Thrust
Topic Author
Posts: 2584
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:17 pm

Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 6:01 am

Have you ever been on a flight where an engine separated from the aircraft? That has to be frightening!
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
F9Fan
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 7:51 am

In 1979, an AA DC-10 lost an engine on takeoff at ORD. The plane crashed into a trailer park near the airport killing everyone on board. After the plane crashed, the FAA ordered an inspection of all DC-10 engine mounts. After they found another engine barely hanging on, the FAA ordered a grounding of all DC-10s until the engine mounts could be replaced. Up until 9/11, it was the worst aviation disaster in the United States.

F9Fan
 
cedarjet
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 8:15 am

Since it's only happened a handful of times, I doubt anyone here has experienced it. I can, however, relate the tale of an AA 727 where a lump of frozen toilet waste accumulated on the side of the aircraft in flight (I believe this was over Oklahoma) before breaking off. It hit an engine (nos 1 or 3), which did indeed fail and depart from the aircraft. A rare moment when the metaphor became literal (wait for it): the shit hit the fan.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
geg2rap
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 8:19 am

There was an NW727 also from TPA-dtw (I think dtw) had an engine come off
 
eddieho
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 8:21 am

How did the lump of toilet frozen waste accumulate outside the aircraft?

Doesn't the plane store its waste and only gets removed in the plane? Or do they actually eject the matter into air, and God forbid anyone standing under the plane when someone flushes. (When you flush it the vacuum does make it sound like its going out of the plane).
 
dantiger
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 8:38 am

Thrust, my mother and younger brother were on the DC-10 flight from ORD to LAX and it broke my heart to loose them. Funny( if I might use the word) is I felt the crash or impact was their release. Their was a photo taken of the plane( from Ohare's parking lot) right after take off as the silver AA jet was basically left wing straight down just before it did the final roll over on its back. That is the thought that haunts me. What horror was Mom and Tommy going through at that moment? The impact let them out of that nightmare and let them free. Danny
 
SWA TPA
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 8:44 am


Dantiger- Wow that just made my heart stop when I read that. So sorry to hear of your loss  Sad

I looked at your profile and it says you are VP Marketing of Aerospace Fasteners. Probably a very naive question here since I am not sure what those are but it sounds possibly realated. Does your being in that field have anything to do with your past experience?

Warm regards-

SWA TPA
I believe I can fly.....
 
KYIPpilot
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 8:45 am

Here is a pic of the NW flight...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Brian Harrison

"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
 
oznznut
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 8:52 am

On March 31 1993, an Evergreen International 747-121 (N473EV) encountered severe turbulence departing Anchorage Alaska. The number 2 engine was ripped from the aircraft. The aircraft was only 7000 lbs under its max allowable takeoff weight. Damage was done to the leading edge devices, flaps, lower rudder and the left stabilizer. The aircraft returned to safely land, although it was about 100000 pounds overweight for landing. I was working for Evergreen in Marana at the time.
 
Goose
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 8:54 am

Doesn't the plane store its waste and only gets removed in the plane? Or do they actually eject the matter into air, and God forbid anyone standing under the plane when someone flushes. (When you flush it the vacuum does make it sound like its going out of the plane).

Aircraft toilet waste is stored in an internal tank, yes.... but the tank can quite easily leak. The waste drips and accumulates outside the aircraft much like an icicle does when it's melting - as the air outside is much colder than the waste tank itself.

The plug, or "donut" inside the tank can sometimes come loose and cause it to leak as well. It'll freeze outside the Lav service panel as the aircraft moves through the air. It's quite easy and happens more often than you might think.....
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
ltbewr
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 8:58 am

