FoxBravo
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Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:40 am

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040426/sfm158_1.html

It's not much of a surprise about CO's 737s, which seemed overdue for the blended winglets, but I wasn't expecting to see 757s with winglets. Should be one fine looking airplane!
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Bobs89irocz
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:44 am

I agree, should look pretty sweet. Sure the winglets will help out in the long run.
 
nycfuturepilot
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:47 am

I was wondering when they were going to get them. Do any 757s have them now?
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:47 am

I had no idea that Boeing was even working on winglets for the 757. Talk about making a terrific looking aircraft look even better! I can't wait.  Big thumbs up
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
iluv2pilot
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:51 am

There are no 757's currently flying that have winglets. These will be the first and CO will help Boeing get the required certification. I find it ironic that CO and Boeing are doing this considering the 757 will not longer be produced. Just points out that CO plans on flying theirs for some time. They need to recoup the cost with fuel savings.
 
COEWRNJ
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:54 am

Nycfuturepilot
I don't think anyone else has the winglets on the 757, as it states that CO is the launch customer for the 757 with winglet project.

Also it states that the 757 w/ winglets will enter service in June of 2005, but does anyone know when the 738's w/ winglets will enter service? If the product is already developed, it wouldn't make sense to wait over a year to install something that would lower fuel burn. Especially when oil prices are so high.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:55 am

Perhaps the winglets on the 757s will eliminate the wingtip vortexes the 757 is known for. The 757 'heavy', from what I understand, has to have greater distance between other aircraft on final approaches because of the vortexes. But I agree...that should be one handsome looking bird once the winglets are installed. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
codc10
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:00 am

I got some exclusive pics:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ignatiy Savranskiy



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ignatiy Savranskiy



hehe...
 
COEWRNJ
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:01 am

CODC10
You beat me to it.  Smile
 
NIKV69
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:05 am

Once again Gordon Bethune shows why he is the man!

Bethune 2004!

Those 757s should look nice!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:07 am

Bethune 2004!

Hmm, interesting proposition.

I'm a Bush supporter... but if Bethune ran as an independent-- hell yeah I'd vote for him  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
NIKV69
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:11 am

I support BUSH too, but Gordon is my man! I love his video before you take off!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
warren747sp
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:13 am

CODC10
Why do you post picture of the TU plane instead of a B757?
747SP
 
mattg21iah
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:14 am

Its about time CO thought about winglets. I agree with everyone that the 757 is going to look awesome!
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:14 am

That's great - now we will see more narrow body jets flying longer distances... we need more widebodies  Sad
 
Trvlr
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:24 am

A good decision for Continental, considering their (relatively) extensive long-haul 757 and transcon 737 operations.

Aaron G.
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:27 am


Warren747sp -

Because the TU always looked like a 757 with winglets!
 
warren747sp
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:32 am

Close, but not quite. Anyway I think the 757 will look like crap with the winglets not like the 737 which looks gorgeous with it.
747SP
 
SNATH
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:04 pm

In my own humble opinion the 757 with winglets will be sex on wings!!!!!

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
Tarantine
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:12 pm

Just curious, why did'nt boeing put them on production 757s in the first place? I mean, the 757s are still being produced. Also, if the blended winglets can reduce fuel burn by 5%, why are they not on current production 767-300, 777 and 717s? Did boeing just relize that winglets actually have a purpose? Probably not since the 747-400 has them.
 
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STT757
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:14 pm

The Winglets on CO's 757s will open up even more Trans-Atlantic routes for CO's 757 fleet, for example..

Berlin, Hamburg, Lyon etc..

Also the 737-800 with Winglets operating for Air Mike probably will greatly increase performance on existing routes like the Island Hopper and Guam-Cairns, also the extended range brings more Pacific Destinations within CO Mike's reach from Guam.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Thrust
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:21 pm

This is a real surprise. Didn't expect the 757s to get them, though the 737NGs were definently in mind as possiblities. Think AA or DL will give their 738s winglets? Why doesn't Continental give their 739s winglets?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
Cory6188
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:23 pm

Do you think we will see more Transatlantic routes with the winglets due to the increased performance? It would be great if CO could expand their Transatlantic network even more.
 
Thrust
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:27 pm

Yes, I think so. The winglets will slightly extend the range of the 757s, so I expect Continental to take full advantage of this internationally. Wonder if AA will also give their 757s winglets now that they intend to use them more internationally?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
777gk
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:34 pm

737-800s are used, in general, on the longest average stage lengths of our entire 737 fleet, and therefore would be ideal to test the economics of such an arrangement with. The word is that they will eventually be applied to the remainder of the fleet incrementally, since we do not expect the results of the trials to be anything less than favorable, based on the track record of in-service 737NG's with winglets.

