JFKviaPHX
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:31 am

AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 11:06 am

I was watching the normal traffic landing on 13L and I see an AA A-300 hit the surface hard. It touched down hitting the left rear gear first and bounced back in the air a bit. The one problem was a tire broke loose. It rolled forward then slowed and bounced a bit under and behind the aircraft. The plane exited the runway and began taxing to the terminal under normal power. (I feel the crew didn't know what happened.)

The tire then exited the runway rolling about 50-60 mph and turned into the old TWA T-5. It then rolled behind a mostly full B6 terminal until it hit a baggage cart behind a UA 777. Very dangerous since it ended up almost in the same place it broke free except it was only a few feet form workers. When I left they were putting a new tire on the aircraft after replacing the broken part.

 
n9801f
Posts: 154
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 11:10 am

Was it a tire or a whole wheel that broke loose?
 
sq452
Posts: 993
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 11:10 am

hence, why these aircraft need to go in my opinion
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
Posts: 1311
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 11:10 am

Sounds like fun! A runaway wheel of any size is extremely dangerous. Fortunately, nobody was hurt..
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
JFKviaPHX
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:31 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 11:11 am

It was the front left tire of the rear left gear. It snapped off.
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 11:12 am

Good! Let not make let happening again with A300.
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 1:36 pm

SQ452, the A300's have to go because a tire came off? Are you serious????? Oh brother.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
AFROTC
Posts: 185
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 2:57 pm

no, they need to go because of the AA pilot's bad training lol(just kidding ofcourse)
We've Been Looking For You, United States Airforce, Cross Into The Blue!
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 3:16 pm

hehehe, yeah, the AA pilots were too hard on the brakes, just like they're too hard on the rudders, so the tire came off.  Big grin
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
PlaneviewNYC
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:46 pm

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 3:26 pm

Seems that if you're too rough with any part of the A300, said part is likely to fall off.
 
Alitalia7e7
Posts: 184
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 4:51 pm

Silly Questioin, but are the AA A300's heavier than a standard A300, as Airbus has added the Aluminium Skins added to the A300's to match the aluminium affect and consistancy across the AA fleet?
 
fritzi
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 2:34 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 5:02 pm

SQ452 said:

hence, why these aircraft need to go in my opinion.

Dont bother saying anything if you dont have anything worthwhile to add. Things break, it happens on all airliners. Obviously you have no idea about technical aspects of aircraft.

What about the 747s then, do they also need to go? C´mon, one dropped two freakin engines into Amsterdam!!!  Yeah sure
 
A340600
Posts: 3892
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 5:06 pm

Typical Amercian's immediately blame airbus Yawn,

As Alitalia7e7 said AA A300's are a lot heavier, for that allumminium effect, akes em look tatty too  Laugh out loud

Cheers

Sam Laugh out loud
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
Twistedwhisper
Posts: 689
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 5:20 pm

I used to not like the AA livery, but I have changed my mind... I think it looks cool... a bit 80's ish perhaps  Wink/being sarcastic

I was hit by a runaway tyre once, although I was inside my car the impact was servere, and so was the damages to my car... that was a truck tyre, speed about 30 mphs, I don't want to think about what would happen if it was speeding towards me at 100 mphs instead.... *brrr*  Wow!
Read between the lines.
 
T prop
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:33 pm

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 5:45 pm

"hence, why these aircraft need to go in my opinion"

You obviously know nothing about airplanes.


"Typical Amercian's immediately blame airbus"


Typical 12 year old kid response. BTW, what's an Amercian?


T prop.
 
User avatar
solnabo
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 6:57 pm

OMG.......a A300 in a windshear while landing!!! Big news in US!!!!!!!!!
Jeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhh  Insane

Michael//SE
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
VSGirl
Posts: 316
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 7:35 pm

I once saw an Airtours Boeing 767 land at EGKK a few years back. She landed very hard indeed and a wheel seemed to come loose. Rubber seemed to fly everywhere and the aircraft looked quite unstable...

What surprised me was the Captain brought her to a stand still, on the runway and the fire brigade attended. There was no fire or smoke and the aircraft taxied to stand about ten minutes later.

It was on the news that night (we are talking like 1997) never heard anything more of it…

Scary Stuff!