First of all to Dantiger, it is very sad for you to lose family members in that tragic accident, and I appreciate your sharing of your loss.
I would suspect that almost all a/c that had an engine detach crashed. Perhaps a search could be done in the various websites as to airline/aircraft accidents. There is no doubt that major parts within and around an engine have seperated from an aircraft and in effect shutting down the engine. One problem with engine separation is as the 1979 AA Chicago DC-10 crash is that other control systems are damaged, you have hydralic fluid and fuel leaks, controls may be disconnected, and an a/c's computers may make overcompensation for the loss, thus why we have pilots. As this crash happened during/just after takeoff (rotation), it was in a position that made it almost impossible to do a turnaround/emergency landing.
As to the 'stuff' hitting the fan, it isn't uncommon for leaks of a/c toilet systems, often from the access port to remove waste. As the 'stuff' leaks out, it will cling to the side of the cold a/c, and if a sufficient amount acculmates or as an a/c decends into warmer air, then it will separate from the a/c. It isn't uncommon for chunks of a/c waste to fall off an aircraft and cause damage on land, including houses and there are numerous reports of that. On some a/c of course, it could enter the engines and damage them as noted above.
 
AA777
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 9:08 am

My Uncle was once on a flight, in the 70's or 80's, where the engine simply fell off during taxiing to the RWY for takeoff. He noticed, and got up to get his things, and the FA asked him to sit down, "for take off" and he said "madam, I hate to inform you that we are definitley not going to take off with one engine having just fallen off the plane." She apparently turned white, looked out the window, and ran to the cockpit to see what was going on.... I always thought that was a funny story. Luckily nothing happened to them.

-AA777
 
danielbk
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 9:11 am

Also,
Don't forget ELAL flight 1862 (cargo) in 1992.

747-200 4X-AXG Departed EHAM enroute to TEL AVIV. Immediately after departure engine number 1 separated, Hitting engine number 2, which separated as well.

Aircraft tried to return for landing, but as they extended the flaps - it lost control and crashed into a building.

apparently - the slats/flaps did not deploy evenly.
We would never know the extant of damage to the wing.. hyd system was definitely lost..

Danny.
cockpit? it's that little room in the front of the plane where the pilots seat.. but that's not important now
 
Accidentally
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 9:14 am

NTSB Identification: NYC88FA050 .
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 36396.
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier USAIR
Accident occurred Saturday, December 05, 1987 in DEPTFORD, NJ
Probable Cause Approval Date: 2/24/1989
Aircraft: BOEING 737-2B7, registration: N319AU
Injuries: 67 Uninjured.

DRG TKOF, AS USAIR FLT 224 WAS CLBG THRU 4000', THE ACFT YAWED/ROLLED RGT. SIMULTANEOUSLY, THE CREW NOTICED THE #2 THROTTLE SLAM/LOCK TO THE IDLE PSN & A CONTINUOUS AIRFRAME BUFFET BEGAN. SOON THEREAFTER, THE #2 ENG SEPD FM THE ACFT & THE BUFFET STOPPED. THE ENG IMPACTED IN AN OPEN FLD, 6 MI FM THE ARPT. JUST BFR IT SEPD, A PAX SAW THE AFT END OF THE #2 ENG MOMENTARILY DROOP ABOUT 30 DEG. AFTER ENG SEPN, THE 'B' HYD SYS LOST PRES & THE TE FLAPS WOULD ONLY EXTD 10 DEG. THE ACFT WAS LNDD SAFELY AFTER AN EMERG GEAR EXTN & DIFFERENTIAL BRAKING WAS USED FOR STEERING. AN EXAM REVEALED THE AFT MOUNT CONE BOLT FOR THE #2 ENG HAD FAILED FM FATIGUE THRU THE THREAD RELIEF UNDERCUT RADIUS. FATIGUE CRACKS HAD INITIATED ON DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE RADIUS. SUBSEQUENTLY, THE FWD MOUNT CONE BOLTS & SECONDARY SUPPORT CABLE FAILED FROM OVERLOAD.

Indianapolis, IN
 
ua777222
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 9:14 am

Dantiger,
It saddens me to hear of your loss and to know that you struggled through such hard times. I too know what it's like to lose a loved one in an aviation related accident. My uncle (worked in tower #1) and dad's cousin (UA f/a) lost their lives in 9/11. My thoughts and prayers go to you and your family.

Thrust,
Might I ask why you present such a ?. I just find it hard for a.net members to answer b/c losing an engine is very very rare.


