globetrotter
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SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:58 pm

SAA #209 makes a stop at SID on the route from CPT to ATL. The stop is for one hour--01:55-02:55. What do passengers do during this stop? Are they allowed to exit the plane, or must they remain aboard during the stop? Is there any way to get a Cape Verde passport stamp, or are passengers not technically entering the country? Thanks for your help.

Globetrotter
 
Moolies
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:03 pm

At one stage they were allowed of the plane. To my knowledge, they are no longer allowed off the plane.I also dont think it is a stop from cpt to atl. it is from jnb-atl.
 
ssides
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:09 pm

I don't know what they do, but it seems to me that deboarding and then reboarding a 744 would be a huge waste of time.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
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airportugal310
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:11 pm

Somebody was telling me the other day that, at least in the US of A, passengers are not allowed on board an aircraft while it is being re-fueled....

However, I do not think this is the case in the JAA run world because I was on an A340 while it was being refueled...

The theory is of course, if something goes wrong, no one gets hurt. Good theory!
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FoxBravo
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:52 pm

In January of 2002 I was not allowed off the plane during the stop at SID en route from JNB to JFK. I'm not normally one to bitch about the minor inconveniences of travel, but to be honest, it was fairly unpleasant. It was the middle of the night, halfway through a long and bumpy flight, so everyone was somewhat groggy and annoyed at having been woken up. Plus, we had already been delayed significantly leaving JNB due to the frisking of every single passenger prior to boarding. I had been looking forward to stretching my legs a bit during the stop, but we had to remain seated--not only that, we had to put all our carry-on luggage on our laps so they could do a security check of the overhead bins because 1 or 2 people had gotten off the plane at Sal. And finally, the stop ended up taking quite a bit longer than the scheduled hour, adding further to our delay. Not a fun way to end an otherwise fantastic vacation in South Africa.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Sabena332
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:58 pm

In 1997, passengers were allowed to get off the plane as the following picture shows:


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Photo © Christopher Sundseth



Here are two pictures from the year 2002, seems that all passengers have to stay in their seats nowadays:


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Photo © Julian Whitelaw
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Julian Whitelaw



Patrick
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jtamu97
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:05 am

I was on the flight in July of 2002 and we were not allowed to deplane. It was one of the worst experiences I have had on an airplane. It was about 1 am and when we landed we had to remain standing instead of sitting and have all of our baggage in our seats. Plus, it was hot as they left some of the doors open for trash, and the security guys to get on. I was in Business class and talked to the new crew as they were arriving and one of the pilots put his bag in an overhead bag. WELL, the security guys had no clue about this bag. We were delayed another 30 minutes because they had to bring the pilot down, who was pissed to verify this was his bag. The bad thing was he had the standard black hardcase with stickers all over it and the SAA crew tag. So if you are taking this flight just be prepared for an hour of Chaos.

Later.
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jtamu97
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:07 am

Oh, did not prrof read....He put his bad in the overhead bin..Sorry
Propeller, we don't need no stinkin propeller
 
JGPH1A
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:10 am

I flew JNB-SID-JFK in '92 (I think it was), and you were allowed to get off at SID - not much to do, crappy little airport, and at 2am what little there was was shut. There was a TAAG IL62 parked just behind us, in from Havana.

There was a story that at one time during the Namibian independence "struggle", the SAA flight JNB-WDH-SID-AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA and the Cubana flight HAV-SID-LAD would arrive in SID at approximately the same time, and that an arrangement had to be made that only the pax of the flight that arrived first would be permitted to disembark, because fights had erupted in the past between white Namibian farmers headed to Frankfurt and Cuban soldiers heading to Angola to support the SWAPO guerillas - I don't know how true this is, but its a good story.
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FoxBravo
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:11 am

Sabena332, I'm pretty sure the change was a direct result of 9/11. Unfortunately I don't think SID has the facilities to perform the required security checks for two full 747s at the same time.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
FoxBravo
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:18 am

Jtamu97, LOL, sounds like your experience was similar! But if you thought it was bad in business class, just imagine what a mess it was back in economy...

In any event, I travel a lot, but that flight stands out in my mind as one of the worst. I hope things improve now with the stop in Dakar instead of Sal, but I'm not terribly optimistic.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Sabena332
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:21 am

By the way, I just saw in Amadeus that some things changed: The JNB-CPT-SID-ATL flight is now operated by an Airbus A 340-600 (return flight without a stop in SID) and the JNB-JFK flight makes a stop in DKR nowadays (return flight nonstop, operated by an Airbus A 340-300).

