5280AGL
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Horizon At OMA?

Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:11 am

Does anybody know why a Horizon CRJ (QXE4332) was in Omaha today? I know there have been rumors for quite awhile about them entering the market, could this be a sign of things to come?
 
DSMav8r
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:16 am

Good question...The Horizon CRJs have been flying in here for the past 2-3 days, all operating 4000-number flights between Denver and Omaha. My guess would be proving runs or pilot training, but, it does seem a little strange that they would choose that particular route. Omaha will get Horizon/Alaska, it is just a matter of when.
To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
 
Guest

RE: Horizon At OMA?

Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:24 am

It isn't operating a Frontier Jet Express flight?
 
Guest

RE: Horizon At OMA?

Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:26 am

From Frontier's website... it's scheduled.

4332 DEN
5:41 pm
ABQ
6:40 pm
Delayed

4332 OMA
6:27 pm
DEN
6:34 pm
In Air
 
Dash 80
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:46 am

Yeah, Horizon started flying Frontier Jet Express to OMA I believe on the 10th of this month. It's the whole reason Frontier relocated from Gate 3 to Gate 9. Gate 3 used to serve all the aircraft in Frontier's fleet (which isn't much), but it would not go down to the CRJ. Gate 9 does them all. It's been nice having them here so far. Hopefully it will lead to nice little relationship between OMA and Horizon that will entice Alaska Air to give it another look.
...where the rubber hits the runway...
 
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mariner
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:11 am

It's nothing to do with Horizon. They simply provide the planes and the crews and get paid on a cost plus basis.

Frontier does all the scheduling, selling, etc., gets the profit if there is any and stands the loss if there is one.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:26 am

"that will entice Alaska Air to give it another look."

That would be a good thing. We are a little thin on westbound options right now. We could use Alaska/Horizon around here.
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ASBOIRR
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Fri Apr 23, 2004 12:10 pm

I haven't heard anything about OMA but I would seriously doubt AS would fly there. It would most likely be QX.

Anyways, about the planes. Horizon still seems to mix things up. Recently while I was waiting for a QX flight to SEA, a F9 Express pulled up operating as a regular Horizon flight from PDX.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:37 pm

"I haven't heard anything about OMA but I would seriously doubt AS would fly there. It would most likely be QX."

And why would that be?
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dash8tech
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:58 pm

Simple, we're still in the process of getting all the F9 Express aircraft painted and stickered so if one of the F9 livery birds is broken we'll sub in one of regular QX line as a spare if available. That is what you're seeing when our regular paint-job jets are showing up waaaaaay out there on F9 flight numbers.

Cheers!
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:08 am

I may have to slip down to the airport and see if I can track one down. Do they still show up as FFT#### on the ATC stuff?
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
Guest

RE: Horizon At OMA?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:32 am

Why would it show up as FFT? It isn't Frontier Airlines operating the flight. Air Wisconsin doesn't show up as UAX or whatever to ATC whether it's operating AirTran or United... always uses their own Air Wisconsin code.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 7:12 am

Duh. I didn't even think about that. The funny thing is, I have a massive Flight Explorer filter set that has the different regionals colored the same as the parent they fly for... so I already knew that the regionals show up differently. My brain hurts today.
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LambertMan
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 7:29 am

I would probably have to agree with ASBOIRR, OMA isn't quite ready to support a flight to SEA on AS. Maybe QX would be more suited to the market. Just an opinion from a complete AS outsider, AS739x would probably be the guy to ask. I think for AS destinations he listed previously on this site it was something like SLC, MSY, ATL, PIT, and STL.

Fox, if you are looking for more westward options, maybe F9 would consider including OMA in its LAX expansion.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:07 am

Actually, I wouldn't mind WN to SJC or LAX.
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5280AGL
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:23 pm

I have to agree with LambertMan as well, I am not sure if OMA could support AS mainline to Seattle...Unless, AS were to enter another midwest market as well (STL for example) and run a STL-OMA-SEA flight. But, I don't see any real benefit of doing that. QX 2x daily, OMA-SEA seems like a good place to start.

