codeshare basis.

 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:01 am

Took them long enough.

Though it's absolutely nothing to get excited over-- would be interesting to see what/how they do with this.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
captaingomes
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:02 am

Nice stuff, hope it lasts. I wonder what CX's response will be.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:11 am

How profitable will this route be (not in terms of pax). Will AC be able to generate any profit on this route with pax, but without cargo because of weight restrictions. Its well known that cargo is a good revenue generator for AC (hence YYZ-FRA) route with the Combis. But without the ability to carry cargo and weight restrictions due to fuel and pax, will the route be profitable?

I question how prudent this decision is - albeit well-known since Jan/Feb - since the company has had to re-lease all of its aircraft (aside from the three/four (?) they own) in an attempt to restructure. Acquiring new aircraft, training and crew seems to go in the opposite direction of attempting to cut costs. Oh well...more assets for creditors if/when AC liquidates.

[Edited 2004-04-19 22:13:11]
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:16 am

YVRtoYYZ;

Why would there be weight restrictions? Where have you head this? It seems to me that this flight is easily within the normal range of the A340-500.
Next flight.... who knows.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:18 am

Will AC be able to generate any profit on this route with pax, but without cargo because of weight restrictions.

What gives you the notion that this flight will be weight restricted?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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Richard28
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:23 am

Though it's absolutely nothing to get excited over-- would be interesting to see what/how they do with this.

I'm excited!

to see an airline that has been in problems take delivery of a new plane to service this new route, with new seating, AVOD, and a cool plane to match, I think I need to lie down.............!
 
SafeFlyer
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:26 am

YYZ-HKG is a high-yielding route and there is no question that with the new A345, AC will be able to generate some kind of profit. It would be very hard not too and only bad management could be blamed for making such a route unprofitable. And yes JL, you're right, HKG is very well within the range of the A345 since the 343 made it non-stop on one way. It won't be payload restricted. And crews won't be re-trained as the a/c is compatible with AC's 343s/333s.

But the great news is: AVOD in hospitality!!! Yeaahhhh! Now, If they could only extend that to all 333s/343s and 763s  Smile/happy/getting dizzy But hopefully, this is not a priority for AC, just my dreams...
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:27 am

How profitable will this route be (not in terms of pax). Will AC be able to generate any profit on this route with pax, but without cargo because of weight restrictions. Its well known that cargo is a good revenue generator for AC (hence YYZ-FRA) route with the Combis. But without the ability to carry cargo and weight restrictions due to fuel and pax, will the route be profitable?


Excellent question. AC probably loses money on 90-95% of its routes since it is bankrupt and has a very negative operating margin (keep in mind that a breakeven carrier still loses money on 50% of its routes), so likely this route will lose money for AC.

One route will never save AC, so this new route is not big news and has NOTHING to contribute to AC's necessary restructuring.

Nonetheless, good luck to AC on this route (I guess).

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Spaceman
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:42 am

Wow 33" pitch for econ seats, that's pretty nice to have for this route.
 
GuyBetsy1
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:55 am

I'll still stick with CX. Service and food much better than AC anyday! Business or Economy.
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:57 am

HKG is very well within the range of the A345 since the 343 made it non-stop on one way

If this is the case, then why is AC spending capital that they don't have on two new planes to service this route (YYZ-HKG) and another one (YVR-SYD?). This one route and one aircraft will NOT turn AC around and make it a profitable company. Logic would tell me that if AC wanted to operate this route, they should acquire an A343 fly in non-stop one way and make a fuel-stop on the way to HKG. Surely this measure is far more cost-effective than acquiring new aircraft.

[Edited 2004-04-19 23:00:27]

Before I get any heckles, etc., I am completely aware and understand that AC is poorly managed and has no direction and therefore logic like this would never be taken into account.

[Edited 2004-04-19 23:02:03]
 
gigneil
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:04 am

Capital is never the problem.

Expenses are the problem.

Capital expenses don't show up negatively on your balance sheet, at least not the same scope. You pay out money, but you get an asset in return.

N
 
martinairyyz
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:09 am

Nice stuff, hope it lasts.

first worry about AC staying alive to even see the route start! LOL


I wonder what CX's response will be.

Maybe an enlargement in A/C? A346 or 744 maybe? How about a flight that lands at YYZ around noon?


Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
captaingomes
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:10 am

AC is currently short on long-haul aircraft, so by acquiring the new A345, theoretically AC can achieve higher yields. AC can also deploy the A343's on new routes and earn more money that way too. It still doesn't mean this is the right move at the current time, but in the long run, this is a good thing for AC, in my opinion.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:16 am

AC is currently short on long-haul aircraft, so by acquiring the new A345, theoretically AC can achieve higher yields. AC can also deploy the A343's on new routes and earn more money that way too. It still doesn't mean this is the right move at the current time, but in the long run, this is a good thing for AC, in my opinion.