UA777222
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
cedarjet
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 9:41 am

Actually a friend of mine was the f/o on a 707 going from Luxembourg to Africa, overweight, took 40 mins to top of climb. In heavy turbulence, near TOC, engine no 3 detached and hit no 4 which also seperated (like the El Al in AMS). Right wing was extensively damaged, hydraulics etc. The plane rolled over, dropping like a stone. Crew managed to regain some control but couldn't stop the descent. They knew they were in the Alps and expected to hit something. They managed to navigate clear, and headed for Marseilles, although without much expectation of making it. In a gap in the clouds they saw a runway, worked out it was the French AF base at Istres (where the Air France Concordes did their tests before reentering service in 2001 btw). Found the frequency, called the tower, announced they needed to land immediately. The tower said they had a visual contact on the aircraft. "How? We're in cloud!" "You are on fire." The tanks on the right wing had been leaking fuel the whole time, which had ignited. As it burned, flaps and other parts of the wing were falling off. They got round the circuit, and landed at 220 knots airspeed (groundspeed was higher - tailwind) without flaps or slats. Most of the tires failed although the gear held. They went off the end of the runway, opened the side windows, jumped and ran like hell as the plane went up in flames.

Good enough for ya?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
747srule
Posts: 388
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Flights In Which An Engine Fell Off

Sun May 09, 2004 9:48 am

About 2 or 3 years ago KLM flight 602 lost an engine just after takeoff LAX-AMS. It was later found on Dockweiler State Beach. It returned to LAX and sat there until the next day.
Jesus is the way,the truth,and the life
 
N79969
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 9:50 am

A China Airlines 747-200F lost an engine in flight due to corroded pins and crashed killing all 5 on board. That was 1991 according to one website.

Somewhat related are two incidents in which NWA 747s dropped an engine onto the runway (or tarmac?) at Narita. In at least one case, the sole runway (at the time) was closed for several hours to the serious annoyance of everyone else.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 9:59 am

A couple of engine separations have occurred on 747 cargo aircraft (as others have mentioned), and aside from the AA DC-10 at ORD the only other engine separations I can think of that occurred on passenger aircraft are:

B727-200
(All due to ice from the leaking forward lav ingested into the #3 engine)
National Airlines, mid-1970s, citypair unknown, somewhere over New Mexico.
American Airlines, mid-1980s, DFW-SAN, somewhere over New Mexico.
NWA 727, 1989, MIA-MSP, somewhere over Florida.

B737-100/200
(All due to engine conebolt failures)
Piedmont, at ORD (complete separation)
Delta, at DFW (complete separation)
USAir, at PHL (complete separation)
Southwest, at DAL (aft conebolt failed, cable held, engine didn't separate)

There may be a couple of additional 737 conebolt failures that slipped my mind, and I believe they also would have been complete separations. The Southwest one being a partial separation was a real rarity.

The FAA had Airworthiness Directives (ADs) out on the respective 727/737 problems that created the situations, and eventually tightened up the time intervals for inspections/replacement of parts, and the problems have pretty much gone away. You still hear about a blue ice ball drilling itself through someone's roof now and then, but I have never heard of anything attributable to a specific aircraft type (so it could be any type).
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
DC-10inLB
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 10:42 am

747s rule....

Just a quick correction...

KLM didn't loose the engine. There was a birdstrike on the engine which of course flamed out. When that happen, it was only the exhaust nacelle that separated off the rear of the engine that surrounds the rear of the turbine section. It fell to the beach, and looked like a big empty planter.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 10:48 am

I remeber hearing about a CX 744 that lost an engine as it departed LAX. The engine came down on a public beach somewhere west of the airport.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 10:52 am

F9Fan,

AA Flight 191 is still this country's worst single commercial airline disaster. 9/11 was a terrorist attack.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
swaphx99
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 10:52 am

How did the lump of toilet frozen waste accumulate outside the aircraft?

