Dash8King
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Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 4:09 pm

Carrier to seek millions

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By PAUL WALDIE

00:00 EDT Thursday, April 22, 2004


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Air Canada is expected to seek hundreds of millions of dollars in damages from WestJet Airlines Ltd. in a lawsuit over allegations involving stolen computer files, sources said.

"We are not talking peanuts here, we are talking big money," a source close to the airline said.

Another source said he had heard that Montreal-based Air Canada will be seeking damages in the range of $400-million.

The airline is suing WestJet and two of its officials in Ontario over allegations they illegally accessed an employee website to obtain confidential information about flights on Air Canada and its subsidiary Zip.

Calgary-based WestJet has not responded to the allegations but it has put the employees, including a company co-founder, on paid leave of absence while it investigates. None of the allegations have been proven in court.

Air Canada did not specify damages when it filed the lawsuit on April 6, but it said it would be seeking compensation for "loss of revenue and profits." The airline has alleged that WestJet used the information to triple its market share in the past three years.

A source said Air Canada has hired a team of experts to calculate the damages. "Air Canada will say that you don't look at its profits to determine what it lost, you look at the incremental revenue it lost," the source said. Revenue allegedly earned by WestJet as a result of the information will also be part of the overall damage calculation, the source added.

© The Globe and Mail


I think 5 million is fair but 400 million? There is no way Wesjet profited that much from this scam.



 
frmyqr
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:35 pm

I'm sure 400M was a number that came to be for a good reason. If the judge seeing the case thinks that is too much money to cover damages then he would adjust that amount.
i'm from regina. Heard of it?
 
slawko
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:45 am

HAHA that would make Westjet Air Canada's biggest investor  Big grin
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
greasespot
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:05 am

Yeah and if you cannot stop losing money just sue your competition.......Next year aicanada will sue Jetsgo to turn a profit......after that...Canjet.....etc...

No pension problems...no layoffs.....this way...


 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
flug
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:55 am

If you can't beat them sue them!
 
Dash8King
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:45 am

Yeah and if you cannot stop losing money just sue your competition.......Next year aicanada will sue Jetsgo to turn a profit......after that...Canjet.....etc...

Well they have a reason to sue. However this was going on for less then a year so they have not profited that much. I thought 5 million was fair however.
 
beechnut
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:49 am

Well imagine if your employer's biggest competitor managed to log onto your network, and steal confidential business information that gave them a competitive advantage.

I would bet that the CEO would be some p*ssed off! If the allegations are proven true, then AC is entitled to damages. Whether 400m is too much depends on the actual damage done in terms of lost revenue.

If they are false, then there are going to be some very rich lawyers at the end of this.

I wonder why Westjet put the employees in question on leave if the allegations have no merit at all?

Mike
C-GTLM
 
Dash8King
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:52 am

Whether 400m is too much depends on the actual damage done in terms of lost revenue.

That is my point, there is no way they lost 400 million in revenue from this.
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:11 am

It is normal to sue for as much as possible, although in reality, if AC wins, they'll get much less than the $400 million, in my opinion. This will be an interesting case to follow.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
CanadaEH
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:16 am

I wonder how hard it's going to be to prove that amount of losses. I mean, lost revenue has been blamed on everything from the downturn in the economy to SARS, so how do you say, in black and white, that we lost $XX amount of money because of Westjet's alledged espionage? This is going to be a bitter fight, that's for sure.
EH.
 
Airbus Lover
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:23 am

"That is my point, there is no way they lost 400 million in revenue from this."

-How would you know?

" This is going to be a bitter fight, that's for sure."

-Yeah I think so too. Whether it is $5 mil or $400 mil it is up to the judge to decide. I am sure they will able to 'negotiate' and definitely end up less that $400 mil. If anything this does sound like big shit for Westjet this time around though.
 
Dash8King
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:40 am

That is my point, there is no way they lost 400 million in revenue from this."

-How would you know?


Westjets total revenue went up less then 400 million for the year. In fact it went up 200 million. However many of the routes added were planned before this espionage and they added many frequencies. However looking at that I would say they deserve more then 5 million.
 
Skywatcher
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:49 am

If you've ever gone through a divorce you'd realize that outrageously inflated claims are standard bargaining tactics.
 
lymanm
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:59 pm

"Westjets total revenue went up less then 400 million for the year. In fact it went up 200 million. However many of the routes added were planned before this espionage and they added many frequencies. However looking at that I would say they deserve more then 5 million."

The figure does not derive from WJ revenue, but potentially lost AC revenue. The fact that WJ's total revenue did not equal 400 million is irrelevent.
buhh bye
 
Airbus Lover
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:29 pm

I second Lymanm.

It is really hard to calculate loss. I mean WJ could be changing their schedules according to the information they received from AC etc etc...

And AC's loss of revenue may not necessarily equate WJ's rise.
 
Leskova
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:13 pm

Also, the amount that AC sues for most likely includes something for the fact that, by this espionage, WJ essentially had no (or a lot lower) risk while opening new routes: opening new routes is always a risk, some new routes make it, some don't - yes, an airline does market research, but there's always a margin of error in that...

... and that margin of error is certainly larger than the one that you'll find in your main competitors passenger numbers.

What WJ did, if in fact they did it, was use AC as a form of insurance, only without paying any premiums - and if AC can prove that WJ did this, then I think they are entitled to way more than 5 million.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
astral
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RE: Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:38 am

This court case is quite interesting and different.
First - Ask yourself and all those ex-CP and ex-AC employee, is that illegal to access the site ?? The answer is NO. So the first basic issue is - it is legal to take information from the site, and it is not 'stealing'.
Second - How you do determine how many times you access the site is 'wrong' ?? There was no rules, no limit to the number of access an employee can take. So second issue is - it is 'acceptable' regardless the number of access.
Third - Its that illegal for that employee to use the information for his own profitable gain, and profitable gain for a third party (i.e. Westjet). The answer is very likely a 'Yes'. So now we can set a base of winning the case in its basic form.
The court should then determine what to charge. Air Canada must show that they were being 'damaged' by this illegal transfer of data. They must justify the so call 'damages' is the correct amount, and must not based on how much the third party (i.e. Westjet) profitied.
The biggest challenge for AC is to show 'damages'. which actually could review many commerical secrets !! Much worse than lossing the booking data. Interesting to see how far that would go.

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