qqflyboy
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Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:02 am

From USA Today:

"A bankruptcy judge gave United until June 30 to submit a reorganization plan without risk of a competing plan from creditors or another party. That means United, which had planned to exit bankruptcy protection by June, isn't expected to exit until late summer or early fall. The judge refused United's request Friday for even more time. United sought bankruptcy protection in December 2002."

It says that UA may not emerge from BK until late summer or early fall, so does that mean bids from outsiders could be taken after June 30? Is UA in for a hostile takeover, or even Chapter 7? It doesn't seem likely to me, but it does sound like time is running out for them to get their plan in order.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
7e72004
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:47 am

I think United will have to downsize to survive. They will emerge from bankruptcy but just have to be at a smaller airline.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:00 am

Good to see the judge enforcing tough conditions. UA mgmt should redouble their efforts to emerge. An extension is not needed.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Guest

RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:04 am

can someone just liquidate them so we can all get on with our lives?
 
kbuf737
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:08 am

US goes, UA loses a valueble codeshare, UA goes and the other majors will be in better shape. Its survival of the fittest, good call by the judge.
The tower? Rapunzel!!!!!!
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:45 am


Good, I hope that the judge holds their feet to the fire, enough is enough already.
NO URLS in signature
 
haveric
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:28 am

Yeah, shut 'em down. I mean, who really would be hurt by shutting down the second largest airline in the country? No one works for them. No one is employed by one of their suppliers. No one flies them. No one depends on them for health insurance or a pension. No one needs to get from Boston to Bangkok. No one needs to pay rent on all that gate space.

Before you all bury an airline, thing for just a second about the consequences. This country has liberal bankruptcy laws for a reason -- we, as a society, place value in supporting struggling businesses because of all that would collapse along with them.
 
flyiguy
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:34 am

They Can't get out of bankruptcy because they are trying to run 2 airlines at once. Instead of trying to get their major airline out of the hole they are just putting TED in with it. They should have emerged out of bankruptcy before starting TED...Whats your opinion ???

Just my two cents...
FlyIGuy
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
N1641
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:36 am

the downside would be job loss, I'd imagine at hub cities theres quite a few employees, another down side is less competition means my ticket prices go up, but I dont need UA for anything else, I wont fly with them, service has always been crap the few times I've dealt with them
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:38 am

Whomever willfully wishes to see a major airline shut down operations is in serious need of a head exam. It may be easy for people who don't work in the industry to say "oh they had it coming" or some brilliant statement like that. The truth is it would affect the lives of THOUSANDS of employees and their families. Not ten, not fifty, thousands. But that's ok as long as the fittest company survives right? People are either heartless, stupid, or both. But, that's what makes the world go 'round.

Everyone doesn't have to like every airline flying out there...heck, there are a few that I downright loathe...but on a business level, all airline employees are one big family. Over here in F9 land, no one that I know wants to see UA go under. And I would imagine the feelings are mutual. I would hope so in any case.


Steve/MSY


 
DC10GUY
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:59 am

Haveric, You sure do sound like the typical liberal .......... And I agree with you 100%. I think United is going to make it. But, if US does go under efforts should be made to accommodate the ex-US employees at the other airlines. This was done when the original Branif went tits up ..... A lot of talented aviation experience would be lost along with those peoples jobs.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
ssides
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:21 am

First of all, Haveric stands like a typical conservative to me. He recognizes that businesses aren't the evil, malicious entities that liberals make them out to be, but that they are the engines that create jobs, innovation, and a high standard of living. Yet I digress, this isn't a political board and I hate it when the threads turn to that.

To root hard for an airline to go under is definitely a bad thing. We should want all of them to succeed, and for the industry to grow, bringing more aviation services to more people. That being said, we also have to be realistic. I would hate to see UA go under. Tens of thousands of people out of work, empty airports, and less international service from the US would definitely not be pleasant. However, I do think that there is too much capacity in the industry today, and that losing a carrier or two would be good for the industry in the long haul. The loss of pricing power is the key factor in the majors' decline over the past 10 years, and even with the presence of LCCs, one less major competitor would help some of the airlines restore their bottom lines.

Still, I think UA will make it. I have heard that their service improvements have been great -- hard for me to believe, based on my experiences with them a few years ago -- but if they are improving service and the bottom line, I wish them luck. I think USAirways will be the one to go under, and whether that turns out to be good for UA (less competition) or bad (loss of codeshare routes), is a long way off.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
F9Widebody
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:30 am

MSY Tristar wrote:
Whomever willfully wishes to see a major airline shut down operations is in serious need of a head exam. It may be easy for people who don't work in the industry to say "oh they had it coming" or some brilliant statement like that. The truth is it would affect the lives of THOUSANDS of employees and their families. Not ten, not fifty, thousands.

