diatraveler
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Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:36 am

Will the 7E7 and especially with All Nippon (Star Alliance) being the launch customer help Den receive non-stop NRT service? I'm tired of having to connect in LAX, SFO or SEA. A non-stop would be nice, especially with customs in Denver.
 
gigneil
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:41 am

I would think with the 7E7 ANA would be foolish not to offer Denver service...

United feed could certainly fill a smaller plane.

N
 
MAH4546
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:25 am

I think the 7E7 opens five markets in particular for non-stop Tokyo service: Boston, Denver, Miami, Philadelphia, and Phoenix. And I don't think ANA would have a hard time filling a 7E7 from any of them.
a.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:44 am

I'm not up on it.... would a 7E7 be allowed to use both NRT runways (if not for takeoffs, then landings, on a permanent basis)??
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
gigneil
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:48 am

I don't THINK so, but possibly.

N
 
quickmover
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:54 am

A 777 can't make DEN-NRT? Why hasn't UAL tried this?
 
iowa744fan
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:58 am

Quickmover,
Well, before the new 16,000 foot runway was built, in I believe that there were considerable weight restrictions to get a 777 off the ground and still have enough fuel for that route. However, with the new runway, I am not sure. I thought that Denver built it to encourage and get those longer and heavier flights to operate into and out of Denver. What is the longest flight out of Denver? Is it still the daily Lufthansa flight to Frankfurt? Do they operate a 744 or 343 on that?
 
UAMAYBACH1239
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:02 am

I think that would be a great route also, but when UA gave up LAX-KIX shortly after ANA joined star UA hinted that they would like to make SFO primarily a pac rim hub, and some flts. out of LA.

They wanted Denver to be more of a transfer hub. Even in LH case flying AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA-DEN only after LH went public on flying direct to DEN, did they give assistance.
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
quickmover
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:05 am

"What is the longest flight out of Denver? Is it still the daily Lufthansa flight to Frankfurt? Do they operate a 744 or 343 on that?"

Iowa,
About a week ago, it was a 747.
 
DIA
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:46 am

""What is the longest flight out of Denver? Is it still the daily Lufthansa flight to Frankfurt? Do they operate a 744 or 343 on that?"

It was an A342 somedays, but mostly an A343. Now it is a 744.


7E7 should open up several new markets to Tokyo. . .especially DEN.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
gigneil
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:49 am

Its not so much that a 777 can't make it, it can.

Its more that there's insufficient traffic.

N
 
rjpieces
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Servi

Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:56 am

Is there a large market between Denver and Tokyo....?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
gigneil
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:14 am

There isn't a large market, but there is a market.

That's why a 7E7 could easily open the route.

DEN is UA's second strongest hub in terms of feed, and a large and bustling high-tech center.

Perhaps not enough for a 777, but probably for a 7E7.

N
 
Sean-SAN-
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:21 am

Hopefully it will also make SAN-LHR profitable again.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Servi

Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:26 am

There isn't a large market, but there is a market.
Perhaps not enough for a 777, but probably for a 7E7.


I agree. Given the fact that a 7E7-800 seats 200 pax (3 class) whereas the 772ER seats 300 pax (3 class), it would be much easier to sustain the route with a 7E7. This may be true of many trans-pac city pairs.

Other routes the 7E7 could open up from DEN-



(distance nm) (time hh:mm)
DEN-NRT (5029 nm) (8:54)
DEN-HKG (6505 nm) (11:36)
DEN-SIN (7881 nm) (14:04)
DEN-SYD (7254 nm) (12:57)
DEN-KUL (7872 nm) (14:03)

These are obviously hypothetical, but it does show you the versatility of the 7E7

Regards,
DFW

[Edited 2004-04-28 00:27:38]
 
terminalc
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Servi

Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:44 am

The 7E7 is going to do what airplanes should do: carry to people to where they want to go from where they want to leave. I personally cannot wait. I'm tired of hopscotching all over the Pacific Rim going through hubs that I care nothing about.
 
gigneil
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:54 am

DEN-SIN (7881 nm) (14:04)

Not sure where you got this number, but this is like a 20 hour flight.

