qqflyboy
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:47 pm

FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Wed May 12, 2004 12:01 pm

According to today's Miami Herald, seven Congressional members sent a letter to AA CEO Gerard Arpey on May 4 urging him to increase flight attendant layover rest time. To see the letter, go to http://www.apfa.org. You'll find a link to the PDF version under Current Issues titled "DeFazio Fatigue Letter."

Flight attendants and flight attendant unions have long fought to have layover rest time increased. Although the FAA minimum of eight hours was rarely used in the past, it has become more and more common with airline CEOs attempting to save on cost. In addition to writing to Arpey, Congressional members are urging the FAA to review its policies and increase the minimum layover rest time as well.

Before our contract concessions at AA, we had a contractual minimum of eight hours behind the door, which meant we would be in our hotel room a minimum of eight hours. Now, the minimum rest time has been reduced to FAA minimum, which is simply eight hours. This means that from 15 minutes after our aircraft arrives at the gate we could have to be at the airport eight hours later, ultimately leaving four or five hours of sleep once you factor in transportation time to and from the hotel, time to eat and time to get dressed for the next day's assignment. Hopefully, this letter from Congress will not fall on deaf ears.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
qqflyboy
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:47 pm

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Thu May 13, 2004 5:54 am

Today, APFA, AFA and TWU are walking on Capital Hill to draw even more attention to the issues of rest time, as well as Congressionally mandated security training for flight attendants that the TSA has not yet discussed, although they've been ordered to on three occassions.

Here's part of the text from the press release at http://www.apfa.org:

"FT. WORTH, TEXAS (May 12, 2004)-The Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA), the certified bargaining representative for the 25,000 flight attendants at American Airlines, will join TWU Local 556, representing Southwest Airlines flight attendants, and AFA, representing United Airlines, U.S. Airways, Air Tran, and several regional carriers, today to conduct a joint event on the issue of security training and flight attendant fatigue. Each of the unions represented will march on Capitol Hill to present the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) with signed letters from their membership urging the agency to review the current safety and security training for flight attendants, and ensure that such training meets the criteria Congress supported in the Homeland Security Act and the Vision 100 Reauthorization bill."
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Thu May 13, 2004 11:47 pm

So FA should have more rest time than what surgical residents receive. I'm sure the jobs require similar levels of attention to detail.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 12:17 am

Only a sweat shop works these hours. N6376m, Walk in my shoes before you
make such a ignorant and arrogant statement.

All we want is at least 8 hours rest, is that so much to ask for? I think many people on here would not agree because they believe that the dumb,lazy,
uneducated Flight Attendants should not get anything. Why? Because many
hate this job, and think that it is way below them to be a Flight Attendant.
.
"The low fares airline."
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 12:55 am

AA767400 -

I'll gladly walk in your shoes if you'd walk in mine. I regularly get much less than 5 hours bed time let alone 8 hours between the time I leave the office and the time I come back. For 4 years I worked 80 to 90 hour weeks every week without ever taking a day of vacation. During certain extremely busy times I've slept on the floor of my office 2 and 3 times in a single week getting a couple hours of shut eye while I was waiting for a colleague to finish what they were doing.

So what? Does that make me better than you? No. I knew what I was getting myself into and did so willingly. How many times have you slept on the floor of your office?

You chose the job, and your employment is at will. If you don't like the working conditions then leave. But to run to Congress everytime you don't get what you want is absurd.

My comment is neither ignorant nor arrogant. I believe most flight attendants go to work and perform their duties well. Is it a job I'd like? Not particularly. But is your job the hardest in the world? Not by a long shot. I'm tired of some flight attendants acting like martyrs for doing their jobs.
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 1:09 am

Excellent! We need longer rest periods. I finished a four-day last night, with two ten hour layovers on the 2nd and 3rd nights, and my brain was oatmeal by the time I got home.

Travis
 
qqflyboy
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:47 pm

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 1:25 am

N6376m... I don't think anyone agrees that residents receive an adequate amount of rest. Its appalling. My sister-in-law is in her residency and we share similar sleep deprivation tales. It isn't safe for her and the patient she's working on, and it isn't safe for me as a flight attendant and you as a passenger.