Well, when a waste access panels leaks at 27000 feet, the waste and water freeze to the fuselage and then as the aircraft descends or the ice gets to heavy, the block breaks and more then likely gets carried by the slip-stream into the engine.
A bad day of Photography is still better than a Good Day at Work!!
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4888
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 12:20 pm

The Delta incident at DFW happened in... I wanna say 1992. I was going to school at the time with a girl whose father was PILOTING the aircraft when the engine fell! She said that he saw the vibration gage going way upward, and then it suddenly dropped. This was immediately after takeoff. It was in a slew of Delta incidents that caused me and my friends to poke fun at their slogan- we twisted it to, "we love to crash and it shows." Of course, as kids, we didn't relize the danger.
But that no 2 engine fell off like, before the gear had completely retracted, and the pilot pulled a 180 and landed (the wrong direction) on a parallel runway on the other side of DFW. It was truly a miraculous landing.

R
 
electraBob
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Sun May 09, 2004 10:56 pm

This goes way back, and it wasn't the loss of an entire engine...but on May 5, 1967, the propeller shaft separated from the engine of a Lake Central Airlines Convair 580 flying from Columbus, OH. to Toledo. The prop sliced through the fuselage, severing the Convair in half. The wreckage crashed near Marseilles, Ohio.....37 people perished.

That was the end of a very good regional airline.....Lake Central merged with Allegheny Airlines on July 1, 1968.
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.....
 
Thrust
Topic Author
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Tue May 11, 2004 1:24 pm

Oh wait, I missed an obvious incident!!! N14053, the AA A300 that crashed enroute to the Caribbean from JFK in October 2001!!! The engine fell off the wing, right, resulting in the accident??
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Tue May 11, 2004 1:36 pm

The A300's fin separated from the aircraft, although I do believe an engine also did so.

That, not the DC-10, is the worst aviation disaster in the US not including 9/11.

N
 
txagkuwait
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Tue May 11, 2004 1:39 pm

Might need some help from OPNL_Guy on this one....

As I recall Southwest had a 737-200 flying OKC-DAL that lost an engine into Lake Texoma. (If you have to lose one, in a great big lake is a pretty good idea).

The story I got was that the engine had some sort of catastrophic turbine failure and things happened just like they were supposed to...rather than stay on the wing where fire or shrapnel could cause a problem, the shear bolts broke and the engine fell into the lake.

1980s maybe?
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Tue May 11, 2004 1:45 pm

The story I got was that the engine had some sort of catastrophic turbine failure and things happened just like they were supposed to...rather than stay on the wing where fire or shrapnel could cause a problem, the shear bolts broke and the engine fell into the lake.

Works as designed, perhaps, but is that a wise design?

If you dropped an engine from FL410 onto another plane, onto a school, or perhaps overhead a fuel storage facility, wouldn't the collateral damage to the ground be worse?

N
 
LVZXV
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Tue May 11, 2004 2:52 pm

Cedarjet:

If I'm not mistaken, the 707 didn't burn up. If it is the same 707 (how many African registered 707 freighters lost 2 engines in turbulence over the French Alps and landed safely?!), then I remember seeing pictures taken by the crew of the engineless starboard wing, plus some shots of the aircraft on the ground once it had landed, although yes, large parts of the wing had incinerated. Was it mostly white?
Allegedly, once the pilot completed his hair-raising landing and the co-pilot walked him to right side of the aircraft to inspect the damage, he suffered a heart-attack from the shock and dropped dead. A tragi-comic way to go!

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
Arcano
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Tue May 11, 2004 2:59 pm

Hi

Not sure, but almost...

During the late 80s, a 737's engine in SCL just felt from the wing while parking. I'm not sure of the airline, but it was LAN or LADECO (LA or UC). I don't remember either if the aircraft was fully loaded ready for departure, I think it was.

As a related news, just today, a Lan Express 737 from Concepcion (CCP) to SCL had engine failure during flight, so the pilot decided to return to CCP. Nothing happened, but the people was freaking out and some of them refused to aboard the next flight and just took the bus (which takes about 8 hours).


Saludos, )(Arcano
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
rotor1
Posts: 222
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Tue May 11, 2004 3:04 pm



G-ARWE of BOAC, don't know the story, but the other pictures suggest it made it back to the airport and burned up on the runway.

-Mike
The best aviation photo I've ever taken was rejected by Airliners.net
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Tue May 11, 2004 9:32 pm

>>>Might need some help from OPNL_Guy on this one....

>>>As I recall Southwest had a 737-200 flying OKC-DAL that lost an engine into Lake Texoma. (If you have to lose one, in a great big lake is a pretty good idea).