Another thing to consider is the impact to a city like Denver. United controls over 2/3 of the traffic here and sure Frontier is a great airline, but they do not have nearly the capacity or destinations to handle the surge if United were to go under. As United goes, so goes Denver.

Regards
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StevenUhl777
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:31 am

I dont need UA for anything else, I wont fly with them, service has always been crap the few times I've dealt with them  Nuts

Sounds like a good reason to wish Ch. 7 on them.... Nuts

What a stupid comment..

Haverick: right on, couldn't agree more.

Ssides: UA has made a big effort to increase the quality of their inflight product in order to win back customers and their confidence in United during this crucial time. United was the #1 on-time airline for 2002, and they have set several other operational benchmarks as well.

United will make it. In a way, I think this ruling is good, because it will in fact set the deadline to announce the business plan so they can reeemerge. The strength of that plan, and the reaction to it by the investment community and ATSB panel will determine if any other competing offers are put forward. Given UA's size and potential, I'm sure there is some group out there who would love to run it. Who knows...maybe that will be a choice for the winner of 'Apprentice II"  Big grin  Nuts  Insane
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:35 am

What the hell is with you guys? Calling for them to shut down so you can get on with your lives. Oh really? United's problems are taking time away from your lives? What about the livelihood of the employees who work at UA? Should they need to sacrifice that to make you guys happy?

I swear, AC is in trouble, you guys say "I can't wait till they die", US is in trouble, you say the same, then this news from UA, and it's "yeah! shut 'em down!".


Are you guys aviation fans or not?


You know what, just because of this, I'm booking a flight on UA instead of HP to cali this summer. Just so I can fly on them proudly. Whether they go or don't go, I support them, they will earn money from me this august.

You should be ashamed.  Angry
 
NIKV69
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:41 am

I agree with the judge, doesn't matter if we are aviation fans or not, I don't see the point of prolonging UA status of protection from creditors and everything else, either you have a plan and a way to survive and pay your bills or go away, it is better for everyone involved in the long run. Aviation is a great thing, but in the end it's still a BUSINESS.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:46 am

Problem is, short of this $1.6 billion that UA wants the taxpayers to fork over, I don't think UA has a plan. I think that IS their plan. And if they don't get it, they're up a creek without a paddle-hell, they don't even have a creek.
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:52 am


RSmith6621a depends on UAL to keep peanut butter in the cupboard.

I agree that there is a limit to the amount of extensions one should be able to file.


As for TED.....that was done at the suggestion of the Bankrupcy court...
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
YEGaircanada
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:55 am

Hey....Now you all know what Canada is going through.....and we don't even have close to as many airlines as you guys do!
NBC(vanguard)student
 
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mariner
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:03 pm

Rsmith:

"As for TED....that was done at the suggestion of the bankrup(t)cy court."

Sorry, wrong. Ted, aka Starfish, was dreamed up by McKinsey and Company, and they were paid a very great deal of money.

McKinsey's other airline clients have included Swissair and Sabena.

All the bk court did was approve the Ted plan presented to them.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Guest

RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:10 pm

Ok here is how it works. There is are a finite number of air travelers in this country and probably the world at any given time. If an airline goes under the other airlines will grow to meet the need. There will be some job loss in redundant managerial jobs and maybe some loss of jobs for the people down the line, but most of the employees will be needed by whatever airline fills the vaccum. I am sick of my tax dollars being shoveled into an airline that has shown time and time again its upper management can't manage a mcdonalds.
 
airways6max
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:16 pm

I don't think that UA is heading for oblivion, they're big enough that they'll probably survive by a hair's breadth.
 