Jtamu97: Please use the "Edit post" function next time.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
jtamu97
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:24 am

Patrick, will do, I was looking for something like that. I thought I had heard that the stop in SID form CPT had been taken away. Wow, I bet that is nice because every second counts on that flight back.

Later.
Propeller, we don't need no stinkin propeller
 
andz
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:42 am

I flew JNB-JFK in 2000 and JNB-ATL in 2001 and we got off both times, there was no movement till they mentioned that the terminal is a smoking area then there was a stampede to get off!
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
citationjet
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:53 am

In Dec 2002, we were NOT allowed off the plane at SID.
As for refueling with pax on board, it is allowed in US and Europe. There are conditions such as cabin crew must be on board, the seat belt sign must be off (to allow quick exit), and no ground equipment at the door openings.
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PA110
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:19 am

Attn All... I've flown this route many times over the years on SA, E8 and WO Here's the scoop... SID airport does not have a transit lounge. They have a tacky little departure lounge, which doubles as a transit lounge as long as there are no other active flight operations at the same time. Occasionally, several airlines happen to transit SID roughly around the same time on certain days (most notably SU). The rule of thumb is: Whoever lands first, gets to use the lounge. Passengers from all other subsequent flights must remain on board.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
AF022
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:42 am

i have flown SID-SA - New York">JFK a few times on SA, and the JNB-SA - New York">JFK passengers do not get off. in fact, most of them are sound asleep. once i was the only passenger in business boarding at SID and the FA had to do a little song-and-dance safety demonstration for me.

many airlines refuel with pax onboard. i'm sure that KE's flights SA - New York">JFK-ICN via SA - Alaska">ANC and ET's flight SA - New Jersey">EWR-FCO-ADD do not involve deplaning passengers at the refueling stop.
 
aviationwiz
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:09 am

Lets see here:

First time I did JNB-SID-JFK in 2002, no problems at all, they just refuel the plane, no one gets on or off, & they run through a quick security check of the carry-on to make sure there are no un-needed carry on bags that could contain weapons, this is done jointly by SAA Security & the Sal authorities. Now with the stop being in Dakar, it is being done jointly by SAA security & Senegal authrorities.

Second time was in 2003, JNB-DKR-JFK, same security check, except this time, passengers got off at Dakar and got on from Dakar to go onto New York.

Both stops were about an hour as planned.

As far as delays because they had to frisk everyone in JNB, this is normal procedure done by SAA & ACSA (Airports Company South Africa) for flights to the US, they hand check all luggage (carry-on & checked) and they search each person. Searching checked luggage was also the norm before the US started requiring it. The flight may have been delayed because of people coming to the airport late, or staying in the bar too long & didn't realize that there was security to go through.

SAA & ACSA offers the best air security I have ever seen, hands down. I have not seen El Al, but as far as I know, El Al's number one, and SAA/ACSA may as well be second.
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warren747sp
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:14 am

It is also a non-stop by 747-400 equipment from JFK-JNB. Only need to refuel on the return which is the same as A340-600.
But the refueling experience is a miserable one for all as you are not allowed off the plane and it is very early in the morning.
747SP
 
SA7700
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:17 am

Currently SA211 (JNB-ATL) and SA209 (JNB-CPT-ATL) have stopovers in SID.

I went out on SA209 in December 2003, from JNB. We refueled in CPT, where the bulk of the passengers also got on. Passengers that boarded in JNB, were not allowed to get off the plane, even in CPT.

Onwards to SID for a fuel-stop. We were not allowed to get off, due to security issues. During this period on the ground, all passengers had to be "reconciled" with their handluggage, otherwise it would be removed from the cabin by security guards.

It's not very pleasant do deal with "luggage issues" in the middle of the night, especially when there are a lot of cranky people around. However, I would sincerely not classify SA209 as my worst flight. Actually I enjoyed it very much...
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
sw733
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:19 am

I flew JNB - JFK in 1999 and was able to get off in Cape Verde. Not too much there in the middle of the night but...it was neat to see a country most other Americans haven't even heard of!
 