Nuno, your logic makes sense for a profitable carrier. For a bankrupt inefficient carrier like AC, expansion likely means more losses.

AC currently flies 2 daily 343's YVR-HKG. This new 345 service will replace the YYZ origin 343 YYZ-YVR-HKG. Fuel savings & landing fees will be offset, by less YVR top up revenue if the YYZ flight is not full, further offset by addl revenue if the 343 from YYZ IS full. However, the 345 will have a higher lease rate, and will displace 2 343's that AC does not need elsewhere in its network.
The only guarantee is that expense will rise wth the 345 lease, but revenue MAY rise by attracting some pax from CX.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
flyyul
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:24 am

If anything is for sure, HKG is NOT a high-yield destination.

 
captaingomes
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:29 am

Mark, then why bother with the A345 to HKG? That doesn't make sense. Were AC forced to take delivery of the aircraft and now are using it wherever they can fill in the blanks?
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:36 am

If anything is for sure, HKG is NOT a high-yield destination.

Like nuno said, why did AC take possession of these aircraft. Furthermore, why did AC even contemplate acquiring these aircraft if they knew that YYZ-HKG was no a high-yield route. There are only four potential routes that AC can use these aircraft on and if AC knew that YYZ-HKG is not high-yielding, why not put the aircraft on another route if they were forced to take delivery?
 
Mark_D.
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:37 am

FLYYUL-- If anything is for sure, HKG is NOT a high-yield destination.

For many of those early90s Hong Kong émigrés now living in T.O. and Vancouver, it sure as heck would be!
 
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Richard28
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:47 am

I'm a bit suprised that YYZ-HKG is not a high yield route.

Its is one of the biggest business centres in the world, and is classified as a high yield route from most other places, is it not?
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:51 am

Its is one of the biggest business centres in the world, and is classified as a high yield route from most other places, is it not?

Yes it is and with the large immigrant population living in YYZ, there are vast numbers of people flying between the two locations. But remember, this is AC and therefore they are incapable of making the route work profitably.
 
behramjee
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:20 am

CX's response might be to fly to YYZ with the A 340-600 nonstop from HKG. I think that they'll first analyze how AC performs with this new flight revenue wise and based upon that, they will take action.

I think that theres enough extra demand to warrant CX flying the A 346 to YYZ though I know they only have 3 of the type which will be used for daily nonstop HKG-JFK service, thus making YYZ impossible unless they get an additional number of these aircraft!!!
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:32 am

Well it looks like my sources were right about the 345s arrival, as I had confirmed back in March.  Smile

Cheers,
Kaz
 
klyk1980
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:36 am

As a flyer, it is great to have the first-ever year-round non-stop between Toronto and Hong Kong. I am sure AC new route will attract many CX passengers.

Recently AC is co-operating with TG and UA in order to offer quick transit in code-share from HKG to BKK and SIN. This arrangement absorb certain amount of pax from CX transit pax, especially those in Star Alliance membership.

For CX, in response, it is too hard for CX to provide non-stop roundtrip and the moment. Personally I don't like 340-300, too crampy. I hope CX can replace their 744 on the route. Just a stupid question, is A333 possible for HKG-YVR-YYZ? I don't know if transpacific such as HKG-YVR is too much for A333.

For yielding, I think not bad compare to many other routes of AC. In order to provide a stable load factor to YYZ-HKG non-stop with 345, AC should start up some marketing campaign in the East Coast USA in order to attract some businessmen and students to make connection in Toronto for Asian flights.
 
gigneil
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:13 am

Just a stupid question, is A333 possible for HKG-YVR-YYZ? I don't know if transpacific such as HKG-YVR is too much for A333.


This route could even be done by a 763, if they were to so choose.

N
 
BOEING747-700
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:47 am

So, these Airplanes are coming in the Summer or are they coming now and will be deployed on the HKG route in August??
 
N754PR
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:17 am

Daily service with two aircraft!!, These are going to be some rather tired aircraft.

Anyway good news for the Hong Kong spotters...... well for two days.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:27 am

GIGNEIL-

I do believe the 330 is a stretch for the YVR-HKG, although AC's 330's will be the first for a trans-pacific flight operating AC003 YVR-NRT 2 days per week.
Above and Beyond
 
flyyul
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:59 pm

HKG from Canada is by principle low-yield. There is no shortage of "cheap" seats offered to this destination by other carriers.

You dont have to believe me.

 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:52 pm

HKG from Canada is by principle low-yield. There is no shortage of "cheap" seats offered to this destination by other carriers.

Well, I believe you Mark. The YYZ-HKG route is primarily a VFR market. Low yield. AC will be throwing some high cost aircraft and of course the omni-present high cost flight crew at this route. You have to wonder whether AC has a death wish adding the 345 when they are staring into the eyes of liquidation. Milton must be a cat with 9 lives.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
artsyman
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:59 pm

What is more interesting to me is that Airbus or whomever the financer is would actually deliver this aircraft to AC when they are clearly on last legs.