cjuniel
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:29 pm

Well I will first say I am a United man for life. Always have been, always will be. With that said, I think today's ruling is just what United needs. Nothing like setting a date to force you to deal with something. I think creating Ted while operating under bankruptcy was a huge mistake. I know I am going to get a LOT of flack for my next statement, but I do NOT think a legacy carrier can expect to operate the same way as an LCC. Don't get me wrong. I like Jet Blue and Southwest as much as the next man, but if I am planning a trip to Rio, Bangkok or Cape Town, I sure as hell am not about to go to www.southwest.com and check their schedules to these remote destinations. I wholeheartedly believe that deregulation was needed in the airline industry. But it created some major problems because prior to, you didn't have carriers with extensive domestic AND international operations. Just as LCC's serve a purpose, so do the major carriers. I honestly believe that is where the majors have lost sight. Is it reasonable to expect to get costs in line? Hell yes. But will you ever be able to turn a 747 or 777 around in 30-45 minutes? HELL NO! Is United going to survive? Most definitely. I do want to add as a sidenote to F9Widebody, in the unlikely event that United does go under, Denver shouldn't have much trouble attracting another hub airline. Continental was the #1 airline in Denver during the 80s, and had Frank Lorenzo not ran them into the ground, Continental and United would still be battling head to head in Denver as we speak.
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:41 pm

As a taxpayer, I would refuse to take on any of the tab to save UA. Especially when our goverment insists on paying the tab while putting large restrictions on foreign investment which could open many new doors to capital that might possibly be an answer to all the misery. As part of the this industry myself it would be hard to see the effect of a Chapter 7 on the many employees, suppliers, ect.. I've already been there, done that myself on a smaller account. The #1 killer of United is greed. My hope would be for a MAJOR and massive take-over, restructuring and new attitude from top to bottom.

Kudos to the Judge, finally someone has put their foot down on the matter and has opened the opportunity for something to happen!!

[Edited 2004-04-21 05:43:36]
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
artsyman
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:07 pm

With that said, I think today's ruling is just what United needs. Nothing like setting a date to force you to deal with something.
****

I totally agree. It appears to many that UAL are trying to avoid making any of the real tough decisions, and trying to ride along in Chapt 11 until the industry either recovers, or until the "new" industry playing field is a little more understood.

The Judge is now saying enough is enough, time to get your finger out and make the changes that are needed, and with that, we will see if enough can be done to correct the UAL business plan.

I have faith in Tilton, but I have my doubts about the things outwith UAL control.

J
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:37 pm

startvalve,
im assuming that you mean all the airlines when you said you were sick of shoveling tax dollars into an airline that is mismanaged.....all the airlines have been given money...not a loan but actual cash after 9-11.

alpha1,
contrary to what you are posting you nor i are forking over any money to ua or us or even f9 for that matter, all the atsb is doing is co signing for the note, now f9 paid it back and early, us has restructed it to make it where they hopefully can pay it back, do you see into the crystal ball and see ual getting the money then going south into ch7???if so ual needs to shut down now, if co was in ual,us or maybe dl shoes you and your crowd of gordon wanna bees would be putting a spin on the co woes better than any ual person has ever done.......
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:45 pm

Could TED evetually replace all Domestic services across the US? At a lower cost base, I am sure this looks more appealing to all those creditors. Not too sure what would happen to the International operations though?
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:52 pm

Since you all seem to be bickering amongst yourselves so much, and this is a Civil aviation forum, let me direct you to a place where it is more acceptable to bicker and moan:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation

DLKAPA
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
ordpark
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:24 pm

I see by the profiles of people like 'startvalve' and most of the other folks that are so eager for UA to close up shop that you aren't old enough to appreciate what it's like to spend a career working for an airline for most of your adult life...in fact, I'm willing to bet some of you had never held a meaningful job in your lives....So, before you so willingly trash United, get your facts straight!

I'm sorry folks, but UA is gonna disappoint you....they are gonna survive...!
 
artsyman
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:37 pm

Could TED evetually replace all Domestic services across the US? At a lower cost base, I am sure this looks more appealing to all those creditors
****

Everything I have read thus far states that TED actually increases the costs for UAL as opposed to being a low cost option for UAL. I know they are a low cost option for the flying public, but the reports seem to imply that they have the same, if not higher costs to operate than UAL mainline.
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:58 pm

qqflyboy,
before you spew anymore b.s.---please post the link to usa today about this.................
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
donder10
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:12 pm

the downside would be job loss, I'd imagine at hub cities theres quite a few employees, another down side is less competition means my ticket prices go up, but I dont need UA for anything else, I wont fly with them, service has always been crap the few times I've dealt with them

Well,seeing as most airlines are losing money right now that would indicate a decent level of competition.



As United goes, so goes Denver.
Not for long!Isn't DEN the highest yielding hub in the US?CO will move in pretty quickly if UA goes under,picking up many of the UA's employees in DEN.


