MAH4546
Topic Author
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Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Thu May 13, 2004 8:19 am

Effective 4 September 2004, Delta Connection carrier Comair will start service between Cincinnati and Montego Bay, pending final government approval. Service will operate on Saturdays with a CRJ-700.

Docket:
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.cfm?documentid=280721&docketid=17800
a.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Thu May 13, 2004 8:55 am

MAH, I was just reading that one also. Interesting read.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
mats
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Thu May 13, 2004 10:04 am

How much overwater flying is required for a Mainland-Jamaica flight?

Does the CRJ-700 have the overwater equipment required for such a flight?

Above all, I'd hate to be trapped in a CRJ for such a long trip!
 
N6376M
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Thu May 13, 2004 10:07 am

Does anyone know how long that trip is?
 
smcmac32msn
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Thu May 13, 2004 10:16 am

I hope this flight is out of ATL or MCO. If its out of CVG, I'm never flying DL to Montego Bay!
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Thu May 13, 2004 10:21 am

Yes, the flight will be from CVG, Saturday only, if granted.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
WidgetBoi
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Thu May 13, 2004 10:21 am

While it may be a long flight, it's better than nothing!

jeremy
 
DeltaRules
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Thu May 13, 2004 10:21 am

Good God....that'd be one long flight, made worse by the fact that it's on a CRJ for that long! Can Delta make any money with this?

...and I complained about taking a JM MD-80 MBJ-ATL a few years ago.  Insane

DeltaRules
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chepos
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Thu May 13, 2004 10:23 am

Smcmmac the flight is out of CVG (with the CRJ), out of ATL DL flies the 738 and codeshares with JM who operates the route with a 320. RJ flights just keep on getting longer and longer.
Chepos
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smcmac32msn
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Thu May 13, 2004 10:29 am

Geezus... And I thought my CRJ flights from CVG to HSV and all the way back to MSN via CVG were long. I hope they make those seats more comfortable for the people going all the way there. I'm never going to MBJ via CVG!
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
scottysair
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Thu May 13, 2004 11:47 pm

Very nice to hear for more new international flight to MBJ and it is competition of ATL-MBJ already. What are you think about all of those CRJ-700 make to MBJ?
 
richierich
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 12:23 am

How long of a flight is that?
None shall pass!!!!
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 12:34 am

"How long of a flight is that?"

----------------------------------

1472 miles/ 1279 nm. I would say 3-1/2 to 3-3/4 hours gate to gate would be a good guess.

EWR-MBJ is 1342 nm (63 nm further) and is blocked 3 hours 59 minutes.
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
scottysair
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 12:51 am

This is not long flight from CVG-MBJ.
 
WidgetBoi
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 12:55 am

Does anyone know if Air Jamaica intends to put their code on the flight?

jeremy
 
AA623BDLSJU
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 1:02 am

I am surprised myself when I saw it on the website. I cannot believe that they've actually going to do CVG-MBJ. Much luck on that route.

I can't say that I never going to fly that route, but one never ever really knows.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 1:08 am

Airlines are really testing the limits of the regional jets.....the question is do passengers mind? I think that a 4 hour flight on an RJ is a very long, but if the average passenger has no problem with it, then the airlines will continue to try flights like this, I guess that the average passenger would rather sit 4 hours in a small airliner on a nonstop flight than connect via a hub - especially large crowded hubs like ATL or MIA.

And some members here complain about a transcon on a 757 or transatlantic on CO with a 757! Which is better, 4 hours on a CRJ or 6 hours on a 757? Times are changing.
 
CincyBaseFA
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 2:03 am

I'm a flight attendant for Delta's Regional jets at Comair. For the most part, all the passengers seem to be very happy even on long flights. There are not as many so I can be more personable with them, and they really enjoy it. We usually get to do 2 beverage services. BTW we don't have life rafts on board (somebody asked that question on here way above) I hear that on our 70 seater we are soon to get the Entertainment Thing (Delta Horizon) I think that would be nice. Also have heard we will be serving a bit more than just snacks on longer flights. People really don't seem to mind our regionals. I've heard that some people like our service better because it's more personalized. and passengers love how we can board to the last second on our smaller jets.
 
WidgetBoi
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 2:16 am

Does Comair's CRJ-700s have leather seats?

jeremy
 
scottysair
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 3:27 am

Yes, they have with leather seats into the CRJ.
 
WidgetBoi
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 3:48 am

Thanks man!

jeremy
 
scottysair
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 4:46 am

You welcome, Jeremy!!  Smile
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 4:56 am

CincybaseFA,

Do you at least have buy-on-board food available for those flights? I wouldn't think twice about hopping a CRJ for that flight, but would appreciate something to nibble!
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
scottysair
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 4:58 am

I am not sure about buy-on-boards with their flight to MBJ. You can probably will find out about them.
 
CincyBaseFA
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 7:17 am

No, we don't have buy on board food right now, I think if we ever did it would just be better snacks and maybe some sandwiches. we'll see what happens. But I here Mcdonalds in the concourse have EXCELLENT burgers. LOL just kidding thats not funny actually  Big grin
 
WidgetBoi
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 7:25 am

It was kinda funny.

jeremy
 
scottysair
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 7:33 am

Yes, I remember about McDonalds in concourse C and when I was flew out of CVG-MHT back of January 2001.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 7:35 am

A few months ago there was a post about this for Comair operating CVG-CUN (daily) and replacing the Saturday only DL CVG-CUN.