Kimberly
 
aussie747
Posts: 1005
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 7:48 pm

When the landing gear strut broke off of on a QF 743 in Rome back in 2000 did Qantas get rid of them all - NO .So why should AA get rid of the A300's?????
 
geoffm
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 8:01 pm

Saw them changing TWO burst tyres on a TG A300 last year... one which I was about to board with the same pilots that had just landed it! Maybe hit the deck hard, I don't know. This was at HKT.

Geoff M.
 
col
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 9:59 pm

The pax got off and walked away = Successful mission. Don't care whom made the plane.

I think we should all know by now that when we have an incident with an Airbus, or Boeing, we have the children on the site whom get involved. By not replying, the kids get tired and hopefully have a nap and forget about the topic, my two year old does!
 
warren747sp
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 10:08 pm

AT least the tail stayed on this time which attest to the strength of the A-300 on the ground! I think AA use it more like a freighter than passenger plane.
I go out of way not to fly this type with AA.
747SP
 
iluv2pilot
Posts: 88
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 10:38 pm

Go to www.ntsb.gov and look for the report sometime in the next few weeks.
 
4jaded
Posts: 246
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 10:44 pm

Wish I was there Love the drama of a good incident. Too bad they didn't throw the pax out of the plane via the slides LOL Nothing like a good SCAREBUS ride to get the old heart pumping !!! Everyone needs to take a pill these little adventures happen to all airlines in all types of planes all the time. However having worked for AA for 15 years /not anymore/ I can say two things about this incident that has come up in this post. First I am no big fan of the A300-600R it lifts a lot of freight and passengers but it basically is not the most reliable plane. Second we used to call them the REPAIRBUS and Scarebus for two reasons. They like to break down a lot and based upon the size of the fleet at AA and the number of flights this fleet takes daily as compared to other AA types it seems the Airbus has had more incidents, evacuations etc than any other type AA operates if taken as an overall percentage. That is just the facts !!! Sorry to burst everyone's Airbus bubble.
 
Guest

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 10:46 pm

Probably the dodgy mechanics at AA
 
4jaded
Posts: 246
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 10:54 pm

Well Roberta that may be some of the problem but the overall incidents are not the mechanics issue they are the planes. The MD-11's were also difficult to keep flying as they were just about as temperamental as the A300's but they sure had a lot less evacuations, dramas, etc....
 
Guest

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 10:58 pm

no i was just kidding.

but maybe the AA maitenance team think with a Boeing (as they have a lot of Boeing) way when repairng planes, which is not suitable for the A300. If you get what i mean.
 
4jaded
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:31 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 11:11 pm

Yes I do and that's true to some extent. Some airlines have better luck with certain types of planes than others. The mechanics just seem to "get it". When AA started to take on 737NG's they were having a real difficult time keeping them flying until they became comfortable with them. Some moaned that they were not good airplanes but that was just not true as other airlines were having no trouble with them at all. Reliablility of a certain type has many factors only part of which is the manufacturer.
 
ATLhomeCMH
Posts: 751
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RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 11:14 pm

A340600: Yea, us typical Americans, calling it like it is.

I'm surprised there wasn't more damage to the aircraft. Kudos to the pilos for keeping it under control. Knowing my luck, I'd be that one passenger who just happened to look out the window upon landing and saw the tire rolling away!
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
 
PC12Driver
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 4:16 pm

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 11:22 pm

Probably the dodgy mechanics at AA

That's a pretty bold statement to make. I personally know several AA A&Ps and all of them take great pride in their work and feel a deep responsibility for the safety of the passengers and crews of the aircraft they service.

The fact that the A300 has a less than stellar record with AA (and other airlines) is no secret. The MD-11 was also not very popular with the maintenance folks. The A300 was Airbus' first attempt at a large commercial jetliner and can't be compared to its designs of late (which are fine aircraft, BTW). The A300 has always had its share of problems. Sorry if the facts offend your "Airbus-can-do-no-wrong" outlook. But such a broad statement about the quality of AA mechanics' work was totally uncalled for.
 
Guest

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 11:25 pm

Sorry if the facts offend your "Airbus-can-do-no-wrong" outlook.

hmmm you clearly missed reply 25
 
4jaded
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:31 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Fri May 07, 2004 11:28 pm

Thanks PC12Driver, You are right on the money!
 