This country has liberal bankruptcy laws for a reason -- we, as a society, place value in supporting struggling businesses because of all that would collapse along with them.
It's more to do with preserving as much value as possible than preventing ''collapse''.

 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:31 pm

ARTSYMAN,
can you please show me were ted is costing more than ua mainline to operate?????
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
artsyman
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:31 pm

Uadc8contrail, this report is in every paper now, not just the USA Today. I read it on various news sites today.

J
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:35 pm

jeremy,
since im a idiot....please post a link...thxxxxxxxxx
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:44 pm

i thought so.....no links=no story....only stirring the pot....nice try
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
artsyman
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:47 pm

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/national/8449489.htm

The part that the original post is refering to is..."Judge Eugene Wedoff of the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Northern District of Illinois refused to extend the period beyond that date, despite a request made in court by the company's lead attorney, James H.M. Sprayregen."

Hope that helps
j
 
artsyman
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:53 pm

As for the story about Ted's costs, I just did a google search, and here is just one of many....

Coming of age in the 1980s, I remember when "Ted" referred to Keanu Reeves, as Ted "Theodore" Logan in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure. Alas, no more. Now, Ted is an airline.

On Thursday, bankrupt UAL Corp.'s (OTC BB: UALAQ.OB) subsidiary United Airlines launched a new lower-fare affiliate called Ted, with an inaugural flight from Denver to Ft. Lauderdale. Billed as a hip alternative to such low-fare rivals as JetBlue (Nasdaq: JBLU) and Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV), Ted supposedly combines bargain prices with outstanding service.

United may be one of the finest in the air for passenger service, but is this really a differentiator in the world of no-frills airlines? Uh, no. More airlines are getting into the discounting business daily and passengers expect more for less. Witness Delta's (NYSE: DAL) Song, which is a distant cousin to Ted. Then there's AirTran (NYSE: AAL) and Denver-based Frontier (Nasdaq: FRNT), both modestly successful no-frills carriers.

Cool new paint aside, Ted is the same old thing. Both Ted's and Frontier's websites showed that the airlines charge the exact same price for a proposed trip to Vegas from Denver, leaving a week from today and returning on Monday, Feb. 23.

Of course, the biggest problem is that Ted actually raises United's costs. UAL says it will dedicate 45 planes to Ted and plans to keep them in the air 20% more than its remaining fleet, which will use additional fuel and jack up payroll. The additional seating in each of Ted's A-320 aircraft could offset those expenses, but that depends on taking customers from competitors. It's a failed strategy, according to aviation consultant Mike Boyd, who has followed the industry for 20 years. In an interview, Boyd cited bankrupt carrier Braniff and United's defunct Shuttle by United Service as prime examples of the failed Ted model.

So what should investors do? For one thing, it would be Foolish to keep a microscope on UAL's finances. Last month, the company reported that it reduced fourth-quarter operating expenses by 16% from the same period a year ago. Ted could reverse that trend without adding substantial revenue gains.

Certainly the no-frills airlines business is a good one, just ask Southwest. But none of the larger carriers have successfully encroached on Southwest's turf. Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL) ditched its low-fare subsidiary five years ago, and AMR Corporation's (NYSE: AMR) American and Northwest Airlines (NYSE: NWB) are ignoring the lower end of the market.

http://www.fool.com/News/mft/2004/mft04021313.htm
 
Goldentail
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:56 pm

As far as UA goes...all I can say is....remember what goes around comes around.....can you say TORQUE? My hearts bleeds for UA....not!

"The Proud Bird -w- The Golden Tail"
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:57 pm

ure qouting the mia herald?????come on jeremy get me a link to the chicago area papers or dont post it......if ual was in dire straits as most of you have had it...then dont you think the trib or sun times would have had reporters in elk grove last week?????miami herald covering the united bk is like the rocky mountain news covering the dire straits in atl at jerry grinsteins house of horrors...post some quality not trash links...............
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
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ua2162
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:04 pm

The additional seating in each of Ted's A-320 aircraft could offset those expenses, but that depends on taking customers from competitors.

I think the bottom line is that it's too early to tell how successful TED is. "Could" is a big word. In other words, "we really don't know yet." So, let's not jump to conclusions just yet.