Instead this route is now 3x weekly on a 737-800 through March 2005.

Don't eat everything you read.
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MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 9:34 am

A few months ago there was a post about this for Comair operating CVG-CUN (daily) and replacing the Saturday only DL CVG-CUN.

Instead this route is now 3x weekly on a 737-800 through March 2005.

Don't eat everything you read.


Plans change. That's what happened with Delta/Comair on CVG-CUN. Though that does not mean that they will change for CVG-MBJ. The current plan is for Saturday CRJ-700 service on the route. Comair is asking for the authority, not Delta. So if Comair gets the authority, they can't switch it to mainline without Delta applying seperately. In the case of CVG-CUN, Delta already had the authority, Comair was just asking for it as well.
a.
 
scottysair
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 9:51 am

Is that still anything else about CUN or MBJ flight and will get with those load factors later into the months and will do well for them.
 
DeltaRules
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 10:39 am

I hear that on our 70 seater we are soon to get the Entertainment Thing (Delta Horizon)

Wow! That'd be pretty cool! A CRJ-700 with IFE, especially on that route, would really make the flight more tolerable.

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rockyracoon
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 10:42 am

Cool another international flight for CVG  Smile



peace
 
A330323X
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 10:45 am

Plans change. That's what happened with Delta/Comair on CVG-CUN. Though that does not mean that they will change for CVG-MBJ. The current plan is for Saturday CRJ-700 service on the route. Comair is asking for the authority, not Delta. So if Comair gets the authority, they can't switch it to mainline without Delta applying seperately. In the case of CVG-CUN, Delta already had the authority, Comair was just asking for it as well.

Delta doesn't already have broad U.S.-Jamaica authority? Not that it would be anything more than a formality applying for the authority, since the U.S. and Jamaica now have open skies. (US Airways, for one, already has broad all-points U.S.-Jamaica authority. So does Air Jamaica, for that matter.)
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
EAL1011500
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 11:41 am

RJs...god help us. Last year I took an ATL-MBJ flight on an Air Jamaica A310. $50 first class upgrade, and probably my first and list time on that type. Throw in the Red Stripe and it really cant get much better!
 
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mariner
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 12:30 pm

"In the case of CVG-CUN, Delta already had the authority, Comair was just asking for it as well."

If that is true, I wonder why? If Delta has the authority and Comair flies Delta Express as a contract with Delta, why does Comair need a seperate authority?

This happened when HP applied for LAX/MZT, to be flown as HP Express by Mesa.

UAL protested, and I agree with them.

Under the US/Mexico bilateral only two airlines from each country can serve any city pair between the two countries.

So if both Delta and Comair have CVG/CUN (or HP/Mesa has LAX/MZT) no other US airline can fly the route. Now, I doubt many would want to, but the point is that if it can happen on one city pair, it can happen on any city pair.

This is screwing with the bilateral agreement.

Either Delta Express is Delta or it isn't.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
A330323X
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 12:33 pm

UAL protested, and I agree with them.

The DOT does not agree.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
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mariner
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 12:38 pm

Actually, the DOT did agree.

The route was awarded, but even though it is to be flown by Mesa, the authority is vested in HP, not in Mesa.

Mesa flies the route on behalf of HP.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
nycfuturepilot
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 12:41 pm

RJs are not that bad! Yes, it sucks when you have to board them or get out of your seat but once you are settled in it is not much different.
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
A330323X
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Fri May 14, 2004 1:01 pm

Actually, the DOT did agree.

The route was awarded, but even though it is to be flown by Mesa, the authority is vested in HP, not in Mesa.


You're wrong. The docket is at http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchResultsSimple.cfm?numberValue=16444&searchType=docket.

From the DOT decision:

"Under the U.S.-Mexico aviation agreement, up to two U.S. carriers may be designated to operate direct-carrier service in a given city-pair market. Mesa needs a designation for the services proposed here."

[...]

"With respect to United, we appreciate the concerns raised here regarding the use of two designations for affiliated carrier services in U.S.-Mexico markets. Indeed, we have sought Mexican aviation authorities acceptance of such services without the need for separate designations. However, such an arrangement has not been forthcoming. We will continue our efforts in this regard. However, under the circumstances, we believe that the public interest is best served by granting the requested authority here for the proposed services while we continue to work on this issue with the Mexican aviation authorities."
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
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mariner
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RE: Delta Connection To Start MBJ Service

Sat May 15, 2004 1:11 am

Yes, I was wrong when I said that Mesa had not been given the authority, a misreading on my part.

But - you said (reply #35) - "the DOT does not agree."

The whole tenor of the DOT's reply indicates that they do agree - that they "have sought acceptance of such services.." but that "such an arrangement has not been forthcoming..."

That the DOT understands that "the two different airline" concept of the bilateral is challenged - why else would they seek an acceptance by Mexico of such services?

That in the case you cite (PVR, not MZT), Alaska's dormant authority had to be taken away before the America West/Mesa approval was granted.

Which is my central point - it is against the essental spirit of the bilateral that one US airline can, through the use of express carriers, get a monopolistic lock on a US/Mexico route.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta

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