The flight attendants have "run to Congress" because it is Congress who has the power to change a law they created. Increasing rest time in aviation is a matter of safety and therefore regulated by FARs. NASA has done extensive research into crew rest time and has concluded numerous times, along with the NTSB, that flight crews routinely receive inadequate rest. By the way, the flight attendant unions simply want the phrase "behind the door" added to the FAR. Sounds pretty simple to me. And besides, FAA minimum is actually nine hours, but can be reduced to eight. It's this flexibility the airlines recently have tried to exploit to lower costs. Safety is a cost you never want to see an airline reduce.

I used to be an associate producer at a TV station and on many occasions slept on the office floor during fire season. Hell, there was even a time when I spent an entire week at the station, not leaving it even once. I shed those walls for a job that provided more flexibility and opportunity. Clearly, by making the comments above, you do think you're above flight attendants or you wouldn't have felt compelled to share your story.

If you fly, which I am sure you do, then next time you get on one of those shiny tubes I suggest you thank the lowly flight attendants who showed up for work that day. Because if they didn't, you'd be grounded. Oh, and the comment, "If you don't like the working conditions then leave," is a tired one. Employees have a vested interest in their company just as the share holders do. As I wrote in a different post, I am American Airlines just as mush as Gerard Arpey, the CEO himself. I cannot and will not let one, or even several people, erode my sense of pride and responsibility to my company, or the eight years of stellar service I've provided them so far. I just wish they'd give me the same respect by offering adequate rest.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
B777FA
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:52 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 2:00 am

" I knew what I was getting myself into and did so willingly" wrote N6376m.


ExactlyYou did.,but when I started my job we were not given 8 hours rest in LHR/GIG/EZE/ORY or the caribbean.We were given adequate rest for the return.Its not about bitching just for the hell of it,Its about safety for our passengers as well as ourselves. It seems to a lot of us its only a matter of time before something happens due to this insane practice,god forbid a flight attendant is asleep on the jumpseat when a terrorist is walking up the aisle towards the cockpit or laying down in the last row while one is lighting another shoe bomb! once again we are not asking for 3 day layovers just enough time for us to be well rested.
 
nwacrew
Posts: 305
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:06 pm

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 2:27 am

N6376m:

Your rantings suggest certain unresolved personal issues. I'm not going to go there.

But remember next time you fly, that it's not only your cabin crew who may be groggy from lack of sleep; your pilots may have had the same, too short layover as the flight attendants...

 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 2:46 am

NWACrew,

While I may be extremely concerned that the flight crew have gotten adequate rest the night before, I won't loose a moments sleep worrying whether the FA are well rested.

Though in the event of an emergency, the FA can play an important role in helping evacuate a plane, the statistical probability of an emergency are few and far between. How many emergency evacuations of aircraft occurred last year? How many flights flew? You do the math.

When I travel, I take care of myself. I carry my own smoke hood and know the exact location of all the exits on the aircraft. I make sure that I'm aware of the exact number of rows between my seat and each of the two closest exits. Anyone who leaves their survival up to the possibility of a twenty something FA is crazy. Though there are certainly more experience FA's on many aircraft today, the extend that they regularly have exert themselves while I'm on board is getting me a bottle of water. So I don't think that FA rest is a matter of national importance warranting Congressional action.

For those of you who feel that you were sold a bill of goods, quit. Go find another job that allows you 8 hours of bed time a night. I bet you'll find that there are a hell of a lot mission critical jobs that provide the employee a lot less rest than that.

As for me and my unresolved personal issues, you couldn't be farther from the truth. I look back extremely fondly at my time in consulting. If my family wasn't the most important thing in my life right now, I'd go back to it in a second. That's the difference between you and me. I love what I do (did) and dealt with the inconveniences. You want all the benefits of being a FA but none of the crap that it brings with it.

The only reason I detailed my past is that I'm tired of people whose salaries I pay always acting as they're doing me a favor when they're doing their job.

The incessant winnings about we don't get enough rest and it's a safety issue needs to end once and for all. Can you point to a single documented case that a person died because of FA fatigue?