J
 
BWIA 772
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:07 pm

So now that AC are getting the A345 will they return one of the 343 to the ILFC. BWIA was to get their second 343 from AC but the aircraft was not returned (which worked out well for BWIA as they have money problems). BWIA decided to lease an ex Virgin 343 for a year. I really hope AC keep those 343s the interior is crap the seats are uncomfortable I do hope that the A345 offers a vast improvement.
Eagles Soar!
 
abhi
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:24 pm

I thought one of the first routes AC would fly their A345's on was YYZ-DEL-YYZ ..

i had the unfortunate pleasure of flying that route standby .. it was fine on the way to Delhi but the return leg was always weight restricted and even full paying passengers were asked to stay back let alone poor old standby me ..

that problem would be solved with the A345 ..
 
slawko
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:49 pm

Well between Onex, Canadian, 9-11, SARS, CCAA, and the 345's, thats 5 lives, so he still has a few to go, ah Neil?  Big grin
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
yul332LX
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:43 am

So now that AC are getting the A345 will they return one of the 343 to the ILFC

I don't think so. The plan was to get the A345s before summer so they could free a couple of 343s for other routes.
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:52 am

The plan was to free up 343's for alternate flying as was pointed out--most probably YVR-KIX, which is operating with two 763's, which in turn would have freed up those aircraft.

Thought the aircraft would have been flying by mid-June and early July respectively. Anybody aware of why the delay??

The surprise was YYZ-HKG as the first deployed routing. It was an assumption that because of the occasional techie stops in ARN, the DEL flight was the likely candidate. However given moderate bookings thru till September on YYZ-DEL-YYZ, operating non-stop westbound shouldn't be an issue.

On a side note, CX will no doubt be monitoring the YYZ-HKG route. Are their 346's equipped with F/J/Y, J/Y, or a combination of both seating plans?

[Edited 2004-04-20 17:54:40]
Above and Beyond
 
yul332LX
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:19 am

CX 346's configuration is 8/60/218 (286) so it's unlikely that we will see these planes operating HKG-YYZ...
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:56 am

Thought the aircraft would have been flying by mid-June and early July respectively. Anybody aware of why the delay??

I was wondering the same thing Rod. I guess with crew training, and route proving etc, Aug 1st seems reasonable. I guess the next question is which routes the 345 will be tested on before Aug 1st? Perhaps YYZ-YUL/YVR/LHR.

What is more interesting to me is that Airbus or whomever the financer is would actually deliver this aircraft to AC when they are clearly on last legs.

True. These 2 345's were recently allocated to EK but have now switched back to AC. They were supposed to enter AC service in May 2003 so AI (or the lessor) has been eating lease/mortgage payments since then. I guess they simply want SOME income on them, even from a soon-to-be liquidated carrier.

On a side note, CX will no doubt be monitoring the YYZ-HKG route.

I agree. If AC steals too may CX passengers, CX will have to respond.





I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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solnabo
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:09 am

 Big thumbs up Love U AC  Big thumbs up
Wayyy to go, Airbus  Big thumbs up

Michael//SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:48 am

Neil -

Regarding the testing routes for the aircraft. You're gonna think this is a strange one, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it on AC791/AC792 YYZLAXYYZ.

When the 747-400, A340 & A330 entered service, the aircraft was repeatedly deployed on the above two flights. Why?? Something if I recall to do with tax implications (rebate, credit?), and also allows pilots to accrue time on long turnaround days within the paramaters of North America.

Maybe the timing would be novel (or dubious) as well....A daily A340-500 operating to LAX or a Jetsgo thrice-weekly direct (stopping in YXE for fuel)flight??

Love or hate AC, think most people would choose "A".

Above and Beyond
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Will Use A345 On YYZ-HKG-YYZ Route

Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:16 am

Regarding the testing routes for the aircraft. You're gonna think this is a strange one, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it on AC791/AC792 YYZLAXYYZ.

Interesting! Thanks Rod!

When the 747-400, A340 & A330 entered service, the aircraft was repeatedly deployed on the above two flights.

I recall the 744 on YYZ-LAX! I do not remember the 343/333. Thanks!

Something if I recall to do with tax implications (rebate, credit?),

Mmmm....doubtful I think. There should not be any tax considerations for an in-service aircraft on YYZ-LAX vs YVR etc.

allows pilots to accrue time on long turnaround days within the paramaters of North America.

That's probably it. Also keeps cycles down vs YYZ-YUL.

A daily A340-500 operating to LAX or a Jetsgo thrice-weekly direct (stopping in YXE for fuel)flight??

Chuckle. I also would choose AC, 345 or not!  Big thumbs up






I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.

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