As long as we are talking about west coast routes, the LAX run is the one that needs to come back. Despite what Midwest said (they were obviously leaving regardless of how the OMA hub or LAX route was doing, KC gave them a sweeter deal), everyone I ever talked to said the LAX loads were very good. Hell, you figure OMA has had nonstop LAX service for what, 25-30 years? That doesn't happen unless the route is profitable.
 
Guest

RE: Horizon At OMA?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:42 pm

Hell, you figure OMA has had nonstop LAX service for what, 25-30 years? That doesn't happen unless the route is profitable.

Actually, in the route case where OMA-LAX service initially came about, the airlines were given a choice of where to stop by the Civil Aeronautics Board. It was either Omaha or Des Moines. United chose Omaha. Kind of like why Eastern flew STL-OMA-SEA-PDX and reverse (and OMA-PDX-SEA)... the CAB made them. Can't really say any route before deregulation was profitable based on the length of time it was served. There was also service OMA-SUX, OMA-OLU, OMA-LNK for as long and it wasn't necessarily profitable.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:19 am

"There was also service OMA-SUX, OMA-OLU, OMA-LNK for as long and it wasn't necessarily profitable."

Wow... THOSE are rediculous. Especially Columbus.

One reason for the SEA route is that OMA is a very tech-heavy city. I personally have flown to SEA to visit Microsoft on business a few times on various contracts for companies here. Just a thought.
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DSMav8r
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 2:04 am

Those were old Ozark and Frontier "milk-run" routes...None of these routes had anything to do with profitability. The CAB told the airlines where to fly and they did. Which is why you no longer see DC-9s sitting on the ramp in Mason City, Ft. Dodge, Dubuque, or Waterloo these days.  Smile
To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 4:53 am

Regulation was so stupid.
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Guest

RE: Horizon At OMA?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 2:16 pm

Regulation was so stupid.

Depends on your viewpoint. More communities had better air service than they do today. Fares were understandable, and actually lower in some markets. It was also more feasible to fly shorter distances.... like Omaha out to Grand Island for business for the day.

The CAB did make numerous efforts to ween carriers, especially local-service airlines, off of the government subsidies, such as their "use it or lose it" declaration to communities. If they didn't average five passengers a day, the government wouldn't offer a subsidy to stop there.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:42 pm

QX would never start service to OMA. I think the only reason why some of you saw a QX a/c in OMA is because QX probably leased one of their planes to Frontier Jet Express. Frontier probably ran out of spare aircraft because of this. Also, QX is a regional airline so OMA is way out of their 'range'. As for AS flying to OMA, that wont ever happen, at least for right now. There's no market for a SEA-OMA routing.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
Guest

RE: Horizon At OMA?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:40 pm

Also, QX is a regional airline so OMA is way out of their 'range'.

By the stricted definition you are applying, any destination south of about Eureka is out of their 'range.'

Horizon is no longer a regional, nor is Comair, ASA, American Eagle, ExpressJet, Chautauqua, etc.... they are more appropriately termed "small jet providers" as none of them sticks to the geographic constraints of a regional and some serve more of the country than any major airline (hell, two of them are major airlines: Eagle and ExpressJet).
 
as739x
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:40 am

N601QX
N604QX
N605QX
N609QX
N613QX
N616QX
N617QX

These are the A/C from Horizon that are currently operating for F9 Express. We do see thse bird rotate in and out per maintance and QX/AS let all the agents know this when this first started to no be surprised about these planes showing up. Some A/C (616,617) are in all white so those are the choice of aircraft that will operate either/or.
Flight will show up on flight trackers with QX4*** flight numbers.

To answer the question of OMA service by Alaska Air Group (AAG), don't count on it. I would expect Wichita to be the first city in the central plains that will be served. but not in the near future!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 3:25 am

"I would expect Wichita to be the first city in the central plains that will be served."

Why ICT over OMA? The Boeing connection?
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as739x
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 4:11 am

From what I have heard, yes! That is why ICT is on the watch list. but this would be all far down the road. I wouldn't hold your breath on AS or QX (flights) in that region for a few years.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
LambertMan
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 4:15 am

TWA even had ICT-OMA flights on a S80. As739x, ICT will come before MCI, STL, and OMA?
 
frugalqxnwa
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:50 am

I doubt AS will start OMA, at least not at first. QX maybe, but even so they would be competing directly against NW, a code-share partner with a hub less than 300 miles away.