Keep up your whinnying but don't wonder why your employers will eventually push for Congress to allow foreign workers to fill your positions the way the cruise lines do.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 2:53 am

@Aa767400
"Only a sweat shop works these hours. N6376m, Walk in my shoes before you
make such a ignorant and arrogant statement."

Oh goodie... you made just as much of an ignorant statement as you allege that N6376M made. That must be part of the problem is that you (I assume a FA) think that NO ONE else could POSSIBLY have it as bad as you do! How ridiculous is that?

Hell, I worked on a contract a few years ago where I was putting in 50-60 hours in 5 days working overnight replacing computer systems in banks. Add sometimes 10 hours of "windshield time" on that getting to the job site in another state and you may get a few hours of sleep a night - on the floor of the bank waking up every hour to see if the installation is running fine. I did that for 8 months - and then had to drive myself hundreds of miles BACK home with little or no sleep. No one on MY team has gone whining to Congress about it.

Sure, you guys may have it tough... but don't say something ludicrous about you having the worst of it or working "sweat shop" hours.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
Braniff727
Posts: 656
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 2:25 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 am

Well I am not, nor have I ever been a flight attendant.

BEGIN RANT

I cannot speak to minimum rest because I get plenty from day to day, but I can see how being on a 5 day trip, with 4 to 5 legs a day and only having a few hours of sleep can be detrimental, especially when dealing with the "I pay your salary" crowd.

While some may have a smoke hood and know where the exits are, it's the flight attendants who are going to provide much better survival help than your hood. They are the ones that are communicating with the flight deck, they are the ones making sure there aren't any loose objects in the cabin that could become a dangerous flying object on impact.

Personally, if I'm ever in a situation like that you had better believe that you are going to want well rested, alert flight attendants. Yes, it's rare that something like that happens, but there are so many more things that they need to be alert and ready for.

So thank your flight attendants for being in an ever-increasing, thankless job. Thank them for putting up with attitudes that most people wouldn't. And when remember what your mother taught you, think about what you are going to say to someone, and think if you would appreciate someone taking that tone with you.

END RANT
Climbing
 
qqflyboy
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:47 pm

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 3:25 am

Innocuous Fox... I generally am accustomed to more intelligent responses from you. Why are you and N6376m making a fuss over the "whining to congress" bit? As I stated above, crew rest is legislated. It's federal law. When Senator DeFazio and six other senators sent this letter to Gerard Aprey, they clearly pointed out the intention and limitations of the law were tested in a way that wasn't forseen, and hasn't occurred, in the past. They've realized their own rulemaking is flawed, and is asking the company to change its practices while it works to change the law. They've determined the minimums they put forth as law are not adequate and are working to change them. Who else would flight attendants seek help from? I can't blame the airlines for exploiting the inadequacy of the current law, but I can seek Congressional help to change the inadequate law they created. And by Senator DeFazio's (and the six other Congressman who signed it) letter, they agree.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 3:33 am

Qqflyboy. How's the rule making flawed? Again I ask, name for me a single documented incident where FA rest (or lack thereof) resulted in serious injury or death? Whether we like it or not every piece of legislation needs to be analyzed from a cost benefit perspective. If you can't point to a single documented incident that additonal rest could have prevented, the benefit side of the equation is zero.

Given the financial condition of the industry, how can FA in good faith look to increase costs with no demonstrable benefit to anyone other than themselves? So you can claim that it does impact safety, but until you can show me how it HAS impacted safety, I'll continue to oppose Congressional action.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 3:38 am

Foxy I was just making a point, not comparing exactly. Once again to all, fly
in my shoes before you comment about your 50-60 hour whatever. You have to go to congress because the airline sure will not do anything about it. And
you people have to remember that those 50-60 hours were all on the freaking ground, and not up at 34,000ft. With, yes the" I paid for your salary and have
my own hood" freaks on the plane.
"The low fares airline."
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 3:42 am

My only point was how fantastically ironic it was that Aa767400 made exactly the same mistake that N6376m made in assuming that they had it worse than anyone else could possibly have it.

