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Sun May 09, 2004 1:45 am

Hello. I was looking at the webcam, and there was a B6 aircraft at gate A2{USAirways}

So How many airlines do this? Where?

On a side note, there was a NWA CRJ and a NC NWA D9


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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 3:06 am

It's not all that uncommon. In Europe most gates aren't assigned at all; they're operated by the airport and each airline gets assigned to particular gates at particular times.

At MSP right now, AA's ramp is undergoing reconstruction, and their gates are unusable. They're currently using gates in NW's part of Concourse D; I assume they are leasing them for the time being.
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 4:57 am

This may be a trend that's on the increase in the states. Look at the new theory behind McCarran at Las Vegas (LAS) The airport can regain control of gates and not be held hostage by long term leases by making all gates available to all carriers based on need, times, facilities, ect. One central computer system that plugs into all carriers at each gate by access code. Interchangeable electronic or plastic slat signage completes the process. Seating now stays with the airport theme instead of the carrier as long as minimums are maintained. Waits for available gates can be cut down but would still be dependent on manpower available from each carrier. The jury is still way out on this experiment but if money can be saved some forms of this will be adapted.

Another form of sharing is in ground service contracts. In some European airports (and growing elsewhere) the carrier has to agree to a state or airport monopoly for ground work instead of the individual carriers doing it all themselves. Yes, this could and is construed as state endorsed coercion, especially by those carriers unions but it also a way for those same carriers to oust their own people and say they had no choice. It would depend on which devil you want to bed down with.
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 5:08 am

M404 Hast it right. It would be great to see common use gates, ticket counters, and kiosks. Only note is if I remember correctly - Southwest does not fit into the great model set by other carriers there at LAS - but I think they are like 50% of LAS traffic.

The European model of common-everything is great, and we should readily adopt this in the US. Especially for smaller airports.

For the techies out there, Network Computing mag did a great piece on LAS (CUSS, RFID, overall technology) last year. Here are some links:
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 5:17 am

Well at LHR the terminals are all designated and the flights are given a particular stand before they are scheduled to land. I know this because when I visited the LHR tower they have on there screens a list telling the controller the aircraft flight no (ie BA783), registration (ie G-EUPH), estimated arrival time (ie 14:26), runway in which it will land on (ie 09L), place where it is from (ie LIRF) and the stand in which it is allocated (ie 165). I hope this info is ok.

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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 5:43 am

MAN is similar, they have ground planners, and certain airlines are always at a terminal, but apart from the BD shuttle always having gate 11, and the BA shuttles generally being on the same stand, there are very few stands used by a designated airline (except T3 which is BA)
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 5:45 am

I work for KLM Ground Services in Aruba (AUA). We handle other companies like Continental, Surinam Airways, BonairExel etc. Meaning they all use their own airport systems.
Just like in AMS and many other airports we SITA's CUTE (Common Use Terminal Equipment). It is based in Windows and you can log into any airline system from any point in the whole airport.

For instance when you log in KLM's system at the check-in desk, the KLM logo will appear on the monitor above the counter. Same happens at the gate. If CO is the next flight to be checked in we log out of KL's system and log into CO's and start using Sonic. The gate readers also can be used for any airline. That way is way more efficient, especially for smaller airports, but also airports as large as AMS. The only thing that actually changes is that you have to bring the airlines' boarding pass and luggage tags to put in the boarding pass and luggage tag printer.

I personally find it's great!

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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 5:49 am

HNL has common use gates which means any airline can use any gate. For example a NW flight inbound from Japan can park at gate 13 then when it leaves again a CO flight to GUM can depart from gate 13.
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 5:58 am

Does anyone know how many American airports use common gates?

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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 6:05 am

At EWR, certain gates are on long-term lease and others are common use. For example, CO has all of Terminal C, and it is built to their specifications. The gate agent desks in C-3 have the CO logo built into the background (the same are found at IAH Terminal E) and the domestic checkin area has built-in kiosks. The international checkin upstairs is also modified to their needs.

AA has one concourse at A, as does UA (although they sublease some of their 8 or 9 gates). CO also has some gates at A as well for their flights to DFW, ATL, and ORD. Terminal B has some dedicated gates (such as for DL and NW), but most are common use (used for charters during the day and international arrivals at night).
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 6:39 am

Cory. There are a few other facts of gate sharing at EWR:

Terminal A is a madhouse for domestic carriers. Yes, UA has the A-1 satellite that is leased by them, but AirTran shares I believe gate 10. ATA and Alaska are in A-2 along with Continental and America West. I have never visited those gates, but I imagine there is some gate sharing between those carriers.

Terminal A-3 has a bit of gate sharing history. American has gates 30-35 (and they really do get good use out of them  Smile/happy/getting dizzy) and US Airways has 36-39. US only uses 37 and 38 on most days. Before 9/11 National Airlines had to share with US Airways. For a while after they shut down, they still had the boarding counter there. Also, for a limited time the new Pan Am shared with US Airways out of gate 36.

In terminal B, Midwest and KLM shares a gate with NW, Air France, and El Al shares gates with Delta.

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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 7:12 am

I may be wrong, but I think El Al's flights depart from the international concourse and not from Delta's gates.

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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 8:42 am

Sun Country shares gates with Delta in PHX.
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 8:43 am

it's called CUTE, common use terminal equipment, and the idea has been around for a while. it saves airlines money on overhead mainly...
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 8:44 am

I believe SNA has gate sharing,too!
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 8:48 am

I think that the best example of gate sharing that I've seen is in PVR.

