col
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First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 5:13 am

Just read on speednews that a 757 will be broken up, and it is not damaged. Anyone got more info, as this is a little surprising.
 
N2111J
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 5:18 am

I don't have any info on this particular aircreaft, however, in general, anyone who breaks up a commercial airliner should be drawn and quartered! lol
 
A340600
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 5:33 am

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo, I suppose some of them were built in the early 80's: Smile Smile(

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flynavy
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 5:38 am

I doubt that it will be the ex-TWA PW-powered birds that American got rid of (at least, I hope not). They are fairly new, compared to the 767-200's that met a similar fate.
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
col
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 5:40 am

All the early birds went to BA and EA. The BA are now FR, could it be an early EA unit which then ended up being hammered by a UK Charter Airline.
 
na
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 5:41 am

The 767 and the 757 were both intoduced in the early 80s, the oldest examples are 22 years old. Several 767s were already scrapped and dozens more are on the list, having been retired forever (Ansett, Air NZ, UA, AA, Air Canada, Delta...).
So why wonder a old 757 has come to its end as well? I find it even surprising that some 757s, having more cycles on the clock as 767s of the same age because of its lesser range, have not been cut up before the first 767s.
 
col
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 5:54 am

The BA 757 must have had most cycles from the shuttle operation. These units found homes as FR. With the older 72F/DC8, the 757 must be favorable to operate, their second hand costs must be getting lower.
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 6:08 am

Maybe this one failed the fatigue test and was not worth saving. I landed twice on two different aircraft, they both landed "hard" in my opinion. Does that shorten its life? I would think so. Any 757 drivers reading this?
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MaverickM11
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 6:09 am

FR?


Obviously not Ryanair...
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repaulson
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 6:11 am

I thought US airways got the EA 757s... EA ran them into the ground!
 
flynavy
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 6:15 am

Landing "hard" in your opinion, and an actual "hard" landing are, of course, two different things. In the Hornet, for instance, there are air frame stress sensors/probes throughout the aircraft. If one of these sensors records airframe stress amounts above the acceptable threshold, it immediately alerts the pilot and/or maintenance crew. Multiple inspections are required. This most certainly stresses, or "ages" the airframe.
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FlyGuyClt
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 6:17 am

Repaulson:

USAirways did get some of the EA 757's. From what I have been told by USAirways crews is that when EA shut down. The planes went straight to the desert. With food carts and lavs not serviced. So when USAirways finally got them. Needless to say they were very ripe for awhile. Some EA birds also went to European Charters. Years ago in the Caribbean a 757 Charter crashed in the water on take off. From what I remember that was a former EA 757. If my facts are correct. EA had a total of 25 757's at one time. The first delivery being 1983. Gee I am getting old.

Safe Travels All  Smile
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ha763
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 6:22 am

FR=Freighters. The BA 757s went to DHL IIRC.
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 6:28 am

Flynavy:

Let me rephrase. Of all the commercial jets I have been on, the 757 seemed to land harder than the others. Maybe they were built for that. I always thought they had great legs.


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n102daman
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 6:33 am

Too bad. The 757 is indeed a great aircraft. Will see it in service for many many years to come but always hate to loose one.


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Aloha717200
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 6:33 am

I thought there would be more time before the first 757 would be broken up.  Sad


For a while I've actually been dreading the day the first 757 would meet it's fate, guess that wait is over. None of them seem old to me at all, but then again when the 727 was still flying regularly in the USA, I didn't find that plane old either. So sad that aircraft have only 20-30 years of life in them before they have to be retired.

Can you find out the reg # of this plane?
 
trnswrld
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 6:35 am

To whoever made the comment about the TWA 75's...Ummm those were all acquired brand new in late 90's.
 
Greg
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 6:58 am

I am somewhat stumped by the 'greatness' of the 757 considering it:

1. out of production quicker than any other Boeing jet...
2. still has competitors that have a backorder for basically the same type of aircraft (A321).
3. is being replaced by a design that is essentially at least 15 years older....(737-900).