LMP737
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Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Sat May 08, 2004 1:14 am

Roberta:

Just to let you know AA mechanics who work the A300 are trained to work on the A300. The A300 has been in AA's fleet long enough for the AMT's to get used to it's little nuances. In addition installing a tire/wheel is pretty much the same no matter who makes the aircraft. Torque values may be a bit different but the general procedures are pretty similar.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
hugo
Posts: 361
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2000 11:28 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Sat May 08, 2004 1:49 am

AA's Airbuses- for whatever reason- are falling apart!!! A tail here...a wheel there...what's next?!! It's not only the cabins that are tatty. They simply need to be replaced...the whole fleet!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6089
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Sat May 08, 2004 9:33 am

You people are all idiots, I swear. Especially you Hugo, for making such an ignorant comment.

This sort of stuff happens on a semi-regular basis. Yes tires do blow, and occasionally fall off due to stresses. This in no way reflects upon AA, the A300, or Airbus. Its called exceeding the design limitations. You people don't know what caused the landing like this to happen. I can think of a NW DC-9 loosing a tire on takeoff that crashed through a blast fence at MDW too. You people on this board never amaze me and the stupid comments and arm-chair guessing you all make. I'm glad you are so judgmental to now assume the A300 is vastly unsafe and continue fueling this rumor that the A300 is a maintenance nightmare and constantly breaking down. Yes, we've had some andidotal evidence every now and then, but nothing to bring it to the level that some of you morons assume it to be.
 
BlueJet
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 9:10 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Sat May 08, 2004 9:46 am

I was on a Song flight to Hartford the other day and the tire burst.

PSU.DTW...chill. I've been on the A300, both times there were problems. It is not a great aircraft. It isn't even a good aircraft. Yes they get the job done for some of AA's flights but frankly I think they would do better without them.

I like their looks though.
 
4jaded
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:31 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Sat May 08, 2004 9:56 am

Hello PSU.DTW.SCE
You seem to have a real axe to grind with the world! HHHMMMM lets see about this the whole world is wrong and I am right...whats wrong with this picture? As far as rumors go I dont speak of rumors. I had a wonderful 17 1/2 year airline career. I was an Operations Supervisor and off sked operations planner for AA at the MIA hub. The bussiest A300 station they have. SO 8 to 18 hours a day 5 to 7 days a week I lived with this aircraft type and all the others /except the F100/ that AMR Corp operates. I read the daily briefs everyday for 17 years about the previous days operations which was broken down by fleet type of all the incidents etc that occured. I also saw all the ones that were not reported , the equipment move ups to fix this and that on the fleet while hundreds of passengers were moved from gate to gate etc. As I stated in my post this happens to all carriers in all types of planes everyday of the week. This forum is a chance for anyone and everyone to say whatever they have to say and for everyone to learn something . This is not a federal investigation and frankly few here know or care about the design limitations of the tire or wheel of an A300 nor do you know at that moment what sort of pressure that wheel endured. No one will ever know but the wheel itself and GOD. Why don't you just read the posts, take what you want and leave the rest behind and if you want to educate us poor stupid inferior beings then please do so in a simple language that we can all understand and do so being pleasent as we will all respond much better to that...

Have a lovely evening and thats for writting in
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6089
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Sat May 08, 2004 10:31 am

Look,

What I'm saying here, not directed at you, but read some of the above posts.

"The wheel fell off, they should all be retired."
"They're failing apart."

The fact that people are calling for their grounding is rediculous. Are they the FAA? No.

I'm not using big words, sorry if my college education makes me superior to some people. Simple - too much force, something will break.

Yeah, I'm the lowest scum of them all a ramper/CSA for a prop flyin' regional. I'm sorry but many people on here don't contribute anything to these forums other than nonsense, and its even worse, that some people believe them. I'm not saying I'm completely right, but step back and look at the big picture here. Sorry if I offended you, you weren't the target of my post. You can grill me all you want, I'm just trying to take a level-headed approach to all this. There are two sides to every story.
 
warren747sp
Posts: 979
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:51 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Sat May 08, 2004 12:43 pm

@Roberta
Last time Airbus supporter blame the CO mechanics. This time it's the AA mechanics. What a conveneient way to write off A-300 Reliability problems.
747SP
 
AAR90
Posts: 3140
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 11:51 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Sat May 08, 2004 12:55 pm

4jaded, very well said.

I read the daily briefs everyday for 17 years about the previous days operations which was broken down by fleet type of all the incidents etc that occured.