As an addendum, "whining to Congress" is more of a statement against the Government over-legislating situations than it is about the current argument. If working conditions are so bad, then there would be less FAs. If they had a hard time finding FAs that would work in those conditions, then they airlines would change the rules. It's 'supply and demand' as applied to the workplace - no Government Messiah intervention needed.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 3:45 am

foxy! One more freaking time. It was a exaggeration! Get over it!
"The low fares airline."
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 3:46 am

And we on the ground have to deal with the:

1. I'm a smoker and will smoke here crowd (not many of those on a plane);

2. Cell phone users who think it's okay for them to carry on a conversation whenever they want (not many of those on a plane);

3. Hurry up because I need to get to work so I should be able to cut through the security line (when I travel for work I don't get to cut in line, I show up earlier).

Yet nobody has yet offered a single documented case of the terrible safety effects of FA rest times being so short. Instead they've tried to attack me for asking the question and questioning the motive.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 3:53 am

"And you people have to remember that those 50-60 hours were all on the freaking ground, and not up at 34,000ft. "

Unless you were flapping your arms to stay up there, that is largely irrelevant.

"foxy! One more freaking time. It was a exaggeration! Get over it!"

Look at the post times... I was writing my response before you posted your "first time." Also, if you exaggerate without indication, don't be surprised when people take you at your word.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 3:57 am

N6376m, You have proved that you feel you are above Flight Attendants. You
have made statements that prove it. And you also have a age problem, saying
that you do not want to leave it up to a twenty something Flight Attendant.
And the "I bring my own mask. Thank you!" comment was classic. Only, and only a real winner would bring their own mask. And admit it!And you my friend, are a real winner. But do me a favor, and next time you fly on a plane and I am so tired I have to take a nap in the last row, don't wake me up for a drink.  Big grin
"The low fares airline."
 
qqflyboy
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:47 pm

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 4:08 am

N6376m...Do you work for the FAA? That's just the mentality they like to have. First, they have to count all the dead bodies and bent airlpanes before they decide to push forward known safety improvements that could have prevented such disasters. You, as a passenger, have a flawed mentality. How would you like to be the passenger that is severely injured or even killed because a flight attendant didn't get adequate rest the night before. You'd become a statistic for the FAA, and, after enough N6376m's die in such a situation, they'll change the rules and improve the margin of safety. Wouldn't you rather know your safety was put first, rather than collecting data so they could determine if the amount of death warrants a change in law?
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 4:08 am

Foxy, it is about time you get a sense of humor. And you are so right, it would be very hard to flap my arms up at 34,000ft. And it is not irrelevant, do to the fact that it is up at 34,000ft, where it is not a level floor in Nebraska.
"The low fares airline."
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 4:12 am

AA767400 proves my point, the paying passenger is the inconvenience in the eyes of this FA. Furthermore, by again attacking me instead of addressing the substance you showed your hand, again I ask, name for me one single documented case where FA rest was a contributing factor in the death or serious injury of a passenger.

As for me feeling that I'm above flight attendants, nothing could be further from the truth. I've said that we all have to deal with difficult work situations and time demands that limit our rest. You're the one arguing that your work is so much more important that congressional action is necessary to safeguard lives and the traveling public.

And honey, if you're in the last row, I won't ever see you.  Big grin (busting my ass has allowed me to sit in the front of the plane). So when you're coming through the front of the bus, do me a favor and try not to wake me.

By the way, if you're so tired all the time, shouldn't you be sleeping?

[Edited 2004-05-13 21:24:20]
 
B777FA
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:52 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 4:24 am

And we on the ground have to deal with the:

1. I'm a smoker and will smoke here crowd (not many of those on a plane);

within the last 2 months I've had 3 passengers smoking in the Lav.One flushed the butt down the toilet and the other 2 threw them in the trash bin (compromising pax safety). I was the only F/A awake..but what if I was asleep in my seat while supervising my cabin??

Nothing has happened YET but its just a matter of time.