As far as UA being denied an extension, I think it is a good thing. As stated above, this will finally force UA to make some decisions. UA will stand and they will emerge from this whole mess as a stronger airline.
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:08 pm

goldentail,
why do you think ual came up with torque????because your frank lorenzo luvin idiots were going over to ual tkt ctr and pulling free tkt holding morons over to co, you think any carrier will let that go on????get a life......ual did not throw u guys out on i25 and scurry down i25 to the south towards iah...that punk frank and his band of im gonna cut all the wages and screw denver in the process crew did u non union luvn morons in......
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
artsyman
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:16 pm

ure qouting the mia herald?????come on jeremy get me a link to the chicago area papers or dont post it.
****

The article is in all the national papers, are there any specific Chicago newspaper journalists I need to avoid ?

If you actually read what I wrote, I thought it was a good thing, and would hopefully force UAL to get their finger out and get this sorted..., anyways, here are some other links...

http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=12157

There are also 3 stories on www.chicagotribune.com but they need registration. If you have such a thing, then go there and do a search for United Airlines.
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:29 pm

j,
your making this out to be a monumental occasion, both the miami herald and the other papers have this out to be the death march on algonquin rd, j.....you wanna spar over costs.....show me ACTUAL costs on f9 how they are cheaper to op than ua and their ted flts and i will go away....
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
Goldentail
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:48 pm

uadc8contrail.......Is that the best you got?
Sorry you live in fantasyland....since I was a ticket counter supervisor in DEN at the time of TORQUE I'll have to take exception to your very ridiculous statement that we stole your paxs....that's absolutely hilarious!

As far as Frank Lorenzo is concerned, no argument from me on him...he was and is an idiot. But you missed the obvious point, we did not want Frank, but we sure as hell got stuck with him. But given that as it may...did that give your mighty UAL the green light to stab CO in the heart and all it's hard working employees who were just trying to stay employed?

Non union luvn morons???? Really Guess the fact that I'm a card carrying member of the TWU local must mean I'm non union, not to mention the Teamsters representing our mechanics, and oh lets not forget ALPA for the Pilots, and oh yes....IFA for the flight attendants.....get a clue!
Sorry you can't face up to the fact that what your company pulled was the lowest crap I have ever seen in 20 years in the industry. Most any intelligent person on this board knows even to this day that what UA did was predatory in nature.

But you go ahead and fling your mud....I'm able to handle it.

"The Proud Bird -w- The Golden Tail"
 
airtrainer
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RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:53 pm

What the hell is with you guys? Calling for them to shut down so you can get on with your lives. Oh really? United's problems are taking time away from your lives? What about the livelihood of the employees who work at UA? Should they need to sacrifice that to make you guys happy?

I swear, AC is in trouble, you guys say "I can't wait till they die", US is in trouble, you say the same, then this news from UA, and it's "yeah! shut 'em down!".


Are you guys aviation fans or not?


You know what, just because of this, I'm booking a flight on UA instead of HP to cali this summer. Just so I can fly on them proudly. Whether they go or don't go, I support them, they will earn money from me this august.

You should be ashamed.


Aloha717200, you're absolutely right ! UA must live.

Regards

Life is short : eat dessert first !
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:08 pm

goldentail,
how did ua stab u guys in the heart if frank was dumping chreap seats into den and forcing ual to compete against you guys when you were in bk????what you(co)did was worse than what you guys did to frontier #1......to bad you were drinking the kool aid.....jim and his group in guyana would have loved to get you as a member.........and do not start on frontier.....frontier was the unwilling accomplice here when you guys were selling chances on dc9s to slc for $29...... and making ual match them even though you could not make any money.......
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:19 pm

goldentail,
maybe thats why co had problems....mgmt was card carrying twu members and the minnions were at the mercy of frank....you guys were hell bent on screwing the company when the indians were trying to keep the boat afloat and they were non union....go figure.....now talk about how f-ed up the industry is now.....look back 25 yrs and you will see a night mare back at co in the early 80s late 70s.....
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
Goldentail
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:35 pm

uadc8contrail......

Your a real piece of work!

You must enjoy looking foolish. Oh lets not forget the fact UAL was going to buy Frontier and save it from it's ultimate demise....oh thats right you dumped them like a piece of cold flesh leaving Don Burr and PE to come gobble up the remains. So don't give me your slander about Frontier. you guys only care about yourselves. Always have, always will.

Personally, I hope Frontier kicks your Torque living butts!

Have a nice day

Have a nice day
"The Proud Bird -w- The Golden Tail"
 
lymanm
Posts: 1100
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:30 pm

RE: Judge Denies UA More Time

Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:38 pm

Yeah, this Uadc8contrail guy is a bit nuts, he was offended when I called UA "cash strapped" in another post. Facts are facts.
buhh bye

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