Flyer732
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:06 am

Everyone keeps saying the stop was horrible, I didn't care one way or another. I woke up when we landed, got my bag and sat there for 30 mins with my bag in my lap. Then loaded it back in the overhead and sat for 15 mins before we left.


And as far as fueling while pax are on board - do it all the time. As long as the cabin door is open and the jetbridge or stairs are on the aircraft it can be done.
 
airplanetire
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:20 am

I had a friend who flew ATL-SID-CPT (times of the year it was a stop both ways with the 744) and then JNB-SID-ATL last August. Like all of you have said, no one was allowed off of the plane, except for a crew change. She had no complaints though.

-Airplanetire
 
diesel33
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:45 pm

AF022...

Actually when taking KE to ICN with an intermediate stop in ANC, all passengers must disembark.

I arrived there taking OZ and saw that many airlines made their passengers disembark for the layover in ANC. (i.e. CX from YYZ, OZ from JFK. KE from EWR and JFK, CI from JFK, etc...)

-diesel33
 
globetrotter
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:09 pm

Thanks for all of your replies. You've been a big help.

Globetrotter
 
daumueller
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:33 pm

just for my understanding: why do they do a security check in SID when nobody gets onboard/offboard?
 
SA7700
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:58 pm

I may be wrong, but I've heard it's due to FAA regulations. Cabin crew do switches on SID.
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
FoxBravo
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Sat May 01, 2004 5:16 am

When I took that flight, my understanding was that they had to do the security check because a couple of people had disembarked at Sal. When I and other people said on this thread that no one was allowed off or on, we meant passengers in transit JNB to JFK/ATL)...the few people flying to/from Cape Verde obviously ARE allowed off/on.

Therefore they have to reconcile every piece of carry-on luggage with a continuing passenger to make sure that nothing had been left behind (i.e., unescorted). Made sense, but still a pain in the ass.

For those who haven't done it, the best way I can describe it is to compare it to what the cabin of a plane feels like when you've just reached the gate, and the door has been opened, but your row hasn't started moving yet. All the luggage is down from the overhead bins and piled on people's laps, the cabin is warm and stuffy because the engines are off, and it's generally unpleasant. The difference is, that usually only lasts for a couple of minutes, whereas at SID it's an hour or so--in the middle of the night! Plus, at the end of a flight people are usually happy and relieved to be at their destination, but at SID everyone is grumpy and dreading the prospect of another 7 hours of flying.

P.S.--Globetrotter, to answer your original question, no you can't get a Cape Verde passport stamp--unless of course you get off the plane and catch your onward flight another day. I'm a passport stamp junkie too, so that added further to my disappointment!  Smile

[Edited 2004-04-30 22:22:22]
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
Corpsnerd09
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Sat May 01, 2004 5:25 am

Expedia.com is selling non-stop SID - ATL on SA.

[Edited 2004-04-30 22:26:16]
If you really want to do it, you will find a way; if you don't, you'll make excuses.
 
SpdBrdConcorde
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Tue May 04, 2004 8:28 am

I flew JNB-JFK in 1998 and we stopped at Sal...I almost forgot my jacket in the airport restaurant realising after i had boarded...so just before leaving I was running from the plane to the terminal and back across to the 744...WOW I will not forget the scene...Me and the 747-400 in on the tarmac at 2 am...On the way back the flight was nonstop to JNB...I think 14+ hrs..hmmmm Those were the days... Innocent:D
 
andz
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Tue May 04, 2004 6:56 pm

SAA have traffic rights at SID so passengers do indeed get off or on.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
aviationwiz
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Tue May 04, 2004 9:50 pm

SAA have traffic rights at SID so passengers do indeed get off or on

That's news to me, when did they get traffic rights at SID?

EDIT: I always thought that they only had landing rights, not traffic rights...

[Edited 2004-05-04 14:51:35]
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FoxBravo
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RE: SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop

Wed May 05, 2004 12:26 am

I believe they have always had fifth-freedom rights between Cape Verde and the U.S., at least since the current flights started in the early 90s. Even though it is possible to fly nonstop eastbound from JFK to JNB, the JFK-JNB flight generally stopped at SID at least one day a week before 9/11, presumably just to serve the U.S.-Cape Verde market--just as the current eastbound flight stops in Dakar several days a week, not out of technical necessity but for pax flying between the U.S. and Senegal. And of course they can carry passengers between South Africa and Cape Verde too.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire