anthsaun
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How Would You Improve JFK?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:35 am

Let us assume that you get to be hired to manage JFK. The City and Port Authority gives you an unlimited budget. Your goal is to place JFK among the best airports in the world.

I know this is not airport tycoon, but let us give it a try. Some one important might read it.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
flyguy1
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:43 am

JFK is already one of the best airports in the world.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
SQ25J
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:52 am

Flyguy1-I agree with you!

JFK is a great airport, although there (as most airports) is a lot of red tape for operators. I would lower fees and give incentives/financing to airlines or manageement companies to modernize thos terminals in need of renovation. I would also find someone to operate terminal 5, while keeping original architecture intact. Also would think long-term and build/expand terminal facilities. Also would tear down some old buildings/warehouses on outskirts.
 
richierich
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 7:05 am

One of the best airports in the world? Please....

I like JFK and it is my "local" int'l airport, even though it is some 70 miles away from my house. But I have never felt it was a world-class airport. It is always under some sort of construction, the mass transit choices to Manhattan are interesting to say to least (downright terrible if you want to be mean about it), and the road choices are always congested and slow. In fact, the Van Wyck (an interstate, I might add) has a 35 mph speed limit in one stretch near JFK!

With that said, I think the AirTrain is a big plus. It definitely helps close the distance of the long-term lot (which is always full or near to capacity on weekends) and rental car facilities. It beats the heck out of the slow busses they used to run. I think JFK has some of the most unique terminal architecture in the world, with T1 and T4 being modern world-class facilities, while T3 (now Delta, former Pan Am Worldport) and T5 (former TWA Saarinen building) are instantly recognizable landmarks. I think JetBlue has done a decent job rehabilitating T6 over the last four years and T7 is looking better too. But traffic is always a constant problem and most of the terminals do not have dedicated drop-off and pick-up areas.

I like JFKs variety of aircraft and airlines, probably the most diverse in the USA. After all, until October last year, it was the only US airport where you could see Concorde on a regular basis!

How would I improve JFK? If money were no object, I'd find a way to connect AirTrain with Manhattan, preferably either to Grand Central or Penn Station. Don't worry, I know that will never happen, but I can't help thinking it only goes halfway at the moment. I also think JFK needs better and more secure parking. The long term lot is literally 3 miles from some of the terminals! Finally, I would like to see a safe, dedicated place to watch aircraft - don't treat spotters like criminals! Use metal detectors or whatever, but so many of the best JFK ramp views are only available on the wrong side of the security gates!
None shall pass!!!!
 
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STT757
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:49 am

The Port Authority is finishing up a $9 Billion Dollar Improvement project at JFK, there's only a few things needed.

Direct connection of the Airtrain with Manhattan, one seat ride to Penn Station or Lower Manhattan.

Connect JFK with LGA, extend the Airtrain from Jamaica to LGA with stops at the Flushing #7 station and Flushing LIRR station through LGA's Terminals and then further East to the N train in Astoria.

Additional and improved Airport hotels, the hotels at JFK now are lacking.
The Ramada is terrible, they need a Marriott, Sheraton, Hilton, Hyatt, Westin etc.. And not across the Belt Parkway but in the Central Terminal Area, perhaps built above one of the short term parking lots.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:54 am

Move it to New Jersey.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
airxliban
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:07 am

bring back the concorde
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
BigOrange
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:54 am

Build a huge spotters enclosure open 24 hours with aviation shop, mounds for photographers, 24 hours security to stop any terrorist threat.
Take control of the Belt Parkway and make it into the best road in NY, widen it and add express lanes.

Build a tunnel to Highlands NJ direct across the bay to JFK, so I didn't have to go across Manhattan or Staten Island.

Airline wise, I would encourage more Latin American and Asian carriers and give Jet Blue total control of terminals 5 and 6. Give Terminal 7 to Southwest, and guaranteed priority use to Southwest and Jet Blue of 13R/31L for take offs when weather permits with all other carriers using 13L/31R in front of the spectators enclosure!