>>>The story I got was that the engine had some sort of catastrophic turbine failure and things happened just like they were supposed to...rather than stay on the wing where fire or shrapnel could cause a problem, the shear bolts broke and the engine fell into the lake.

You're really taxing my cranium, TxAg....  Big grin

I don't recall what city-pair was involved, but the problem wasn't a turbine failure nor did the engine go into the lake (Texoma nor Bachman). What happened was something that had happened to several other 737-200s over the years as noted above, i.e. an aft "conebolt" failure.

If you'll look at the picture of the NWA 727-200 earlier in the thread, you'll notice the engine strut and the curved frame attached to it. If you turn that strut/frame 90 degrees with the frame on the bottom, that's pretty much the underwing mounting scheme on the 737-100s and 737-200s.

There are three conebolts that attach the engine to that curved frame. The bolts are sort of T-shaped at the base. The two conebolts at the front of the mount are oriented like this: |- -| (presumably to handle rotational stresses) and the single aft conebolt at the reat of the mount is oriented like: T (presumably to handle the fore/aft thrust stresses). I say "presumably" as I'm not an engineer, and this is how I recall someone explaining it to me long ago. (737doctor, feel free to chime in anytime...)

The single aft conebolt ( T ) is backed up by a steel cable, and should the aft conebolt fail (as has happened) the cable is supposed to let the aft end of the engine drop 1-2 feet from the surface of the wing. Sometimes, that cable also failed, and you then got a situation where the aft end of the engine dropped further than 1-2 feet from the bottom of the wing, and the engine essentially pivoted around the front two conebolts and eventually right off the aircraft. This is what happened to Piedmont/ORD, USAir/PHL, and Delta/DFW, and probably some others around the globe.

What happened to that SWA flight so long ago was that the aft conebolt failed (and the aft end of the engine dropped 1-2 feet) but that the back-up cable HELD, preventing a complete separation. Captain Bernie Ballard made a nice soft landing on 31L, nobody was hurt, and after repairs, the aircraft was flying again within a couple of days.

The culprit behind this, the conebolts themselves, were the subject of a couple of airworthiness directives (ADs) and the inspection intervals were tightened up so that the metalurgical problem could be caught earlier (which has apparently worked, since you never see conebolt failures anymore), and I think they also made changes to the materials used, as well as the back-up cable.

I should also note that the problems with the 727 engine separations came from lav ice ingestion, and the #3 engine seizing at high RPM, and then just torqing itself right off the aircraft. In that context, the engine mounts were indeed designed to allow the engine to shuck itself off. In the case of the 737-200s, that same type of mounting would have probably allowed the same thing (assuming that a rotating engine had suddenly seized) but that the 737 separations resulted from a different (unintended) problem, i.e. the aft conebolt and cable.

Bottomline, no SWA 737 engine ever dropped into the lake anywhere... (although the image of a 737 skimming the lake and dropping the engine like a Grumman TBM Avenger dropping a torpedo is sort of entertaining...)  Big grin


[Edited 2004-05-11 14:38:22]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
anthsaun
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:32 pm

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Wed May 12, 2004 1:17 am

Back in 1983 I took a DC3 from OAX (Oaxaca) to PXM (Puerto Escondido) and the left engine went into flames really bad when we were over the mountains. There was a point where we were touching the tree tops. Finally we made a emergency landing.

A year later I went back to PXM and saw the useless DC3 parked still there.
Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
 
Thrust
Topic Author
Posts: 2584
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Wed May 12, 2004 4:51 am

Also, I believe the 747 had early pylon problems when it was brand new in this world. (The late '60s, early '70s). There were several test flights in which engines came off the wing, back in the days when pylons were designed to break when an engine failure occured (something of that nature). This turned out to have severe consequences, several accidents may have occured or near-accidents. This lead engineers to revise the design of the pylon, and today the new design keeps the engine on the wing even after a failure. Thanks to participants, keep 'em rolling in.

--Thrust
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
aa777223er
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:32 am

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Wed May 12, 2004 5:05 am

Gigneil,

AA191 is still the worst single aircraft crash is US history with 271 fatalities.