Interestingly, let me refer to a post I had on this nearly a year ago, obviously this was under consideration for quite some time. Also may explain why 737-900s are not part of the initial set of aircraft to be fitted with winglets.

Username: 777gk
From United States, joined Jun 2000, 1102 posts, RR: 53
Posted Thu May 29 2003 00:34:53 UTC+1 and read 1048 times.
A year or so ago, Continental was toying with the idea of getting winglets for a cadre of 737-800s, a dedicated transcontinental/long-haul fleet, but the problem is that we operate the 738 on the full spectrum of routes, and a typical day for one of our -800s could include a few short hauls followed by a transcon, with the short hauls negating any fuel burn benefit on the long haul segment. It seems Alaska falls into this same catch-22.

I was under the impression that additional tanks could be fitted into the holds of the 739 to give it transcontinental range. The idea was offered to Continental way back when, but was declined since a route requiring such capacity would more than likely be operated by a 757. The -900 was purchased for higher-density short hauls, and that seems to be the way Boeing designed it. Alaska may be pushing the limits a bit, but this certainly is a testament to the legendary versatility and flexibility of the Boeing 737 family.



 
QF744
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:40 pm

Thrust,
I don't think any 739s have winglets? Anyone know if they do.
Also, dont forget there are a couple of 727s out there with winglets, so to have them on any plane in the boeing range wouldn't suprise me.
Great iniative though!
QF744
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE UPPER DECK
 
Thrust
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:51 pm

DL used to have several 727-200s with winglets. It shocks me why the 739 doesn't get winglets. Is it not an -NG as well?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
CcrlR
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:55 pm

This is like girls getting boob jobs cause they see Britney Spears with them. Big thumbs up

Aviation partners Boeing has something about it on their website. They have it for the 757 CO but now they need one for the 767-300ER(They could just use the 767-200ER instead for CO!!!)


Why doesn't Continental give their 739s winglets?
They don't have a type certificate for the 900 version(Aviation Partners and it's Boeing affiliate). They only have it for the Hawker 800, Gulfstream II-SP, 737 variants 300,700,and 800.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:57 pm

Is it not an -NG as well?

yes, it is
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:04 pm

Given NWs attitude of "flying aircraft into the ground," can we expect them to retrofit their fleets? A 5% savings over the next decade or so would be a tremendous reduction of their bottom-line, would it not?
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:12 pm

In my own humble opinion the 757 with winglets will be sex on wings!!!!!

LOL!! You said it!  Laugh out loud  Big thumbs up  Laugh out loud Big grin



I can't wait for the wingleted 757s, good lord those will be the sweetest looking flying machines to take to the skies. The 73G already looks amazing with winglets, and by itself, that plane isn't all that attractive without them. But the 757?  Nuts
 
Gnomon
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:21 pm

Has there been any public word on the expected cost per aircraft of buying, installing and maintaining the winglets?

I know there has been discussion at length, both here and elsewhere, about how long the winglets would take to pay for themselves in cost savings. I think I read that, if they were deployed in the long-haul/transcon environment, the pay-off would be rather quick.

The large-scale move toward retrofitting at Southwest certainly indicates some faith in winglets' ability to provide significant cost savings.

I don't expect CO to conclude anything except they're worth their weight in, well, graphite composite material and aluminum.
 
Bronko
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:22 pm

Anyone know if the testing and certification will be done at BFI? AP has a facility there.
Jet City Aviation Photography
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:02 pm

Just heard from a source in CO that 738 installation will take place in CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO, starting in July.

One 752 will be used for a six month certification program, starting in the fall. Hopefully it will be based out of BFI .. The first four aircraft are planned ready for traffic June 1, 2005.

- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
ND
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:18 pm

(speculation)

Perhaps if CO decides to buy the 7E7, it could eventually replace the transatlantic 757 routes and CO would put those 757s on high density transcon routes.

(/speculation)
ND - Hated By Many, Confronted By None
 
pilot kaz
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:43 pm

wow, cant wait to see them on the 757, gonna be great!
-
 
A340Spotter
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:43 pm

If the savings of 5% on the 757s is accurate, then yes, the odds are that CO will start adding a couple more cities in Eastern Europe from EWR.

ND, speculation aside, the 738s will be used for the transcon routes more than the 757s in order to free up transatlantic capacity needs. The 7E7 would be a nice addition, but not likely with the age of our current fleet, at least in the near future...

Jeffrey
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
phollingsworth
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:59 pm

The most probable reason that the 757's don't have winglets is that the old style, non-blended, actually produce a fair amount of interference drag. This is mitigated to a large extent by the blending. This is what DL found, on their 727s. The winglets did wonders for the long range missions, but were fairly heavy (hence really creamed payload on short range missions), and required an investment that was greater than the residual value of the airframe.