A direct bus service from JFK to EWR every 30 minutes instead of the van service every 2 hours like at present.

Make all terminals provide decent seating and at least 1 major restaurant outside of security.

I would also make all courtesy vans use a terminal near the Long Term Parking area and make everyone use the AirTrain to get there.
There would be no dropping off outside terminals, everyone would have to use the parking garages, but there would be free skycaps for everyone.



 
prosa
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:04 pm

A full renovation of T2 and T3, figuring out what to do with T5 (aviation museum, perhaps?), better hotels as mentioned earlier, these are a few ideas.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
rjpieces
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:23 pm

I would love to see a High Speed train connecting Penn Station and JFK in 10 minutes, similar to the Heathrow Express. I know it's not feasible or practical, but I would love to see it!
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
EWRvirgin
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:27 pm

Ask not what your airport can do for you, but what you can do for your airport.

Anyway, I'd settle with just not being hassled for spotting there.
 
anthsaun
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 2:07 am

What about the technical aspects an air control?
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
yhmfan
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 2:24 am

I have connected through JFK a few times and I wish the connections between terminals were a little more frequent and going in both directions.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:51 am

Most of what needs to be done at JFK's terminal area is either being done or finished, particularly the AirTrain which allows fast connections between terminals. You used to have to take a bus and it could take 45 minutes to make a frigging loop around the terminals. An airport's terminals should have speedy connections, be more or less one organism. It should take no more than 10 minutes to get from any one terminal to another at any time, including waiting.

What remains? JetBlue should be allowed to redevelop T5 and connect it to T6. Having looked at a lot of pictures and diagrams, I still don't understand why T5 couldn't be renovated and used. The Delta terminals are ugly old clunkers and should be replaced eventually, but for now they get the job done.

I would build another parallel runway in Jamaica Bay. The heck with the NIMBY's and environmental extremists. NY needs more runway capacity, and that's the most open space there is around any NYC area airport to do it. JetBlue would ensure that such a runway gets plenty of use.

Jim

Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
masseybrown
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 3:57 am

If I really had an unlimited budget, I would start with a lot of dynamite. The place is such a patchwork of fixes done on the cheap that anything else will just be another patch.

Of course, there is NEVER an unlimited budget, so I would work on access roads and direct (close is NOT good enough) rail access. The airlines can take care of the terminals themselves.
 
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STT757
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 5:41 am

"I would build another parallel runway in Jamaica Bay. The heck with the NIMBY's and environmental extremists. NY needs more runway capacity, and that's the most open space there is around any NYC area airport to do it. "

JFK does not need a fifth runway, JFK has less aircraft movements than EWR which has three runways but handles "almost" the same number of passengers each year.

The problems in NYC are not so much runways (although EWR's two pararell runways need to be spaced further apart) it's the congestion in the skies above, more runways at JFK does nothing if you can't fit more planes into the flight paths.

The flight paths and departure/arrival patterns for the Tri-State area need to be totally re-done, the FAA is finally starting to address the situation.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:52 am

STT....I'll second spacing the runways at EWR, that one can go on a thread on "what would we do to improve EWR?" Move the beer brewery and start paving.

The fact that JFK doesn't have as many departures as EWR doesn't mean that both airports don't need additional runway capacity. Heck, EWR needs at *least* one more runway if not more, but who would pay to move a brewery (on one side) and all those docks (on the other)? DTW handles only slightly more pax than JFK, and DTW puts its six runways to good use.

And yes, the FAA should redo the airspace over the region, which from what I read, is configured at far less than optimum capacity and isn't reconfigured due to NIMBYs. Again, speaking ideally, the NIMBY's would be told to stuff it, and the airspace redesigned as to serve the needs of air transportation and the region's economy.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
UN_B732
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:55 am

JFK is a dump!
Don't Lie!
Ever been to T3?
you'll see my point.
Demolish and Rebuild it to be nice like AMS.
-Mr. X
What now?
 