2. Cell phone users who think it's okay for them to carry on a conversation whenever they want (not many of those on a plane);

Couldnt be further from the truth!!!! Lets see Ive had passengers on phones during Taxi out and even phones ringing on approach while we are in the air still!


In regards to in flight service also..A lot of members on here slam the US F/As when comparing to Asian/European F/As.Comments like Grumpy/rude/snappy come up...ever wonder why??? Just ask the Asain and European crews if they get 8 hours from the time the plane lands to the time it takes off again after flying a 7-9 hour international flight or 13 hour duty day.

Luckily I have the option now of not flying these trips because of my seniority.I can fly the trips with 24 hour layovers and show up the next day to work well rested like it used to be,BUT thats not the case for F/As that are on reserve and have hardly any seniority.
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 4:26 am

B777fa -

So the grumpy ones (because of lack of sleep caused by their lack of senority) are the 20 something ones I referred to above?
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 4:27 am

N6376m, Of course you would say that proves your point. You think that it is a
inconvenience for me from the get go. Even with me having to say that last comment. And you won't see me in Bitter class because of people like you. And to answer your question, NO. But I will stay with my job and get my short
sleeping time, because in the long run, Money talks and bull$%!* walks.
"The low fares airline."
 
B777FA
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:52 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 4:29 am

Depends where you are based...You could have a 30 year F/A based at DFW on a reserve trip flying a EZE layover with 10hours from the time the plane lands to takeoff.In DFW-I the reserve is about 25-30 years seniority. At my base its 15 years.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 4:33 am

B777fa, What do you fly mostly? I am on reserve this month, which gives me
a lot of time on here.  Smile
"The low fares airline."
 
B777FA
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:52 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 4:34 am

Usually LHR with a 23+ hour layover...flights 132 and 105
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 4:44 am

Money talks and bull$hit walks - well I've got no complaint about what I'm making which doesn't seem the case with AA FA's. Therefore I guess I agree with you that bull$hit walks!

Now go to bed lest someone get injured because of your lack of sleep. Stockpile it now during your "month on reserve" for those times that you only get 5 to 8 hours of rest.

Funny, most people never get a month on reserve.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 4:52 am

N6376m, I guess some of us are lucky.  Big grin I never said someone would get injured because of my lack of sleep. That was a statement that someone else
made on here. I am not looking for special treatment. If you don't agree with that, then that's fine. And now I have to go eat something, because all this
rage needs to be kept up.
"The low fares airline."
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 4:54 am

So at the end of the day you support Congressional action just because you want more sleep. Why should Congress protect your sleep and not everyone elses?

Well while you're up on the hill how about we get Congress to require nicer FA!
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 5:07 am

There you go! That is your problem. You want a nicer Flight Attendant. See, I
knew there had to be something you had against us. A nicer Flight Attendant!
That my friend is the biggest goal any airline could ever have. Heck even the best airlines in the world have not yet met this goal. Why? Because there will
always be someone who is not happy with their job,life,....Etc. At the end of the day I just want to people to lay off on why I want 8 hours of sleep on my
layover.
"The low fares airline."
 
N6376M
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:54 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 5:32 am

What's wrong with the customer saying they want a nicer flight attendant?

-76M
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 5:38 am

Absolutely nothing . Smile
"The low fares airline."
 
B777FA
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:52 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 5:49 am

What's wrong with the customer saying they want a nicer flight attendant?



Absolutly nothing!................Isnt it kind of basic to see that when you work a flight say from JFK-LHR ( 6 hours flight time and 5 hours time change), full flight and you only get 5 hours sleep before working back to JFK ,again going through all the time changes) that you arent going to be the most energetic person to interact with passengers etc?

I guess unless you are in our shoes you couldn't possibly understand (no offense)  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

The DFW crews have a 10 hour layover in EZE from the time they land to the time they depart...the flight is 9+ hours ,by the time you get to the hotel after working all night you will get 6 hours sleep.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 5:56 am

So complain to your company and/or quit. If enough people do it, the airlines will change. Leave freakin' Congress out of it.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 6:00 am

I know that 777fa. But most of the general public don't. And that is never going to change. I have been on this forum since 2000, and I always get the same kind of opinion on Flight Attendants. By the way, You know we most like have flown together. I do LHR all the time.
"The low fares airline."
 