Also the 757 wing is designed to fit into some tight places, i.e., many places where the 727 went. This may not be a problem for CO. As for putting winglets on 737-300ERs, I would imagine that if these were retrofitted you would see the 767-400 wingtips being used.

On wake vortices, are large portion of this stems from the flaps. So while winglets will have some effect you will still get a large vortex coming from the outboard edge of the outboard flaps.
 
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STT757
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:00 pm

I wonder if they will test the Winglets on Air Mike's 737-800s, they have some long segements and operate out of small Atoll air fields.

Besides all the new Trans-Atlantic route possibilities from EWR a blended wing 757 opens up, what about IAH?..

Deeper into South America?..

And how about something like IAH-Kona, looks to be about 3,800 miles.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
ND
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:53 pm

A340spotter,

As someone who seems like he is involved in CO affairs, have you heard of any officials within CO explicitly or even hinting at their (non)favorability of purchasing the 7e7 in the future?

The reason I ask this is because it is rumored that an American carrier wants to be a launch customer and I had strong intuitions that Continental would be that American carrier.
ND - Hated By Many, Confronted By None
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:52 am

'''The reason I ask this is because it is rumored that an American carrier wants to be a launch customer and I had strong intuitions that Continental would be that American carrier.'''

Representatives for SkyTeam are currently in SEA discussing the 7E7 with Boeing .. The American carrier may be DL.



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
codc10
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:15 am

I would have a hard time believing it's going to be DL, given their financial state and already massive fleet of 757s and 767s, only a fraction of which are approaching age in which a replacement should be acquired. I think Grinstein wants to maintain status quo for a while while everything is evaluated, then tweak the operation using existing assets, much like he is and has been doing already. Delta has a pretty good operation, but, more so than other carriers, in my opinion, they need to trim the fat.

Continental, on the other hand, cancelled remaining orders for 767 aircraft, for one to halt deliveries since they weren't planning on growing capacity, but also I'd speculate to wait around for the 7E7. Deliveries would be at a time CO will resume expansion in long-haul markets, and this aircraft fits right into their fleet plan and long-term goals. I'm sure Gordon is going to want to get a major deal done with Boeing by the time he retires as CEO this coming December, perhaps to leave a final imprint on the company as his illustrious tenure closes.

NW is a candidate as well, but I don't know if I can really see it, especially with forthcoming A330-200 deliveries.

It all remains to be seen, but I'd put my money on Continental being the North American launch of the 7E7.
 
Greg
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:15 am

I posted in another topic...it has been stated to the press that either American or Northwest would be the first customer...but not necessarily the launch customer.
 
gigneil
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:50 am

Who cares if it looks nice or not? Blended winglets will substantially improve CO's 757 services to South America and Europe.

The 739 is intended as a short-haul plane. Blended winglets would hamper that role.

The 737-900X would likely have them.

N
 
scottysair
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:18 pm

My guess that would be perfect to them with CO of new winglets with every of those aircraft. Are you think about anything else with Continental Airlines of new winglets?
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:33 pm

"I had no idea that Boeing was even working on winglets for the 757."

Techincally, Boeing isn't. Aviation Partners Boeing is. Of course, they will work with Boeing engineers to certify the aircraft, but the design work is APB.

"Also it states that the 757 w/ winglets will enter service in June of 2005, but does anyone know when the 738's w/ winglets will enter service?"

Will probably be end of the year, or early next year. As 737-800s are already certified with winglets, that won't be an issue. The only issue will be when CO can rotate the aircraft out of operation in order to have the winglets installed.

"I'm a Bush supporter... "

SAY IT ISN'T SO! I might have to remove you from my respected users list now. . .  Wink/being sarcastic

"Why doesn't Continental give their 739s winglets?"

As already mentioned, CO uses their -900s on shorter routes than the -800s. OTOH, the models use the same wing, so certification would not take too long. As of yet, though, there isn't really a need. If the 737-900X ever gets launched, it will have the winglets as standard equipment.

Regards,

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
mikephotos
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:37 am

ok, here's the "real" exclusive photo  Smile

http://rockawayreef.netfirms.com/co757winglets.jpg

Mike
 
UAMAYBACH1239
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:34 am

The 737-900 currently operating falls more or less in this group:
732-735-736-739 short hauls. Adding winglets will be adding weight,
which would burn more fuel.
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
mikephotos
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:22 am

One of the routes CO has the 737-900 on is EWR-CUN. That's 4+ hours, a fairly long "short haul".

Michael
 
AA737-823
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RE: Winglets For CO 737s And 757s!

Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:18 am

And IAH-Florida... that's 2+ hours.