AA587 is the second with 260 fatalities.

On 587, after the vertical stabilizer separated from the aircraft, and the plane was going down, it did indeed lose both of it's engines.

May my departed colleagues rest in peace and their spirits soar.

Kind regards,

AA777223ER
time flies, seize the day
 
F9Fan
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:42 pm

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Wed May 12, 2004 8:39 am

I was in a customer service class today taught by a former TWA F/A. She was flying from AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA to LAX on a 747-400 when she got a call to come to the cockpit. The pilot informed her that one engine was about to fall off (which it did), and another was about to catch fire, and they couldn't dump fuel either because of hydraulic systems failure. They diverted to GTW where they had to make a wheels-up landing. They were able to evacuate the plane in 37 seconds, which is good because just six seconds later, the plane was engulfed in flames.

F9Fan
 
n9801f
Posts: 154
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RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Wed May 12, 2004 9:01 am

Heartfelt condolences to Dantiger. That was a terrible accident and a sad story.

Most of the episodes I recall are mentioned above, except for a 707 that lost an engine over Michigan (I think AA in the mid-70's).

A few clarifications/comments:

National Airlines had problems with a DC-10 (not 727) over New Mexico. The pilots did an experiment with the engine controls in flight and the engine exploded, damaging the fuselage and breaking a window. One pax was ejected, but the plane landed successfully in Albuquerque.

The AA 727 (DFW-SAN, engine detached over New Mexico). I recall one news story saying that pax begged the crew to land in PHX, but were refused. According to this story, when the plane landed in SAN, the crew discovered the engine had not merely malfunctioned, it was gone! Don't know if the news story is true.

Note that there seem to be many episodes involving 707's and 737's. They're great planes in my book, and they all seem to make it back to the airport after losing an engine, but are they more susceptible to this problem than other planes? I can't every recall this happening to a 757, DC-9, or A-320.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Wed May 12, 2004 9:21 am

>>>National Airlines had problems with a DC-10 (not 727) over New Mexico. The pilots did an experiment with the engine controls in flight and the engine exploded, damaging the fuselage and breaking a window. One pax was ejected, but the plane landed successfully in Albuquerque.

The DC-10 incident (with N60NA, IIRC) was a separate deal--National Airlines did indeed have a 727 that shucked an engine due to lav ice injestion into #3..


>>>The AA 727 (DFW-SAN, engine detached over New Mexico). I recall one news story saying that pax begged the crew to land in PHX, but were refused. According to this story, when the plane landed in SAN, the crew discovered the engine had not merely malfunctioned, it was gone! Don't know if the news story is true.

That's exactly the way I heard it reported here the DFW area.

As an aside, after the AA engine separation, some wiseguy (presumably at AA) came up with a very impressive and official-looking engineering drawing and fake airworthiness directive (AD) mandating the installation of an "engine quantity gauge" for telling how many engines were on the aircraft. The really funny thing about it (to me) was that there was a green arc corresponding to 3 engines, a yellow arc corresponding to 1-2 engines, and the real killer, a red arc if you were below 1 engine (as if you -needed- a red arc to tell you that you were in deep doo-doo).  Big grin
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
n9801f
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Wed May 12, 2004 9:27 am

OPNLguy,

Thank you for the clarification about NA 727.

And the 'engine quantity gauge' is hilarious!
 
blueairbureau
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:21 am

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Wed May 12, 2004 3:06 pm

To the gentleman who lost his relatives on the AA DC-10. It was very quick and very instant. The F/A's probably didn't even get chance to start brace commands. I want you to reference this book if your comfortable to read about the accident. It's by Stanley Stuart, It's called Air Disasters. It has a tremendous amount of info about this accident. There was a lot of controversy about maintenance practices because of this accident. This may give you a little bit of ease in knowing what happened. If you cannot find the book I will gladly fax the info to you. Email me at blueairbureau@yahoo.com. I to was touched by this accident. Until I read about it, I didn't have closure. Now I rest a little better.
 
barney captain
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Wed May 12, 2004 5:14 pm

"Works as designed, perhaps, but is that a wise design?"

