mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Mon May 03, 2004 5:22 am

I just read an article in the Hindu Businessline that Alliance Air (CD), the subsidy of Indian Airlines (IC) will get A319 as replacements for the 732s

But one thing is not clear to me: Why did IC have to found a subsidy? Tax? Or something to to with the average fleet age (i.e. "phasing out the old 732 to a quasi-external company")?

Are there any plans / would it make sense to "remerge" them (since all CD's have IC Flight numbers), now that the 732s are phased out slowly? Can one actually book tickets with CD (everyone I know had a IC Ticket tith a 7xxx flight number, no one actually had an alliance air ticket with CD flight number)...

I just don't understand the logic and objectives and hope that someone can explain me!
Thanks!!
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
soaringadi
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RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Mon May 03, 2004 5:31 am

I think that Alliance maybe a Lcc for I.C.
If it ain't Boeing, I'm not going !
 
mrniji
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RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Mon May 03, 2004 5:35 am

I think that Alliance maybe a Lcc for I.C.

Definitely not. On some routes, both operate with same prices (as far I can recall now, can anyone confirm). Only different equipment (CD always 732, ic 320 or 300)
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
soaringadi
Posts: 452
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RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Mon May 03, 2004 5:37 am

Okay i'm sorry I was just trying to make some sense.... anyways I don't know much about those airlines...
If it ain't Boeing, I'm not going !
 
WindowSeat
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:01 am

RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Mon May 03, 2004 6:02 am



Hey soaring adi, you don't have to be sorry, it was just a hunch, right?

anyway, mrniji, I've wondered that myself. They had the old 732s from IC anyway, so why seperate them. Perhaps someone else knows.
btw, is your e mail not working, I e mailed you back and the mail was returned.

cheers


I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Mon May 03, 2004 5:30 pm

During my travels in India, I was told the following story by a co passenger of mine who happened to be working for IC.

The Government of India liberalized its civil aviation policy in the 1980s, allowing private people to start airlines. Many Airlines , notably East west, Dhamania, Jet air and Modiluft started operations, all flying B737-200s.

The idea behind these airlines going for B737-200s was that they could "poach" trained engineers and pilots from IC by offering higher salaries.
Many of these people therefore, lured by the higher pay, quit IC and joined these private airlines.

Soon these private airlines realized the difficulties of operating in India's (then) rather limited domestic market and ran into losses. All of them (wth the exception of Jet Airways) soon closed down. The pilots and engineers who had joined these carriers were out of jobs.

The Government of India (in a rather nice gesture) then decided to save the careers of these people by starting a new airline and hiring them. Alliance air thus came into being.

Maybe the better informed Indians here can confirm this.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Mon May 03, 2004 7:48 pm

Thanks, DIJKKIJK... sounds interesting and logical, the story. Still I guess there to be even some other reasons behind, too (since the years have proceeded). I was only wondering when, as you say,

The Government of India (in a rather nice gesture) then decided to save the careers of these people by starting a new airline and hiring them. Alliance air thus came into being

why IC did not 're-hire' the stuff under its own flagg, i.e. wht had the GOI found a 'new' Airline? Would that have made big difference than building a completely new airline?

Then: does IC benefit of CD's existence or does it make loss??

Waiting courisouly for reply, since I just don't really get the logic behind CD. Thanks to you, DIJKKIJK!
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Mon May 03, 2004 8:11 pm

"why IC did not 're-hire' the stuff under its own flagg, i.e. wht had the GOI found a 'new' Airline? Would that have made big difference than building a completely new airline?"



I think it had something to do with the fact that these pilots/engineers had actually quit IC and so they couldn't be taken back. They would either have to be taken in the juniormost position, which would be doing them injustice as they had actually served the airline for many years before quitting. The other option would have been to take them back in the same positions that they were in before they quit, which would have been doing injustice to the non-quitters who were more faithful to the airline.

Just my thoughts, I really would like that story confirmed , though.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
B747-437B
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Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Mon May 03, 2004 11:58 pm

CD employees make significantly lower salaries than IC employees. Simple as that! Big grin
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Tue May 04, 2004 3:03 am

CD employees make significantly lower salaries than IC employees. Simple as that!

Thanks for the info! But how does the Govt of India justify that?? They do the same work as IC workers, right (apart from shorter flights)?
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Tue May 04, 2004 3:56 am

But how does the Govt of India justify that??

They work for a different airline, which was the sole reason why they set up Alliance Air in the first place!  Smile
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
flyhigh@tom
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:58 pm

Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Tue May 04, 2004 4:10 am

Well i too have heard the same story from one of the IC engineers. When most of the private airlines closed down, the pilots were jobless and ofcourse the pilots union of IC would naturally resist if the "unfaithful" pilots were taken into the folds of IC again in the same rank and pay scale !!!

Regarding the pay parity btw IC and CD...hmmm, for the CD folks it was take it or leave it right ?!...and they get to operate equipment that is as old as...well leave it, i guess there is nothing newer than a B732 in CD!

By the way IC is NOT an All Airbus fleet, there still remains a B732 in IC colors. Saw it myself in MAA (Chennai) a couple of months back...hmm wonder if that is because the pilots of that plane remained loyal to IC  Smile/happy/getting dizzy and so were not shifted to CD  Big thumbs up

Cheers
Tom
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Tue May 04, 2004 4:20 am

By the way IC is NOT an All Airbus fleet, there still remains a B732 in IC colors

Did it operate for IC od CD?
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
flyhigh@tom
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:58 pm

RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Tue May 04, 2004 4:28 am

hmmm...good question...i have to accept that i do NOT know if the IC 732 was operating for IC or CD...i was in the international terminal viewing gallery taking shots of the a/cs at the gates when i saw this particular a/c. Pity though...at that time i ran out of memory on my Digi. :-(

Well CD was formed a looong time back. Would they still have an aircraft in IC colors?

Cheers
Tom

 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Tue May 04, 2004 4:39 am

Would they still have an aircraft in IC colors?

I strongly doubt (since even CD now has a slightly modified livery)

You're sure it wasn't a 320?
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Indian Airlines Subsidy Alliance Air - Why?

Tue May 04, 2004 4:48 am

There is one 732 still left in IC colors - cant remember which one it is though. No idea why, but I regularly see it sitting around at BOM.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada

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