The Ops Summary says the tire departed the wheel on landing. The maintenance log indicates the pilots did not know this had happened until told by the FA's. Acft went out-of-service to replace the tire and fix the axle that was slightly damaged (not replaced).
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
JFernandez
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:43 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Sat May 08, 2004 1:15 pm

Is there any HONEST and SCIENTIFIC assessment of A300 vs. other similar plane types, as far as mechanical issues per cycle or something?
 
4jaded
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:31 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Sat May 08, 2004 11:16 pm

Jfernandez, I don't know other than internal reports generated by the airlines themselves that operate similar types. Then it is merely a matter or doing some math to figure it all out. I doubt highly that there is a global database. I don't think Airbus and Boeing are that close and want to share that kind of info. Besides that as I stated previously different airlines have different experiences with the same plane types. Delta for example had little trouble keeping the L1011 flying where several other operators found that plane very difficult to keep operational. The L1011 was a great airplane by almost anyone's standards. Now if you take a look at the MD-11 for example there were issues or trends that became known with this certain type that made them a challenge to all operators. Once all the bells and whistles were removed however and they were converted to haul cargo most of those issues disappeared.
 
sebolino
Posts: 3495
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

RE: Happy New Muslim Year 1425

Sat May 08, 2004 11:39 pm

HA HA HA.


hence, why these aircraft need to go in my opinion

A 747 lost a wheel while in air upon the town Schiltigheim just before landing at Strasbourg a few years ago.
Does that mean we should let the 747 go ?
 
AA717driver
Posts: 1502
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:27 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Sat May 08, 2004 11:41 pm

AA uses the A300's as trucks. They haul people and cargo back and forth to the Carribean all day and night. These airplanes get flogged. They live in a highly corrosive(sp?) environment and probably don't get enough down time.

I'm no fan of AA or Airbus(personal preference) but most on this board aren't close enough to the business to see the thousands of details that are involved in an incident like this.TC
FL450, M.85
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Sun May 09, 2004 12:48 am

If these a/c were so unsafe, then AA would dump them or their insurance carrier wouldn't insure them any longer or at a much higher premium. It's all about the $$$'s. AA587 was one of the few cases where possible structural failure contributed to an aircraft crash in many years. The pilots reacted very well and correctly in this incident, probably something well rehersed in training/simulator time.
The A300's are workhorses for AA on critical routes, have advantages over similar a/c due to their cargo capacity, are probably long paid for, reasonable on fuel use, pax get good service, and even if maintenance hogs, still cheaper than new/newer replacement a/c. (AA cannot afford replacements right now I suspect) Yes, this is a serious incident, and probably due to something that can be figured out, and corrected in the future. Maybe a loose or too tight wheel nut, maybe a bad wheel, maybe brakes hung up a bit on landing, There can be a number of reasons. NTSB will have the answer soon enough and I suspect the AA mechancs already done what needed now and considering if need to replace connected parts.
 
LostinSoCal
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 4:01 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Mon May 10, 2004 5:21 am

Wait a sec! An AA A-300 in a hard landing and all anyone can think of is whether the gear is weak. NO ONE suggested an immediate inspection of the vertical stab.? After all those photos of the sheared stabilizer attach points from the wreck of AA587 it would be incumbent on AA to pull the airplane and do a thorough inspection. Why take a chance that another AA587 is just waiting to happen?
 
trident2e
Posts: 1286
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:38 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Mon May 10, 2004 5:29 am

The level of debate on this forum can only be described as infantile. Most of those who posted on this thread need to act their age rather than their shoe size.
 
4jaded
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:31 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Mon May 10, 2004 5:36 am

Now that was constructive ! Instead of name calling perhaps you could share all of your years of wisdom and shoe size with us.
 
trident2e
Posts: 1286
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:38 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Mon May 10, 2004 5:38 am

My years of wisdom would be wasted on you.
 
Blackbird1331
Posts: 1740
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:47 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Mon May 10, 2004 5:52 am

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Chicken Little.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
4jaded
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:31 am

RE: AA A-300 Hard Landing At JFK

Mon May 10, 2004 6:21 am

OOOOOhhhhhh well I guess I will just have to stay as ignorant as I am.
Perhaps you could start a new web sight just for yourself. And then you can have conversations just with yourself.

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