B777FA
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:52 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 6:21 am

F/As have gone to their respective companies and it falls on deaf ears thats the reason why they are going now to congress because they are the ones that can change this archaic "8 hour rest rule" .
The airlines never used this 8 hour behind the door during many times when the airlines were bleeding money and facing bankrupcy (even during the gulf war).
You act like we are asking for 4-5 days layover for christsakes.THATS NOT THE SITUATION. Just enough rest to where we can perform to our best and give the best possible service whilst ensuring safety.

Like I said you wouldn't understand and will never understand unless you are in the industry and have been there!

 
146crew
Posts: 176
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:29 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 6:23 am

-N6376M

To answer your question about how many emergency evacuations occured last year....

2003

1/16/03 Continental Express ERJ-145LR N16571 over ran runway at Cleveland, OH 47pax uninjured in evac
1/17/03 TAME Flight 120 F-28 HC-BMD aborted takeoff 2 Serious injured, 74 no injuries
3/26/03 airTran Airways Flight 356 B717-200 N957AT 1 Serious Injury, 22 Minor Injuries, 60 No injuries
4/16/03 American Airlines Flight 2439 MD-82 N452AA Smoke in cabin, 1 Serious Injury, 49 No Injuries
6/23/03 Delta Airlines Flight 1036 Boeing 757-232 N633DL 2 Serious Injuries, 31 Minor Injuries, 141 No Injuries
9/25/03 American Airlines Flight 1128 MD-82 Smoke/Fumes in Cabin, 8 Minor Injuries, 86 No Injures

And the year Before....

2002

1/14/02 Lion Airlines Boieng 737-200 PK-LID Overshot runway, 7 Minor Injuries, 96 Uninjured2/28/02 Northwest Airlines FLight 1118 DC-9-41 N754NW Engine Fire on pushback from Indianapolis, IN 1 Serious Injury, 74 No Injuries
3/31/02 Delta Airlines MD-11 N809DE 5 Serious Injuries, 11 Minor Injuries, 229 Uninjured
6/2/02 Atlantic Southeast Airlines Flight 4509 CRJ-200 N849AS Gear Collapse 50 Passengers uninjured
8/11/02 Iberia Airlines Boeing 747-256 EC-DNP Engine Fire on takeoff from JFk
2 Serious Injuries, 35 Minor Injuries, 349 Uninjured
8/28/02 America West Airlines A320-231 N635AW Nose Gear Collapse. 1 Serious Injury, 9 Minor Injuries, 149 No Injuries
11/9/02 American Airlines MD-82 N452AA Smoke in Cabin. 1 Serious Injury, 6 Minor Injuries, 72 No Injuries.

These are just the evacuations in the USA NTSB Database. I'm sure there are many more in other coutries.

There could have been more injuries in these evacuations without flight attendants instructing passengers how to go down the slides, and taking charge and control of the situation. How a flight attendant performs in an emergency situation is very dependant not just on their training, but how rested they are and their energey level.
Cross check complete.
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 6:34 am

"You act like we are asking for 4-5 days layover for christsakes."

Excuse me? Point to one place in this thread where I claimed that you had no complaint. The first thing I disagreed with was Aa767400's foolish statement about sweatshop labor that no one else could possibly understand. The second gripe I had is that it is not necessarily a Congressional-level issue. Therefore, I am not "acting" anything like what you claim.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
B777FA
Posts: 235
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:52 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 6:40 am

In my response above I stated the reason why we are going to Congress.This 8 hour rule can only be chaged my them....Many F/As have compained to their comapnies and the FAA, documenting their experiences with fatigue on Short layovers but to no avail.

Also Im sorry for jumping on you....for that my apologies  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 6:48 am

No one else responded, so obviously YOU were the only one that did not understand that is was a exaggeration. So, your assumption is foolish.
"The low fares airline."
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 7:15 am

"Walk in my shoes before you make such a ignorant and arrogant statement."