SNATH
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:02 am

If I really had an unlimited budget, I would start with a lot of dynamite. The place is such a patchwork of fixes done on the cheap that anything else will just be another patch.

I so agree with you! I flew through JFK twice during the past 6 or so months
and I hated every second I was there. The terminals were dirty, gloomy, disgusting,
and overcrowded. I'm actively avoiding getting anywhere near JFK in the future.
To be totally fair, I do have to say that I was only in terminals 8 and 9 (that's AA
and Eagle, right?) and I don't know how the rest are. But 8 and 9 wouldn't look out
of place in a third-world country...

JFK is already one of the best airports in the world.

Please tell me you're being sarcastic...

Tony

[Edited 2004-04-25 03:31:09]
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
mark777300
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:38 pm

JFK has gone through a lot of changes over the past years, and the present construction doesn't make it look attractive, but in due time it will. What I wouls do is get rid of the Delta terminals, they have such a 60's style to them that they look so out of place. I would combine the former TWA Int. terminal with Jetblue's terminal, (I'm sure they will need all that space eventually). The AirTrain is an actual great addition to JFK, and once the Jamaica transit hub is completed, a smooth transfer between the Airtrain and the LIRR or subway will be realized. In truth, it only takes around 10 minutes to get from JFK to Jamiaca, and if you catch the right LIRR train, you'll be in midtown in another 15 minutes. It would be great to connect Airtrain with LGA. That maze of roads within JFK needs to be changed, I still get lost whenever I drive through the airport!!
 
rjpieces
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 2:04 pm

Another idea, if money wasn't an issue.

Back in the early 90s, there was a plan to build one central terminal area with the terminals serving as concourses. It would require massive reconstruction and JFK would lose much of it's charm, but I thought I would share.

http://www.pcfandp.com/a/p/8726/s.html
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
UN_B732
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:16 pm

Demolisth it all, Make it really nice like SIN, AMS or a world-class airport (never been to SIN but heard it's reallynice)
Replace most of the staff with friendly, motivated, individuals, and make a one-seat train to Manhattan---NOT THE SUBWAY---
-Mr. X
What now?
 
rjpieces
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:58 pm

"Replace most of the staff with friendly, motivated, individuals, and make a one-seat train to Manhattan"

Not likely to get superfriendly NYC staff, unless you pay for a few thousand ex-SQ,CX airport workers to move to New York!
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:42 am

1. Staff training in Politness and service.
(Remember large numbers of visitors are europeans who treat each other with more respect and less like walking luggage).

2. Entertainment. European airports make a killing from electronics's duty free pubs, bars restaurants.
(A Macdonalds and a shop with less selection of products than my local liquor store really doesnt hit the spot).

3. Security.

You don;t have to be rude, arrogant and dictatorial to be safe.
Remember Children get scared easily and also break, so don;t try putting them through the scanner or letting a dog eat them. (OK I exaggerate but security could be more fun, and lets face it everyone wants it, but wants to get it over and done with as quick as possible, but a sense of humour and an ounce of humanity can go leaps and bounds).


Overall, I try to avoid JFK (which is hard) so I minimise my use and time there as much as possible, whereas at LHR I really can waste quite a bit of time at and don;t mind arriving early... am I alone on this thought ???

So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
PDPsol
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:05 am

I live on the upper west side of Manhattan and took the AirTrain to JFK last month. I LOVED it; got to T-8 AA in 50 min. via the E train to Queens and thought it was very efficient and well-run. Is it as good as Heathrow Express? Well, no it's not; it doesn't have a 'one-seat-ride' capability and you can't check-in at Penn Station. But, it has VASTLY improved JFK as New York's premier gateway.

JFK is improving every year and, once AA finishes T-8/9 and B6 fix-up T-5/6, things will only get better. Plus NYC's Economic Development Corporation already has plans to extend the AirTrain to downtown Manhattan, ending up at the spectacular transport hub designed by Santiago Calatrava.