It's well and good to say how well it's climb performance was---but how successful can it be judged if it's production has been terminated only two years after a derivative launched (753).

Not a slam...it's just interesting...
 
cloudy
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 8:20 am

The 757, and soon the 767 as well, are going out because of the 7E7. The 737-900 did cut into sales but the 7E7 program is the real reason it is going out of production.
 
LVZXV
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 8:30 am

Greg:

3 points about the 757:

1. By the time 757 production closes in late 2004, the aircraft will have been produced for 22 years. Interestingly, Boeing's #2 best seller, the 727, was produced for 21 (1963-84), so your first point is incorrect. The 757-300 was an unmitigated flop, true, but some aircraft are intended for very small markets are due from the start to attract few customers, as was the case with the 747SP and 767-400.
2. The 757 is a twin to the 767. One cannot consider one without considering the other, as the programme was joint and the two aircraft made their first flights only a year apart. The same goes for the A330/A340 family.
3. In all fairness, the Tu-204 has more in common with the 757 than the A321. Not only does the A321 offer an inferior seating capacity and shorter range, but the type doesn't have the rough field performance of the 757 primarily due to shorter undercarriage and 2-wheel MLG bogies. Although the A321 has sold in the region of 600 in its 9 years of service, I think had Airbus adopted 4-wheel MLG bogies and extra fuel capacity they would have sold many more.

XV

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
EMBQA
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 8:45 am

I am somewhat stumped by the 'greatness' of the 757 considering it:

1. out of production quicker than any other Boeing jet...


WAAAAAY wrong......!!!! I think the 747SP has that title.

My quick math has the 720 second, followed by the 707 at just shy of 20 years......Excluding Military Orders

Next to the 727, the 757 is one of the finest Boeings every built..just ask anyone that fly it.
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dutchjet
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 9:03 am

The 757 is one of the finest airliners ever built and developed......name another type that can fly from New York to Europe one day and shuttle between New York and Boston the next.....and do each type of mission (and everything inbetween) economically and produce a profit for the airline; the 757 is one of the most versatile airliners around. A run of 22 years and nearly 1100 copies sold is solid evidence of its success. The 753 was simply the wrong aircraft at the wrong time, it offered extra capacity just when the airlines were looking to cut back - the 753 is the most economical way to move about 225 passengers between 2 cities that are 500-2500 miles apart, the problem was filing 225 seats on a route when airlines are far more interested in frequency and making their hubs work, shame.

However, all good things must come to an end, it was a sad day when the last 727 was built and the same will be true when the last 757 rolls down the line later this year.


 
n9801f
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 9:05 am

Blackbird1331:

More so than the 757, the DC-8 always seemed to me to land remarkably hard.

It had no leading edge slats, so it descended nose down until what seemed like the last minute, then flare, and BAM!
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 9:09 am

A completely misguided statement, Greg.

1. out of production quicker than any other Boeing jet...

I don't think so. I think the respondent above has it with the 747SP. The 757 has been in production for 22 years!



2. still has competitors that have a backorder for basically the same type of aircraft (A321).

The A321 is NOT the same type of aircraft. While the pax capacity may be similar, the 321 is designed for short-haul. the 757 was designed for trans-con. Similar sized planes, entirely different jobs.


3. is being replaced by a design that is essentially at least 15 years older....(737-900).


Two incorrect statements in one sentence. First, the 739 is an entirely new airplane. New wing, cockpit, systems, engines, everything. The only thing similar is that it has a similar fuselage design.

Next, the 739 does not replace the 757. Firstly, it also is designed for short-haul, though some airlines push the limits of its range. Next, the pax capacity doesn't match the 757. You know what the 739 competes with? The A321. Not the 757. The 739X was the proposed 752 replacement, but with the 7e7 out now, boeing may likely terminate the 739X plan, and go with a 7e7 hybrid instead.


how successful can it be judged if it's production has been terminated only two years after a derivative launched (753).


Was the DC-9 successful? By your logic, the 717 would be the same as a DC-9 because it looks the same and has a similar design. The 717 hasn't sold well, so does that mean the whole DC-9 family was a failure?