There is one long hallway with all the gates. Each gate has no markings, counters, computers, or anything. Only certain ones have jetways. When an airline has a flight at a certain gate, each one has a rolling cart that they pull up to the counter, plug in to the wall, and put sliding numbers and cities in the generic sign. Once the flight is done boarding, they pack up the computer, disconnect the cart, and roll it into storage. For example, when I was there in April, CO had two carts: one for mainline that said "Continental Airlines" and one for Express that said "Continental Express".

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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 8:49 am

We in ZRH have the same equipment as explained by GlobeTrekker, its all based on CUTE, and we sign in for the respective airline...
gates are not preassigned... the only thing that is assigned are the terminals,

Terminal 1: Swiss and Oneworld airlines
Terminal 2: Star alliance and others...

Only the gate areas are assigned: ie amercian carriers always leave from the so called 70ies (Gates A71-75) or Swiss flights heading to US are leaving from the 80ies (Gates A81-85) and so on...
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 9:18 am

ATL has gate sharing, a few gates on D and the entire E Concourse (in theory, but in reality, the airlines that operates out of E use the same gates on a day to day basis with little movement of gate location). Right now, there are 6 gates on the end of D-South (D-1, D-2, D-3, D-4, D-5, & D-7)that are shared by AirTran JetConnect (and the occassional mainline flight), America West, Frontier, and various charter operators as well.
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Sun May 09, 2004 4:59 pm

SNA does it for sure but I think ONT does it too, but Im not sure.
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Mon May 10, 2004 12:25 am

When we were doing research for the game, I talked to a lot of different airport ops managers. It was pointed out that many airports will have a handfull that are common use gates so that many airlines can use them for overflow here and there. It's not a great number of gates... maybe 10% at a large airport? There's no real formula.

Also, there will be sub-leasing of gates between airlines. One airline with infrequent service may pay another airline with a lot of gates for the ability to use a specific one of theirs.
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Mon May 10, 2004 12:37 am

I can see the advantages of having gates dedicated to particular carriers and pre-assigned to a particular flight which uses the same gate every day, particularly at the busiest airports.

However this system which is in use at most US airports can be annoying for passengers when the assigned gate is occupied and you have to sit waiting for however long for it to clear when there are plenty of free gates. If an aircraft lands at MAN for example and the planned gate is occupied a new gate will be assigned before the aircraft even reaches the terminal. If though this was a Delta flight at MDW for example, and their only gate (C3) was occupied there would be problems and long delays whilst another gate was sourced.

Dedicated gates are good when they work, but when they don't ...
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Mon May 10, 2004 12:49 am

"Dedicated gates are good when they work, but when they don't ..."

However, most carriers have enough gates to cover the peak number of flights they would have on the ground at one time. There are other ways of getting around the contingencies, however. If the one sitting at a gate is a mx problem, they can always push it out to a temp parking spot. As I mentioned in my post, there may be common use gates to use or they may be able to "borrow" another carrier's gate for a bit. They wouldn't have done it for this long if it was THAT much of a pain in the ass.

By the way, gate assignments are pretty fluid here in the states. They may have one pegged for a certain gate and then have it change while they are enroute or even as they land because of a delay. Unless you are in a situation where there is only one gate for a carrier at an airport, you aren't going to see a flight have the same gate day in and day out.
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Mon May 10, 2004 12:54 am

I remember when Midway #1 shared a gate with Eastern in PHL (i think it was gate C-8 or C-10).  Big thumbs up
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Mon May 10, 2004 2:13 am

Delta contracts its gates out at FLL occasionally...D3 and D4 are hardly used throughout the day.
Midwest Airlines...D4

however, in the past things have been different
at 1 point ATA Was at gate D4 (B4) all day and Midway was at gate D3 (B3). (those gates were hopping more than the Delta gates!)
Long ago, Icelandair served FLL from what, at the time was terminal 1.
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Mon May 10, 2004 2:18 am

Hello all.

YYZ is very big on gate sharing. All of Terminal 3 is common use gates. Once Air Canada left their domestic operation out of Terminal 2, 10 gates that were left are now common use as well as 4 "swing gates". The non bridged gates at New T1 are common use but mostly used by JZA and Air Canada. All gates at the infield terminal are common use. Once the rest of the new Terminal 1 opens, all of those gates will be common use. All ticket counters as well in T1 are common use

The GTAA, along with SITA and Cisco Systems have worked together to create and implement a common use system with a system called CUPPS or Common Use Passenger Processing System. There have been numerous articles about it.
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RE: Gate-Sharing

Mon May 10, 2004 2:30 am


Isnt the BD MAN-LHR shuttle usually gate T1 18?
Also at MAN for instance the AA 767 service to ORD usually always uses the very end gate on T3

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RE: Gate-Sharing

Mon May 10, 2004 2:38 am

The new Concourse A at SEA will be exclusively common-use gates. True, there will be a set number of carriers operating from it and no others, but their gate assignments will fluctuate with their schedules. A number of the gates in both the North & South Satellites are also already common-use, though some are dedicated to UA and NW, respectively.

Also, the new Concourse D & E at CLT are technically common-use in that they have no airline markings on the gates, but US Airways/US Airways Express is the only airline to use any of those gates except for occasional international charters operating from D.

[Edited 2004-05-09 19:40:36]

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