JFK is boosting its daytime passenger traffic thanks to B6 and has made massive capital improvements over the past 15 years.

PDPsol
 
JFKviaPHX
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:26 am

What JFK really needs is a good cleaning. I've been working there for three years and have seen many changes in my short time on the ramp. First was the completion of the IAT...a very nice job. One day I hope they finish the new AA terminal. It does look like they are pushing ahead fast now. T-6 made a lot of changes inside. Great salads  Wink/being sarcastic.
 
csavel
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:32 pm

JFK is improving, and Airtrain is a plus but since it is too late for Rjpieces *excellent* suggestion of a central terminal and satellites to get rid of those separate terminals (a bad relic of the sixties) then you should rebuild the Delta and American terminals from top to bottom. How you feel about JFK is largely based on what terminal you use. Last five times I've used JFK, I've flown on American, JetBlue thrice, Air France, KLM. American's terminal sucked. The "third world" look of American's terminal is true, but JetBlue's is more efficient, and Terminal's one and four are downright nice.

Airtrain is an improvement, extend it to LGA, downtown, and midtown, so you have a one seat ride. Make it the cost of a subway ride.

Encourage more domestic traffic, especially if Airtrain to LGA isn't going to happen. If airtrain is to happen to LGA, allow a person , after clearing customs and immigration to check in at JFK and go directly to another terminal or to LGA. Same for Domestic- Want to go from LA to Bangor Me, Check in all the way to Bangor at LAX, fly to JFK, take the special airtrain to LGA, and just clear security again, your bags will follow you. Crazy? Yes, but one can dream, can't one?

I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
UN_B732
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:39 pm

There are friendly people in NY. Certainly Enough to staff JFK  Smile. You just have to be selective enough.
-Mr. X
What now?
 
citationjet
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:27 pm

When we escort upscale groups to Europe, we never use NY as a gateway. Too dirty, too much hassle, the level of service, etc. We always use ORD, DFW, ATL. Being in JFK is more "foreign" than being in a nice new European terminal.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
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STT757
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:58 pm

"Airtrain is an improvement, extend it to LGA, downtown, and midtown, so you have a one seat ride. Make it the cost of a subway ride."

Impossible to lower the fare, unlike the NYC Subway system it's not Federally Subsidized. If they wanted to fund the Airtrain with Federal funding (thus lower fares) then the project would have been in competition with other NYC transit projects (Second Ave Subway, East Side access) which are WAY more high priority then providing rail service from the airport to Manhattan.

The Second Avenue Subway which is projected to cost approximetly $17 Billion will carry more people each day than every other transit system in the US "COMBINED"!

Compare that with the 5,000 or so daily travelers who use the Airtrain to get to Manhattan, most of which are not area residents.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
anthsaun
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:49 am

One more question on the issue...

Are there any airlines that should be kicked out of JFK?

and

Are there any airlines you think they should service JFK?

Thanks
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
airways6max
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:58 am

I would build additional runways, I would work to cut the number of delays, so that two or three-hour delays are not the norm.

I would rebuild and modernize the terminals and infrastructure so that they can handle huge volumes of passengers, using the formula of 500 747s arrive at once, multiplied by ten. Along with new terminals, there would be a rail system to move passengers from one terminal to the next quickly. Most importantly, I would want the airport to be aesthetically pleasing and architecturally significant. No more concrete blocks for terminals. I would turn the old TWA terminal into a museum and eating area. I might even buy an old 747, turn it into a restaurant and place it in front of the terminal, along with an old flying boat. I would plant a lot of trees and put in a lot of fountains and green areas. Basically, I would make JFK more aesthetically pleasing and far less congested.
 
anthsaun
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RE: How Would You Improve JFK?

Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:07 pm

Airways6max

I see your point and I agree with you. You know, that is what really makes Central Park so necessary for New Yorkers, it is aesthetic. So JFK needs it.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success