What did I misunderstand about that?
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
nyskymasters
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:41 pm

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 7:25 am

First and foremost I have to ask WHY everybody is feeding N6376m. If you look at his profile he is an executive. That explains why he spouts ignorant statements. But since everybody else is I will as well.

N6376m, send me your address. I will send you some reports on crew fatigue being a contributing factor to an accident. That is "crew fatigue." That means the entire crew.

Surgical residents stay in one time zone when on call. And if I am not wrong they also get sleep quarters while being on call. FA's get to constantly walk the aisle monitoring the cabin for safety issues, watching out for manic passengers that like to light the fuse in their shoes, and if that was not enough they also get to put up with "executives" like yourself that are sure to let everybody know that they sit up front. Fortunately, we the crews know that the true professionals are calm and respectful.

You mentioned that you wouldn't have to rely on a flight attendant in an emergency due to the fact that you bring your own smoke hood, etc, etc. But what about all the other passengers that are not as prepared as you. That comment you made seems rather self centered.

As to the comment about you wanting to oppose legislation I have to ask...why? The supposed legislation would be to increase safety. Perhaps we should introduce new legislation regarding executive bonuses and perks that sometimes reach 500% of the average worker. Seems like the better money would be spent on the safety issue.

And finally, reread you response in in number 9. If you are an executive for one of a few companies that I have to do business with I can then understand why I have so many problems with those companies.

Now that I fell into the trap of "exciting" you with a response I will now quit.

Oh, and by the way, if it really came down to it I would very much appreciate a properly RESTED crew...emergency or not.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 7:34 am

That statement was made towards 6376m. Which he is making on fact based
on his opinion. I was making a statement that was a exaggeration about the rest time. I don't think we have sweat shop hours, but you seem to think that
I was not exaggerating and feel that it was the truth based on my opinion. I
also think that you are very much looking to win an argument no matter what I
say. I guess there is not much to do in the corn fields today.  Smile
"The low fares airline."
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 7:40 am

"If you look at his profile he is an executive. That explains why he spouts ignorant statements."

Fantastic! Blanket statements, overbroad assumptions, and shotgun insults for everyone! Gee, why don't we just paint all pilots with one brush, all FAs with another brush, all passengers with yet a third and dispense with actually having to look at people as individuals and just assume they have certain traits based on their job description.

What a blatantly foolish assumption that is. Certainly, based on your self-description of being a "pilot & FA", you wouldn't want us to assume that "because you are a pilot & FA, you must be cheating on your spouse on all layovers."

I'm not defending what he says - nor have I really taken much of a side in this discussion as to whether crews are overworked, 'underslept', or whatever... but many of you aren't looking terribly smart in the equally rediculous fingers you are pointing at each other.

Just as a final note on "executives"... you may want to ponder the following: without some form of "executives", no one would freakin' start companies in the first place! And if they all were well versed in spouting ignorant statements as you claim, none of these companies would be remotely sucessful. You would have a hard time flying or attending flights if there was no one buying the damn planes for you.

Gawd... the narcissism that is rampant around here!  Insane
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 7:44 am

"I guess there is not much to do in the corn fields today."

Wow... more ignorant insults. For someone as well travelled as you surely must be, you would realize that Omaha is far more high-tech than a good chunk of the nation. Not to mention we have more millionares per capita than just about any city in the US.

(Oh... and quit hitting in your posts unless it's a paragraph... this isn't the age of typewritters. It's miserable to read.)

[Edited 2004-05-14 00:46:05]
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 8:52 am

Well you are just going to have to deal with it! As far as I am concerned, you
think you are a rich and live Monte Carlo. I really don't care if you think my insults are ignorant. Omaha has nothing next to New York City. Tell a seasoned
traveler that Omaha is rich and high-tech, and they will say "so?".
"The low fares airline."
 
Blackbird1331
Posts: 1740
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:47 am

RE: FAs Get Congressional Help On Rest

Fri May 14, 2004 9:39 am

I must admit that I did not read every post, but i was convinced that this thred is split in two. The FAs and the "others". I think the FAs should take some sleeping pills and the "others" should take some Valium. Then, call me in the morning.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.