airtran737
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ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Fri May 07, 2004 8:50 pm

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040507/airlines_ata_earns_2.html
How can they be thinking of a big Boeing order when losing mone? Is Boeing going to refinance their debt.
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GSPSPOT
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Fri May 07, 2004 9:16 pm

How can a LCC in the US be doing badly?? I thought they were all making money hand-over-fist...
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airtran737
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Fri May 07, 2004 9:20 pm

From what I understand ATA has been greatly affected by 9/11. I wonder what that loss would be without all of the military transport that ATA provides using their L1011's. Any ATA insiders please help us out.
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MSYtristar
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Fri May 07, 2004 9:49 pm

Just my opinion, but I honestly think one of the reason's for the loss is that the smallest mainliner in ATA's fleet is the 738. That's a pretty big aircraft, and it's one of the reasons why an efficient 100-seater is so vital for the long term existence of the airline. Chances are the break even load factor is pretty high on the 738. ATA can turn this around, and when they get the new aircraft, they will be better able to match capacity with demand on numerous routes.


Steve/MSY
 
WMUPilot
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sat May 08, 2004 2:37 am

ATA took a one time charge of around $27million for the bond exchange. This played a major part in the first quarter loss. Nobody in the company is too concerned about the loss. We posted a full-year profit last year and are expecting to post another full-year profit this year.
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7e72004
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sat May 08, 2004 2:41 am

What cities would you like to see served by ATA if they did get the smaller jets? I would like to see DCA from IND, SEA from IND as well (although they would need one of the bigger jets  Big thumbs up
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ChiGB1973
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sat May 08, 2004 2:53 am

Part of the problem is all the LCC competition, if you want to call that a problem. It's just business for everyone. Plus, CO and AA are giving all the LCCs a run for their money. It's going to be an interesting couple of years for everyone.

M
 
7e72004
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sat May 08, 2004 2:54 am

I have to agree..it will definitely be an interesting year...i think the "pecking order" is going to change a little bit  Big thumbs up
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727LOVER
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sat May 08, 2004 6:01 am

In a conference call with analysts on Friday, ATA Chief Executive George Mikelsons said the airline will become the first low-cost carrier to launch scheduled transatlantic service. The carrier, which has flown chartered flights to Europe for 20 years, plans to start scheduled service there in 2005


Didn't they have scheduled service to Ritga, Lativa?
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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sat May 08, 2004 6:41 am

Part of the problem is all the LCC competition, if you want to call that a problem. It's just business for everyone. Plus, CO and AA are giving all the LCCs a run for their money. It's going to be an interesting couple of years for everyone. M

I too think this is probably a factor for ATA, because they share their hub airport with Southwest. If I remember right, ATA's CASM is higher than Southwest's, and they compete directly on West Coast and Florida routes, and indirectly on East Coast routes (WN-BWI, ATA-DCA, etc.). If they have to match Southwest, that's going to put pressure on their bottom line. What is ATA's CASM these days?

Jim
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InnocuousFox
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sat May 08, 2004 6:45 am

"Just my opinion, but I honestly think one of the reason's for the loss is that the smallest mainliner in ATA's fleet is the 738. That's a pretty big aircraft, and it's one of the reasons why an efficient 100-seater is so vital for the long term existence of the airline."

I absolutely do no agree with this statement. The per aircraft capacity should match the routes flown. ATA flies to major markets only. If they were trying to do smaller markets, sure - they would need smaller aircraft. One advantage of the larger jets is economy of scale... The per seat costs are smaller. If you can fill them, then you are doing just fine.
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Tiger119
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sat May 08, 2004 5:16 pm

" Didn't they have scheduled service to Ritga, Lativa? "

George Mikelsons (the Boss) is a native of Latvia and TZ had scheduled service to there several years ago. I can not remember what years those flights were or where the Latvia flights originated though.
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highliner2
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sun May 09, 2004 3:00 am

But if you can't fill that larger airplane your not going to do just fine.

You have a flight from MDW-LGA, 75 people are onboard.

On which aircraft would you make more money? 738, or say a 712 or something comparable?

The smaller aircraft of course. In addition, ATA is eyeing a significant expansion with the 100-seaters as well. The name of the game these days is matching capacity to demand.
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MSYtristar
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sun May 09, 2004 4:46 am

I stand by my statement. You can bet that not all of ATA's cities fill all those 738/757 flights on a consistent basis. Some maybe, but not all. Just because they target larger markets doesn't mean those larger markets will fill those aircraft. Having a load of 75 passengers on a 100-seat EMB190 is significantly more cost effective than having 75 on an all-economy 738. The smaller aircraft will give ATA the flexibility to adjust specific flights according the demand. But don't think those 738's are packed to the brim everyday. The break even load factor on those aircraft has to be somewhere around 120 if not a little more.


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InnocuousFox
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sun May 09, 2004 6:36 am

By that logic, an airline should just have a fleet of B1900s and make sure they are all filled.
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MSYtristar
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sun May 09, 2004 7:06 am

That's obviously not the message I was trying to convey Innocuous, but when the smallest plane in the fleet is an all-coach 738, you better make certain that you can fill the required seats in order to operate in the black. I'm not so sure that ATA is doing that. Just my opinion.


Steve/MSY
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sun May 09, 2004 10:55 am

Steve - you're right. The 738 is too big for some of the markets we serve today. Our management is aware of this, and instead of dropping these destinations, they will be served with the smaller aircraft. That is - when and if it appears .... It will also be good for increasing frequencies in other markets.
I suspect the gameplan is to introduce the smaller aircraft when 757's become redeployed to European flights. As we now have dropped the additional 757's (except two), this may be the way ATA wants to go.

As for the range question that was raised: The range for the 757-200 is 7240km - IND-Cologne is 6934. That's pushing it if the winds are unfavourable..
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WMUPilot
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RE: ATA Post First Quarter Loss

Sun May 09, 2004 3:24 pm

Right but remember that, I believe, ATA said that IND and MDW would not see direct european service. I'm pushing for either New York or Boston to see the international flights. IND and MDW might see 1 stop flights to Europe.

As stated earlier the new aircraft would be expected to be added to the fleet in early to mid '05 (if they are ordered). This would coincide with several ETOPS rated 757s being pulled off line to head those flights. If I'm not mistaken all the 757s are ETOPS rated as well as a couple of 738s. I believe that somebody also stated earlier that Boeing is looking for the order with in the next few months. The major obstacle was the first quarted results. Even though we posted a loss it was only $65million ($27million was a one time charge) The company is still expecting a full year profit, which to me is what really counts. I would look for an announcement from the company in the next few months, but I wouldn't put too much stock in what is being said until it comes from the company's mouth. Look at the 767 deal. It was almost a done deal but they couldn't get the proper financing for the L-1011s replacement nor could they get the unions to agree to a pay scale. It's a funny business and now-a-days and nothing is set in stone until the first day an aircraft operates or a new route is flown.
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