However, it would be cool for me for when I fly OMA-BOI to go home for school breaks, I would be flying on an airline that is closer to being a hometown airline of BOI.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:24 am

I know we have been looking for a new airline around here... and it looks like it would be AirTran... although I bet JetBlue could actually make it work to both coasts.
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SuperDash
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:42 pm

Indeed the current OMA service (2x/day) is Horizon operating as Frontier JetExpress to/from Denver. As for service to Seattle or LA for Horizon from OMA, that is a painfully long flight on a CRJ. The average fares would have to be up there for Horizon to be able to make money. It would be better served with a 737, but I don't know if the market is big enough. As for Wichita, the economy it horrible. It too is a painfully long haul on a CRJ. A possilbe destination, but not real exciting and I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:56 pm

I hope that AS goes to ICT rather than OMA....the Boeing connection seems appropriate to put it.

TWA even had ICT-OMA flights on a S80. As739x, ICT will come before MCI, STL, and OMA?

AS in STL? Nahh, AS partners with AA. So if pax wanted to go to STL they would have to fly on AA to get there. Its not worth AS flying the route.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:52 pm

"that is a painfully long flight on a CRJ"

Good point. CO does OMA to IAH which is about 2:15... even that is kind of obnoxious.
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mariner
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:15 am

It's just been announced - from July 18, Frontier Jet Express is adding a 3rd flight DEN/OMA,for a total of 2 x Frontier mainline, 3 x express.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040426/lam086_1.html

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:48 am

That's still well down from what it used to be. It wasn't long ago that we had a lot of mainline F9 traffic. Probably at least 4 per day... maybe more. Of course, they are running alongside UA on that route and UA serves more end destinations.

[Edited 2004-04-26 19:54:05]
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mlsrar
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:51 am

Good point. CO does OMA to IAH which is about 2:15... even that is kind of obnoxious.

You think OMA-IAH is bad? Try RDU-DEN on a CRJ.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
Greg
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:14 am

I do iah-oma on coex frequently in the summer since we have a ranch just west of Omaha...it's not bad at all. Beats the heck out of UA through DEN or ORD.
 
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mariner
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:58 am

Fox:

Are you sure about that?

I've been following Frontier fairly closely for at least five years, and I don't remember any more than three x daily to Omaha, even with when the had the add-on to Bloomington/Normal.

But I'm getting old, my mind is going.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy I could easily be wrong.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:23 am

"I do iah-oma on coex frequently"

But it is a helluva lot nicer on the 73s.

"Fox: Are you sure about that?"

No, I'm not. It just seems like we had more than 3 flights here. Hmmm...
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
DSMav8r
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:44 am

The maximum number of daily F9 flights out of OMA was 4...That was back when there were flights to BMI and MSP (97-98?).

This new flight is good news, however, I would be more excited if it were a LAX-OMA nonstop. F9 is growing in OMA, United is shrinking...
To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is home
 
InnocuousFox
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 7:59 am

I have to agree. More F9 flights to DEN doesn't help us out much at all. Giving us a new non-stop to a highly traveled destination is much cooler.
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mariner
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:14 am

"More F9 flights to DEN doesn't help us out much at all..."

Gosh, that sounds a bit negative, Fox. I hope F9 doesn't cut flights back.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

cheers

martiner
aeternum nauta
 
Greg
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:38 am

No way...nonstop is King! Not gonna waste my time connecting if I don't have to.
 
Guest

RE: Horizon At OMA?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:43 am

I have to agree. More F9 flights to DEN doesn't help us out much at all. Giving us a new non-stop to a highly traveled destination is much cooler.

Much cooler doesn't always mean it is feasible or should happen.

Just be happy for extra capacity and more frequency to Denver where there are great connecting opportunities on Frontier, and driving down the fares not only on United but on other airlines with connecting possibilities.
 
rj777
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RE: Horizon At OMA?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:04 am

F9 is growing in OMA, United is shrinking...



I hope UA doesn't leave us completely!