Here's a better example.

The 767 will be out of production soon. The 764, launched only a few years back, has had only two customers. Does this mean the entire 767 family is a failure? OR that one particular design just didn't make it in today's market?


The 747SP was a failure...does that mean that the entire 747 line was a failure too?

See, bad logic. You say the 757 program was not a success, because the 753 didn't garner enough orders to keep the line open. By that logic, Boeing's entire jetliner family has been just one big failure after another.

[Edited 2004-05-12 02:11:55]
 
beechnut
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 9:31 am

Re: firm landings. As passengers we tend to judge landings on their gentleness.

Pilots on the other hand will tell you that crosswinds, contaminated runways and short runways all dictate firm landings: better control in crosswinds when all wheels are in contact with terra firma; less hydroplaning on contaminated runways, and more rapid full braking on short runways.

The passenger cabin is the worst place from which to rate a landing. When I'm in a plane that lands hard, but see the windsock pointing across the runway and looking like it's had a recent dose of Viagra, I want to congratulate the crew for their airmanship.

One airline pilot in fact once told me that Boeing encourages firm landings from a safety standpoint.

Mike
C-GTLM
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 9:50 am

Thank you for the input, guys. I will then move on to my second theroy. Airbus owns the plane.
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geg2rap
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RE: NW Route/Service Updates

Wed May 12, 2004 10:03 am

haha...that is really funny...so if boeing gets SIA's a345's are the going to the chopping block at retribution?
 
tbear815
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 10:37 am

Two things I'd like to add - Boeing simultaneously produced the 707 and 720. And, some of the "loser" models gave way to very successful designs. The 720 pax load and range was adapted into the 727 (both variants 100 & 200), and the 747SP gave way to the 747-100 (IMHO). So, as with any business, growth, many times, gives way to improvement (hopefully).
 
Greg
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 11:46 am

No...I don't think I'm wrong at all.
1. the 747SP was a derivative..and the 747 is still in production. Same for the 720.....sorry guys.
2. Airbus and Boeing clearly admitted that the 757/321 were competitive products, regardless of what enthusiasts say..
3. Argue what you will...the 739 is STILL a derivative (just check is airworthiness certificate if you want to argue that). To same it has a 'similiar' fuselage design' is ludicrous. It IS the same design--manufactured in a different way.
4. the 757/767 program were only 'married' very late in the design process. While working very well for Boeing...they are not the same bird. It's like saying the A321 and A330 are 'one in the same' mission-wise.

Sorry, I'll go with my logic.
Again, I think the 757 is nice aircraft..and had a great run. And a great safety record, too, that no one has mentioned.

I just think it's odd that it had such a limited run. The 737, 757, and 767 all got an extended lease on life....but not the 757. That's the point I was making.
 
LVZXV
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 2:27 pm

Greg:

One thing you are forgetting is that the 757-200, as a variant, as been in production dor longer than any other Boeing variant--check the 707, 727, 737, 747 and 767* families and none of their variants were able to sell for 22 years. I'd say it's another reason to call the 757, or at least the -200, and unrivalled success in itself (regardless of numbers).
All that could have been done to the 757 was a shrink, but the aerodynamics would have to be completely redesigned since even the -200 was seriously overpowered. I'd say there was no need, and Boeing agreed.
And sorry, Dutchjet and Aloha717200 are right about the 757. Look at the numbers and you'll see it is in a different family from the A321. Even if you want to part the 757 and 767, pilot training programmes remain similar due to identical cockpits, the two aircraft have several parts in common, and well, separate or combined, both families have sold over 1,000 so there you go, what are you on about? They both "sang for their supper"!

*The 762 has in theory been in production since 1981 but hasn't secured any orders in quite a while and the line is as good as dead. The 763 is substantially younger.

XV

P.S. The A321 and A330 have NOTHING in common!