Absolutely. Trust me, you don't want the engine staying fastened to the A/C with a severe turbine failure. You would end up with A LOT more than just the engine falling from the sky.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
MSP2PHX
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 4:26 pm

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Wed May 12, 2004 11:00 pm

http://aviation-safety.net/database/1992/920331-0.htm

The above link details the 707 incident, at Istres.
 
Okie
Posts: 3535
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Wed May 12, 2004 11:44 pm

First of all, Dantiger your losses are heartfelt.

I read the accident summary on the 707, The last statement "the AD was insufficiently efficient" LMAO, What kind of double speak is that?

I have heard the WN story about dropping the engine in the lake years ago, but have always considered that as aviation folklore. I will see if I can track that one down.

The Blue Ice story landing in Oklahoma, I am sure that it would have made headline news.
"Blue Ice Causes Thousands of Dollars of Improvements"

Okie
 
exPratt
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 6:15 am

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Thu May 13, 2004 1:50 am

Pan Am had a 707 have the No. 4 engine, a JT3D, blow up just after take off from LAX. The engine dropped off and landed on a car in back of some shop near the airport. The engine burst also caused a fire that burned off the right wing tip outboard of the No. 4 engine position. The engine failure was a caused by a turbine spacer that burst because Pan Am had cut back the knife edge seals so that the seal pedestals were running against the seal lands that had been coated oversize to maintain the necessary clearances. The pedestals could not shed the heat like the knife edges and the spacer overheated and burst.

Two interesting stories about the AA 727 that lost an engine enroute to SAN. When the airplane landed, SAN tower commented that they lost an engine and the crew replied that it had just flamed out on final and which point the tower pointed out that the No. 3 engine was missing completely. The crew apparently got in a lot of trouble because they had overflown so many suitable landing sites from where the engine ws discovered in New Mexico.

I was in SAN attending a meeting when the AA 727 event happened. One of the attendees was on that airplane. He was a smoker and always sat in the last row. He says he didn't hear anything, but did notice during the flight that he had a better view of the wing than he had at takeoff. We often suspected the guy was a jerk and he proved that we were right.
 
Thrust
Topic Author
Posts: 2584
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Thu May 13, 2004 8:10 am

Dantiger, your family losses are heartfelt by me. I'm so sorry your family suffered for an aviation accident that could have been prevented. Take care.

--Andrew Ferguson
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
rampmike
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:56 am

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Thu May 13, 2004 8:23 am

"A rare moment when the metaphor became literal (wait for it): the shit hit the fan."

HAHAHAHA LOL that is good... I know sometimes in the winter there was blue icicles on AA F100's.... I've been told that the blue stuff contails glycol which is basically deicing fluid.. But eh the water still must freeze eaisly.
 
contrails
Posts: 1310
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:53 pm

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Thu May 13, 2004 8:41 am

I can vaguely recall an engine coming of an AA 707 over St. Louis back in the 70's, or maybe early 80's. I can't remember any details, although I don't think anyone was hurt.

Didn't a propellor come off a chopper on top of the PanAm Building in NYC several years ago? It brought about the end of the chopper shuttle, as I recall.

This isn't exactly the same thing, but a tip tank came off a wing of a B-52 departing Carswell AFB (Ft. Worth, now a Navy air base) back in the late 70's. It came down in a pasture, and if I recall correctly it killed a cow. It was a big deal around Ft. Worth for several days.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
BA747400
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 6:29 am

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Thu May 13, 2004 9:08 am

Although I do not have any information regarding the topic, I do want to express my deepest condolences to both Ua777222 and Dantiger. My heart goes out to you two, and your tragic losses. Such losses are never easy to deal with, and they always seem to effect people you don't know. I feel strongly about this a.net community and feel as though I know many of you very well. Hearing of such a loss from anyone here is deeply saddening.
With warmest regards,
Michael
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Flights In Which Engine Came Off

Thu May 13, 2004 10:00 pm

>>>I have heard the WN story about dropping the engine in the lake years ago, but have always considered that as aviation folklore. I will see if I can track that one down.

Precisely what it is, fokelore... See reply #32...

[Edited 2004-05-13 15:21:50]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.

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