jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

Why No "Real" Intl First Class For Delta?

Sat May 08, 2004 2:08 pm

Why is it that Delta lacks a true International First Class product? United has one. AA has one. It just seems like BizElite just doesn't compare..
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tu154m
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:52 am

RE: Why No "Real" Intl First Class For Delta?

Sat May 08, 2004 2:20 pm

Around 1997(I think), DL started to remove the 3 class layout of First/Business/Coach on their Int'l fleet. I was involved in doing the mods to the 767ERs and MD-11s. At the time we were told that more people were buying Business, while practically no one was buying First(mainly used to redeem milage, etc). So, we took out First, expanded Business, and upgraded to Business Elite Config. At the time, it was a really good product, and still is today, albeit somewhat dated. I know almost all overseas flights I took around that time on a 3 class aircraft(AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA, AMS, NRT, LGW) had empty First Class cabins while business and coach were constantly full.
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B4REAL
Posts: 2561
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RE: Why No "Real" Intl First Class For Delta?

Mon May 17, 2004 6:12 am

I got a mailer from DL conducting a survey of a new International cabin:

Either a premium coach (like UA's Economy Plus with free drinks) or a between economy and BizElite seat (More similar to a first class domestic cabin - better food free drinks, 2X2X2 seating) and still retaining the BizElite.

The full details are sketchy. I can pull them up if there is interest.

Anyone have any feedback inside scoop on this newly concepted cabin on DL?
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WidgetBoi
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RE: Why No "Real" Intl First Class For Delta?

Mon May 17, 2004 6:15 am

I'd love to learn more about what Delta has up it's sleeve  Big grin

jeremy
 
B4REAL
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RE: Why No "Real" Intl First Class For Delta?

Mon May 17, 2004 6:30 am

Here is the info from the Lieberman Survey:

Possibility #1

Imagine sitting in a newly configured cabin with no middle seat on a 9-hour trip to a foreign country leaving in the early evening. Your seat is leather, with a width and legroom the same as a first class domestic seat (i.e., 8 more inches of legroom than economy, slightly wider seat). You get the same five-course meal service as BusinessElite customers get, you eat whenever you want, and you get free drinks on your trip plus in-seat video/audio. When you checked in, you went through the priority check-in line and your bags were checked with priority status (i.e., first ones to arrive at the carousel). You had access to Delta's Crown Room Club and the special BusinessElite lounge with more perks, your ticket is always upgradeable to BusinessElite as long as there is space available and you will receive 50% more miles on the trip than you would have by flying regular economy. The ability to upgrade to BusinessElite is only available to you if you purchase a ticket to fly in this cabin.

Image:
http://www.opinionsite.com/umm/1C124M20040512182948.gif

Possibility #2:
Imagine sitting in a newly configured cabin on a 9-hour trip to a foreign country leaving in the early evening. Your seat is leather and you get 4 more inches of legroom from the standard economy/coach seat. You get the basic meal service as in economy (2 choices) but now you get free drinks on your trip. When you checked in, you went through a priority check-in line. In addition, you had access to Delta's Crown Room Club (free drinks, rest areas, work areas, etc.), your ticket is always upgradeable to BusinessElite if there is space available and you will receive 50% more miles on the trip than you would have by flying regular economy. The ability to upgrade to BusinessElite is only available to you if you purchase a ticket to fly in this cabin.

Image: http://www.opinionsite.com/umm/1C124M20040512182925.gif
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WidgetBoi
Posts: 1395
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RE: Why No "Real" Intl First Class For Delta?

Mon May 17, 2004 6:35 am

Interesting "possibilities."

B4, thanks for posting the survey  Big grin

jeremy
 
B4REAL
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RE: Why No "Real" Intl First Class For Delta?

Mon May 17, 2004 6:38 am

No problem. The first one appeals to me, but I think if anything the second one would be the one that actually goes to market. I wouldn't know what to call the first one, but the second one could be called "SkyEconomy" or something.

B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
WidgetBoi
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Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:57 am

RE: Why No "Real" Intl First Class For Delta?

Mon May 17, 2004 7:15 am

Personally, I think that Delta should remove one seat from the 767's Business Elite cabin, leaving it with a 2-1-2 configuration and then basically offer the current BusinessElite product, maybe with slightly less legroom (maybe 45") and a slightly downgraded service product, as a new "in-between" cabin. On the 777s, I think an "in-between" product should be developed with a 2-3-2 configuration, leather seats, leg rests, PTVs, 45 inches of legroom, and a "toned-down" BusinessElite service product.

Whatever product Delta chooses to introduce, I hope it more closely resembles the first possibility than the second  Big grin

jeremy
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Why No "Real" Intl First Class For Delta?

Mon May 17, 2004 7:28 am

Width is hardly the item most people notice. Seat pitch is the #1 selling point.

DL's BizElite seat on the 763 is slightly less wide, but the pitch is still there.

Its fine the way it is. More stratification of service classes costs money, and DL doesn't need to spend.

N
 
codc10
Posts: 1807
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RE: Why No "Real" Intl First Class For Delta?

Mon May 17, 2004 7:37 am

I've always said the airline industry is cyclical, and if Delta goes ahead with this "new" product, it'll be very similar to when we saw the introduction of business class of the late 1970s and early 1980s.

I can compare the first product to Pan Am's original Clipper Class, basically a larger seat, improved amenities, and a nicer meal, while the second option is more like BA's "Executive" class which was simply a coach seat, a slightly improved meal, free drinks, and, interestingly, no inflight entertainment.

Also of note is that the configuration on the 767 would not be of 21" width, a 2-2-2 abreast seating arrangement would have an 18.5" width.
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Why No "Real" Intl First Class For Delta?

Tue May 18, 2004 11:09 am

Why is it that Delta lacks a true International First Class product? United has one. AA has one.

That boils down to three letters.....LHR.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

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