How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
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RayChuang
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 2:48 pm

I'm surprised it took them this long to finally scrap an end-of-useful life 757 for parts! Fortunately, most of the parts will be recycled and used on other 757's still flying.  Smile

But I expect the 757 to fly for many years to come, mostly because it's still unmatched for transatlantic charter flying (why do you think most of the charter airlines in Europe fly 757-200's for passengers on inclusive tour packages to the USA East Coast?). The Airbus A321 is too range-limited for this type of work.
 
Udo
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 4:05 pm

The latest 93 MGTOW version of the A321-200 can fly trans continental missions well, US Airways has been doing that for some years. And in most cases B757s are used on medium and short haul flights where range is not a major aspect. In Europe most B757 operators can replace their aircraft easily with A321, many have done that already. Even charter operators have done that. And only few operators still use the B757 for trans atlantic flights.

The A321 may have some seats less, but it's also lighter and offers more cargo space.
And the A321 frame has not reached its final stage yet, I'm sure we will see an updated A32X family in a few years, with even better A321 performance.


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Udo
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col
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 8:09 pm

Stirred up a lot of issues with my post!!

It is a sad year for the 757. Now my concern is where the 767 will end up, the order book is low, and now the tanker decision is delayed. Someone said previously that the 762 has not been sold for a long time, well it will shortly be the last orders if nothing happens!

 
EAL757
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 9:46 pm

re: the design of the 737 being some 15 years older...when it comes to fuselage, it's even older than that. The 737 fuselage is essentially the same as the 707 isn't it? I don't think I'll ever get the 757's fate...if anything I would have scrapped the 737 line and created two shorter 757 variants to go at the Airbus. Geez, the A321 gets mistaken for the 75 all the time anyway; might as well use that get out of jail free card.

I think the 75 will always be my favorite--it's just a cool plane.

-Jeff
 
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 10:09 pm

Cloudy: " ... but the 7E7 program is the real reason it is going out of production."

You think so? I think the planes (757 and 767) will not be sold any longer - so they get out of production.
 
Greg
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 10:14 pm

Once again, I'll go by what Aviation Week and Flight International say long before I'll take the would of aviation 'enthusiasts' on a forum.

My original comments stand.

Thanks.
 
EAL757
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Wed May 12, 2004 10:14 pm

I just don't see the 7E7 as a true replacement for the 75 right now...I think they can co-exist in a fleet quite easily. Won't the 7E7 be very expensive anyway? It's much cheaper to acquire 75's right now I'd think (course not anymore now that production is closed)

-Jeff
 
Spacepope
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Thu May 13, 2004 2:54 am

Who really cares whether the 7e7 is a replacement or not? What I really want to know about this is:

Airframe c/n
Cycles
Hours
Corrosion problems?

There have been a few aircraft parts websites that have been advertising a soon to begin 757 parting out program, and I know some of the older 757s are creeping up on 80,000 airframe hours (which is what a few of the 762s are getting scrapped at.
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AirframeAS
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Thu May 13, 2004 3:17 am

Of all the commercial jets I have been on, the 757 seemed to land harder than the others. Maybe they were built for that. I always thought they had great legs.

This is why I called 'em: frog legs or chicken legs.  Big thumbs up


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mtkinf
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Thu May 13, 2004 3:25 am

Greg,

Throwing out some names of magazines does not automatically make any of your points more or less legitimate or correct.

As some have pointed out, the 757 will have been in production longer than the 727. This is a point that doesn't really need to be affirmed by a magazine to be correct. Websites of major manufacturers have a great deal of information regarding airliners, and the rest is often simple math.
 
Titch
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Fri May 14, 2004 5:44 pm

Just in case anybody was wondering about the identity of the 757 in question, it's being reported as EC-HQV (c/n 23118), ex-LTE/Volare, and had completed 61,585 hours and 23,113 cycles.


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CKT523
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Fri May 14, 2004 6:51 pm

when was this airframe delivered?
 
Titch
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Fri May 14, 2004 7:47 pm

I believe that it entered service with LTS as D-AMUR on May 25th 1984.
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col
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RE: First 757 To Be Broken Up

Fri May 14, 2004 8:00 pm

Titch,

Thanks for bringing some sense and reality back to this question.

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