N
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:01 am

He's just using the GCM to calculate flight time based on groundspeed.... instead of still-air like it should be.  Smile
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Servi

Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:06 am

He's just using the GCM to calculate flight time based on groundspeed.... instead of still-air like it should be.

Yeah stupid move, you learn something new everyday  Smile.
 
ATLhomeCMH
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:23 am

Yes, it will most definitely help DEN...according to an article in today's USA Today Money section...

http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2004-04-26-boeing_x.htm

and I quote, Believing that airlines will purchase 3,000 midsize jets in the next 20 years, Boeing designed the 200-seat 7E7 as a low-maintenance, fuel-sipping workhorse. Its optimal mission: opening long-distance routes between less-traveled destinations, such as St. Louis to South Korea.

The larger interior airports of the United States (SLC, DEN, STL, DFW, ORD, etc) will be greatly served by such a flawlessly designed aircraft.

"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:37 pm

From what I've read, the 7E7-8 (which I believe NH has ordered) will have a range over 8,000 nautical miles. That is far more than enough for NH to fly from NRT and KIX to DEN easily in both directions non-stop.
 
phollingsworth
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:57 pm

Based upon my quick calculations. The 16,000 ft runway increases the maximum takeoff weight for a 772ER on a +27 degree day by ~20,000 pounds.
http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/777.htm
Note, the full 16,000 ft is useless as the aircraft becomes tire-speed limited (you cannot interpolate Boeing's charts so you need to use 6,000 ft.). This translates into ~15-20,000 lb payload increase, not insubstantial. Given UAL's current seat count, there would be little restriction in the number of passengers carried with the 12K ft runway, but no extra cargo. The 16K ft runway allows ~20,000 lbs of cargo to be added.

The 7E7 will probably be similarly restricted.
 
ORDagent
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:08 am

I doubt that DEN will see pacific rim flights for quite some time. UA/Star Alliance et al are happy feeding traffic through LAX or SFO and will for quite some time as they will want to fill those A380s. I know all you Denverites are dyeing for more intl long haul service! DEN is a great airport with the capacity and infrastructure for such service. I just think time will tell particularly how low the load factor can be to make the 7e7 (hope they call it the 808!) will be to break even.
 
Guest

RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:13 am

If there was a sufficient market DEN-NRT would NH or UA not be flying a 767 on the route
 
UAMAYBACH1239
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:54 am

Im sure a direct flt. out of DEN would be decent loads, other things to look at is cargo restrictions, other alliance members flying pac rim passengers to DEN, and last SFO and LAX can fill planes with passengers, freight, and mail
daily with no restrictions.

LAX is prime obviously because of sea level, I think SEA would see more action be DEN.
a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
 
gigneil
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:53 am

If there was a sufficient market DEN-NRT would NH or UA not be flying a 767 on the route

Its a fairly tough trip for a 767 against those winds. The 767 is just not a popular transpacific aircraft except from YVR.

Many one-stops exist on 777s between DEN and NRT.

N
 
Guest

RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:57 am

yeh i forgot DEN was high altitude too
 
SailorOrion
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:45 pm

Any aircraft besides the 747 (and maybe 777) can use the shorter runway at NRT. I landed on it with a A340-300 a couple of weeks ago. Pretty nice brake action you get there.

SailorOrion
 
MAH4546
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:57 pm

Many one-stops exist on 777s between DEN and NRT.

Many? Ever since United ended the DEN-SEA 777 leg of the SEA-NRT flight last year, there has been none.
a.
 
DCAYOW
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:12 pm


The Boeing 7E7 is a direct response to how Boeing sees the market evolving the Terminalcalc explained, more direct services to where people want to go.

Possible 7E7 routes:

SAN-NRT-with network beyond NRT
SAN-Europe hub with network beyond the Europe hub (LHR, AMS, CDG, or AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA)

San Diego is the largest metropolitan statistical area without service to either Europe or Asia.

Retorne ao céu...
 
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PW100
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RE: Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?

Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:54 am

SAN-NRT-with network beyond NRT
SAN-Europe hub with network beyond the Europe hub (LHR, AMS, CDG, or F.RA)


That's ironically funny. You just described how the 7E7 will help the large hubs and thereby the A380 . . .  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

If any plane would bring trans pacific to DEN, it would be the 7E7 [if UA is still around by then].


PW100
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